Goalies make crap managers, apparently.

[Darren]

I think most United fans would have thought an away draw was a good result against a newly relegated teams with some decent players. I certainly don't recall any expectation that Birmingham were "there for the taking" and that we should win easily.
United played 4-5-1 with Henderson up front on his own and Cotterill on the bench. We spent most of the afternoon lumping the ball towards Henderson, who had a bad game. We only showed ambition when we went one down, at which point I think Stead came on and managed to hit the post in the little time there was left.

This pattern was repeated in many away games: grind and hope for a breakaway. In fact, one of the reasons why we improved was that after we fell out of the top 6 in February Cotterill was given his place back, and more of a free reign, and for the first time that season we attacked a bit more away from home, and played some good football (Reading away, Preston in playoffs). Of course, he was dropped for the Burnley away game and we reverted to type, and lost 1-0, and Blackwell showed about a month later that he had no answer to the might of Burnley.

There were some good things - the defence was great, for example. But that was a missed opportunity, again.

Like 1985-6, that season looks a lot better statistically than if you experienced it live, so to speak.

I don't recall Stead hitting the post., The Birmingham goal came in literally the 5th or 6th minute of injury time and there was little to do other than for us to kick off. Stead had come on quite some time before the goal.

Also Sharp started that game. Did we really play him in midfield?

NB: I tried to find a report on the game, but our newly even crapper website means you can't find past season reports there.

 

[Revolution]

I don't recall Stead hitting the post., The Birmingham goal came in literally the 5th or 6th minute of injury time and there was little to do other than for us to kick off. Stead had come on quite some time before the goal.

Also Sharp started that game. Did we really play him in midfield?

NB: I tried to find a report on the game, but our newly even crapper website means you can't find past season reports there.

Well, you have forgotten it then, because he did. He cam down the left wind and put in a cross-shot that hit the outside of the post and went out for a goalkick.

Sharp may have been on the field - fine - but he sure as hell didn't get the ball.

 

[Darren]

Well, you have forgotten it then, because he did. He cam down the left wind and put in a cross-shot that hit the outside of the post and went out for a goalkick.

Sharp may have been on the field - fine - but he sure as hell didn't get the ball.

Now you mention it, there is something stirring in my memory about that post incident, but it wasn't the sort of - oh my God that was close - type of hitting the post, it was the - hitting the outside of the post, it might as well have been the side netting, not troubling the goalie - type of hitting the post.

Anyway, the fact that we started with Sharp and brought on Stead (and Webber) before we went 1-0 down does somewhat counter the argument that we were not interested in winning the game.

 

[Darren]

Would we agree that Blackwell was our best post Warnock manager (admittedly the competition is not exactly stiff)? My ranking would be:

1. Blackwell
2. Wilson
3. Speed
4. Adams
5. Robson

The hardest choice was between 4 and 5, but I think Robson just shades it, given the resources he had.

 

[Grecian2000]

Would we agree that Blackwell was our best post Warnock manager (admittedly the competition is not exactly stiff)? My ranking would be:

1. Blackwell
2. Wilson
3. Speed
4. Adams
5. Robson

The hardest choice was between 4 and 5, but I think Robson just shades it, given the resources he had.

Yes and no.

1. Bold Blackwell (Caretaker Feb - May '08)
2. Wilson
3. Speed
4. Adams
5. Bollockless Blackwell (after being given the job full time)
6. Robson

Very much in the mould of Howard Kendall. No fear whilst in charge of someone else's team, fearful and timid when faced with taking the responsibility for his own. Obviously in HK's case there were well known outside issues at play.

 

[JohnDenver]

Would we agree that Blackwell was our best post Warnock manager (admittedly the competition is not exactly stiff)? My ranking would be:

1. Blackwell
2. Wilson
3. Speed
4. Adams
5. Robson

The hardest choice was between 4 and 5, but I think Robson just shades it, given the resources he had.

Wilson has to be ahead of Blackwell. He's actually had to implement an affordable budget, whereas Blackwell spent big to the very end. Granted that might be Birch's fault, but I'm pretty sure Birch didn't recruit Niron Nosworthy....

 

[Darren]

Yes and no.

1. Bold Blackwell (Caretaker Feb - May '08)
2. Wilson
3. Speed
4. Adams
5. Bollockless Blackwell (after being given the job full time)
6. Robson

Very much in the mould of Howard Kendall. No fear whilst in charge of someone else's team, fearful and timid when faced with taking the responsibility for his own. Obviously in HK's case there were well known outside issues at play.

I have to say I don't see your cut off point with Blackwell as being summer 08. If there is one, it seems to me, it must be summer 09. Play off final apart, I recall 08-09 as an entertaining season with some great performances - Charlton A. Reading A, Derby H for example - maybe losing twice to Wednesday and that costing us promotion has soured things

 

[Darren]

Wilson has to be ahead of Blackwell. He's actually had to implement an affordable budget, whereas Blackwell spent big to the very end. Granted that might be Birch's fault, but I'm pretty sure Birch didn't recruit Niron Nosworthy....

Blackwell didn't spend that big after 2008, from then, I would bet a pretty large amount that we made a net profit on transfers under Blackwell.

On Wilson, he certainly did not have an affordable budget (by third division standards) last season and he still didn't get us promoted. This season, despite an "afoordable" budget but with resources far and away above those of our rivals, he is struggling to stay in promotion contention. He is also, obviously, managing at a lower level than Blackwell.

 

[JohnDenver]

Blackwell didn't spend that big after 2008, from then, I would bet a pretty large amount that we made a net profit on transfers under Blackwell.

I'm looking at the budget overall - wages and transfers. Both will have net sales to their name. In fact, Robbo must be the only manager in my lifetime who doesn't!

But anyway... Wilson had one season with an inflated wage bill (the corollory being it was an inherited squad), and one half season with an absolute ground-zero wage bill following an unprecedented wage bill drop and cull of talent. That it remained high for the division doesn't alter the fact it plummeted and brought huge disruption.

On to Blackwell.... he was still spaffing money on loans and crazy wages after we lost at Wembley. If Blackwell/Birch had grasped the nettle of post-parachute budgets, we wouldn't be in this division now. I firmly believe that.

I'll grant you the comparative argument isn't clear cut as we're halfway through a season, but if Wilson gets us promoted it will be unanswerable.

 

[Darren]

I'm looking at the budget overall - wages and transfers. Both will have net sales to their name. In fact, Robbo must be the only manager in my lifetime who doesn't!

But anyway... Wilson had one season with an inflated wage bill (the corollory being it was an inherited squad), and one half season with an absolute ground-zero wage bill following an unprecedented wage bill drop and cull of talent. That it remained high for the division doesn't alter the fact it plummeted and brought huge disruption.

On to Blackwell.... he was still spaffing money on loans and crazy wages after we lost at Wembley. If Blackwell/Birch had grasped the nettle of post-parachute budgets, we wouldn't be in this division now. I firmly believe that.

I'll grant you the comparative argument isn't clear cut as we're halfway through a season, but if Wilson gets us promoted it will be unanswerable.

But Wilson will have got us promoted from the 3rd Division, whereas Blackwell kept us competitive at the top half of the second tier, so don't see the argument as unanswerable at all. I also don't see the 2009-10 season as you see it - I recall us selling all our best players (Walker, Naughton, Kilgallon etc) and having to make do and mend with various loanees. I suspect that the percentage budget reduction between 08-09 and 09-10 was comparable to that between 11-12 and 12-13.

 

[JohnDenver]

But Wilson will have got us promoted from the 3rd Division, whereas Blackwell kept us competitive at the top half of the second tier, so don't see the argument as unanswerable at all. I also don't see the 2009-10 season as you see it - I recall us selling all our best players (Walker, Naughton, Kilgallon etc) and having to make do and mend with various loanees. I suspect that the percentage budget reduction between 08-09 and 09-10 was comparable to that between 11-12 and 12-13.

If we're dealing in relative figures, Blackwell always had very high budgets for the Championship. When we got relegated it was still high. So using that yardstick alone, he should have got us promoted, just as Wilson should have.

My bottom line is this - Blackwell was part of the regime that all but bankrupt the club, showed outrageous short-termism and ultimately plonked us in the third tier. Whereas Wilson is the manager who's finally dealing with financial realities.

 

[metalblade]

I'd go as far to say if we had kept Blackwell we wouldn't be in the 3rd division, granted some of the football was utterly awful to watch but he got results, Blackwell's win ratio stands up against most of Uniteds better managers, not bad when you consider all through his time here he had to make cuts or had players sold from under him. The only bloke who plonked us in division 3 was Mickey Adams, we looked fairly safe until his arrival.

 

[super_pig]

when Blackwell took over i was genuinely pleased.. my mate who is a Leeds fan made the point that 'with the squad that he inherits he will do really well but when he goes into the transfer market and makes his own signings it will start to go tits up' and he was bang on
astonishing to see Britton, Dyer and Leigertwood doing well in the Prem

 

[Pinchy]

Would we agree that Blackwell was our best post Warnock manager (admittedly the competition is not exactly stiff)? My ranking would be:

1. Blackwell
2. Wilson
3. Speed
4. Adams
5. Robson

The hardest choice was between 4 and 5, but I think Robson just shades it, given the resources he had.

What's our favourite S.T.D?

Syphillis all the way for me. Much more agreeable than Blackwell and a better manager too.

 

[Darren]

What's our favourite S.T.D?

Syphillis all the way for me. Much more agreeable than Blackwell and a better manager too.

I'll take that as a grudging agreement

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

I'll take that as a grudging agreement

Unlike Blackwell it won't cost you millions of pounds and contribute to potentially many years in the wilderness.

Well unless you caught it from someone else and passed it onto the wife.