Get it built !!!

[s4-blade]

I couldn’t think of anything worse than having new all singing all dancing stands full of glass and restaurants and fancy suites and whatever the fuck else they put in them these days. I want it to be a bit of a shithole, with a place to get a pint and a pie and something to piss into. I don’t care about leg room or padded seats or sight lines, that’s not what footballs about. Fuck your modern shit, lets keep it traditional and proper. We are a proper club, let’s keep it that way, you can shove your microbreweries and fancy food and tourist shite up your arse.

 

[bromtom]

I couldn’t think of anything worse than having new all singing all dancing stands full of glass and restaurants and fancy suites and whatever the fuck else they put in them these days. I want it to be a bit of a shithole, with a place to get a pint and a pie and something to piss into. I don’t care about leg room or padded seats or sight lines, that’s not what footballs about. Fuck your modern shit, lets keep it traditional and proper. We are a proper club, let’s keep it that way, you can shove your microbreweries and fancy food and tourist shite up your arse.

Agree, while I don't mind if they put some function rooms in, if we build new stands, or new fronts for old stands, I genuinely think they should be made out of things that would suit the area, red bricks, preferably reclaimed with soot on them, and maybe a bit of metal.

Plate glass and white cladding can get fucked, it's a football ground with a history in an area with a history, it's not Meadowhall.

 

[nickwr37]

We are a business in tough current times. Maximise potential is the game. Planning is key. May now take longer than initially anticipated.

 

[Charlieblade]

Global football finance is already under pressure, and financial probity will become under even greater scrutiny.
In terms of cash generation, the success of the first team is absolutely the number one priority.
Wilder has rightly highlighted the comparatively poor facilities, and underperforming academy. Any spare cash left over from team building must go to new, or improved facilities for these areas.
If that means a cheap, short term solution to remedy the aging Kop, then so be it. (Left for too long and H&S will force the clubs hand).
Palace has already been mentioned, and I’m sure the ROI on that will be scrutinized more carefully in light of recent problems. Daniel Leavy was probably looking forward to massive praise for driving the new stadium development, but has now had to borrow serious millions, just to underwrite losses from non football events being cancelled due to Covid.

Even a glance at the future, and the big picture tells us that future ambitions should be considered very carefully before any investment is made.

When is a decision on safe standing expected?

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

I'll admit, I have a blindspot. I'm worried I'm missing something. Be gentle with me. Explain how improved Academy FACILITIES increase the chances of producing Academy PLAYERS who reach the First Team. Obviously, I get that your chances are worse if kids are training on council parks & changing in bus shelters. But the facilities at Shirecliffe are not that bad, surely. It's recruitment & coaching & leadership which bring Academy players through to the first team isn't it? Not better shampoo in the showers & hotter water? It's flesh & blood, not bricks & mortar.

 

[Charlieblade]

Who knows. Perhaps improved facilities, and higher standards, will attract better youngsters to a grade 1 academy, instead of our best coaching leadership being lured away by Man Utd?

 

[Cerberus Blade]

View attachment 84395

What is it?

 

[Niceguyeddie]

'Our landscape has definitely changed. I’m not embarrassed to say that. We will lose a chunk of change. Maybe £20m-£30m, although that might be a question for (chief executive) Steve Bettis. So that does affect investment, and also in the next few days, when the transfer will go through from one owner to another'
Different reason, same figure.

That's from loss of The t.v money

 

[Cerberus Blade]

With respect Tracey, the one thing we don't want is a two tired stand. Firstly, and mainly, because it no longer becomes a Kop if its double tiered, or if you are of the opinion that you'll still have a Kop, but with a further top tier, then to me that then detracts from the rest of the Kop, and also, we have a problem as it is with getting the whole Kop to sing as one, often with the same chant seconds behind each other, depending on what part of the Kop you're on, but with two tiers that would be even worse surely?

I must say, I've not heard that line of argument before and I've always thought it would be better to have a 2 tier "kop", with seating upstairs and safe-standing downstairs. However, I'd not really considered those points you've made. I think it would be a better atmosphere if it was all one big "kop", I don't disagree. Would you be in favour of "safe standing" in some areas of it or would you want it to be all seated? Or maybe all "safe-standing?". I can't see us getting permission for it to be all "safe-standing" personally, because it would be considered "unsafe!".

 

[Cerberus Blade]

Of course having two tiers wouldn't be a 'Kop', and if we're precious about this as a club then that is perhaps why it is proposed the way it is. These were McCabe's plans and maybe HRH would have a different vision.

Yes, apparently HRH does have a different vision, something that will blend in better with the surrounding area.

 

[Champagneblade]

Should be looking to improve the training facilities and the academy facilities first. Ground improvements can come in 4-5 years time if we are still raking in the premier coin.

I would tend to agree but when would be better to increase the capacity than now? No reduced gates in the interim as nobody can come anyway!

 

[nopigfansintown]

I'll admit, I have a blindspot. I'm worried I'm missing something. Be gentle with me. Explain how improved Academy FACILITIES increase the chances of producing Academy PLAYERS who reach the First Team. Obviously, I get that your chances are worse if kids are training on council parks & changing in bus shelters. But the facilities at Shirecliffe are not that bad, surely. It's recruitment & coaching & leadership which bring Academy players through to the first team isn't it? Not better shampoo in the showers & hotter water? It's flesh & blood, not bricks & mortar.

The facilities themselves aren't the key issue for me, although the amount of coaching time and facilities are a selling point to players. The academy system is hierarchical: if you meet category one requirements It means you get a larger area to scout in, are more attractive to potential recruits, can hold on to them and get more protections and money when the players move on. The Cat one academies are now bringing through an increasing number of players - particularly elite level players - as they have effectively destroyed the academy system which, up to the point, was a fairly egalitarian part of the game. The trend seems to be that clubs with academies below cat one are abandoning them altogether, or downgrading to a centre of excellence or cat three.They are divesting as they see that the academy game is rigged. In the main, it just isn't profitable to run a category two academy anymore. People will point to United's successes, but that was based on a complete restructuring in the way we target players. Your Calvert-Lewins, Walkers, Maguires etc look largely to be a thing of the past.
I would argue that there is a clear business case for any of the bigger Championship/middling premier league clubs to have a cat one academy. The reason being, you can effectively artificially enhance your squad expenditure whilst not falling foul of financial fair play rules. Academy expenditure is exempt; you clearly get a higher percentage of player who play in the first team, so it's a no brainier in the era of huge losses, and points deductions for overspending on the roulette wheel of the transfer market. Theoretically, the facilities and more importantly buying of this status, would enhance United's chances of playing in the top division more often. An owner who was prepared to spend the 39 million in losses over three years on transfer fees and wages, may as well have the elite academy artificially enhancing his club's chances of promotion. A penny for the Wendy chairman's thoughts.

 

[SelbyBlade]

Thinking about the land we have, our location and the Prince's penchant for gridiron. I think we could purchase the land across from Bramall lane reroute Bramall lane around it and fit a Spurs size stadium on our land as per the picture below. Due to our location and the fact that the North West teams have already developed their stadiums. We could be the American football venue for the North but also we are less than an hour away from Leicester Derby Nottingham (all straight down the M1. We are also close to the M62 corridor with its huge conurbation and have our own large conurbation. It would allow a huge revenue stream to build up from the gridiron as well as the Prem. We started as a two sport stadium why not utilise our stadium to make money from another sport again? It would be a massive boost to the "sport City" with huge visitor numbers also. Just a thought.

 

[Jon Bon II]

Thinking about the land we have, our location and the Prince's penchant for gridiron. I think we could purchase the land across from Bramall lane reroute Bramall lane around it and fit a Spurs size stadium on our land as per the picture below. Due to our location and the fact that the North West teams have already developed their stadiums. We could be the American football venue for the North but also we are less than an hour away from Leicester Derby Nottingham (all straight down the M1. We are also close to the M62 corridor with its huge conurbation and have our own large conurbation. It would allow a huge revenue stream to build up from the gridiron as well as the Prem. We started as a two sport stadium why not utilise our stadium to make money from another sport again? It would be a massive boost to the "sport City" with huge visitor numbers also. Just a thought.
View attachment 84432

LOL. Someone needs to log out of The Sims and log back into real life.

 

[Kozzy_is_my_Dad]

Owt that gets those poles off the Kop.

Not in a 'Brexit-y' kinda way, though.

 

[YES Blade]

Thinking about the land we have, our location and the Prince's penchant for gridiron. I think we could purchase the land across from Bramall lane reroute Bramall lane around it and fit a Spurs size stadium on our land as per the picture below. Due to our location and the fact that the North West teams have already developed their stadiums. We could be the American football venue for the North but also we are less than an hour away from Leicester Derby Nottingham (all straight down the M1. We are also close to the M62 corridor with its huge conurbation and have our own large conurbation. It would allow a huge revenue stream to build up from the gridiron as well as the Prem. We started as a two sport stadium why not utilise our stadium to make money from another sport again? It would be a massive boost to the "sport City" with huge visitor numbers also. Just a thought.
View attachment 84432

Although it's highly unlikely we'd build something on the scale of Spurs, I do like your way of thinking. Why not dream big? The club needs to move on from the small time mentality of the past.

 

[Rodley]

Don't need legroom for safe standing...

Cheapest and most popular ground improvement he could make.

 

[TJB.]

Cheapest and most popular ground improvement he could make.

You can't help but look at Wolves' South Bank with a sense of envy (and hope)...

 

[Rodley]

The simplest answer is this for me:-

Step 1 - An additional tier on the South Stand with enhanced corporate facilities plus a section for Senior Blades with reduced rates for 65+ years. You’ve got the space to do it and corporate will bring significant revenue in.

Step 2 - Convert the Kop to Safe Standing. We’ve seen this season more than any the demonstrable impact of an atmosphere in the grounds, especially ours.

Step 2 is probably the quickest and cheapest route so should be done first!

 

[Rodley]

You can't help but look at Wolves' South Bank with a sense of envy (and hope)...

It will happen and I cannot wait.

 

[WORKSOPBLADE]

The simplest answer is this for me:-

Step 1 - An additional tier on the South Stand with enhanced corporate facilities plus a section for Senior Blades with reduced rates for 65+ years. You’ve got the space to do it and corporate will bring significant revenue in.

Step 2 - Convert the Kop to Safe Standing. We’ve seen this season more than any the demonstrable impact of an atmosphere in the grounds, especially ours.

Step 2 is probably the quickest and cheapest route so should be done first.

Senior blades section on lower tier for access and eyesight benefits. (Thinking ahead for selfish reasons ).

 

[Rodley]

Senior blades section on lower tier for access and eyesight benefits. (Thinking ahead for selfish reasons ).

It’s a reasonable idea as some will be displaced from the Kop Safe Standing. Plus I’m sure we can have an express queuing system for the toilets!

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

How does putting more seats in the stadium build a fanbase more effectively than building a team capable of staying in the PL long term?

We aren't Manchester United, Man City or Liverpool who will always appeal to young fans due to their success and the fact it's completely acceptable in the school yard to follow them. In Sheffield kids will of course migrate to us if we're the highest profile team so I get what you are saying around PL survival but I don't see why upgrading the ground would be detrimental to that. It's highly likely that we will be flitting around the bottom half of the table at regular points for the next few seasons due to our relative budgets against our competitors, but what will capture the young fans is experiencing a matchday and the atmosphere from seeing it live and not on TV. That is what can't really be explained to those that have never really attended, there is something special about matchday, and particularly at the moment there is something special at our club. A bond between the fans, the club, and the management that is tangible. It's special and it's addictive, but you need to be part of it for it to get it's hooks into you, and that's what attending matches at the moment does. Allowing new fans to attend, injects new life into the club, new energy and builds something for 40-50 years, not 3 or 4 and should we go down at any point, some of those will stay.

One additional point ref the academy, I don't see how investing in the academy would help us stay in this league in the short/medium term. We haven't focused on our academy for a while, so any improvements aren't going to see returned for at the very least 5 years. I believe we need to improve the training grounds, absolutely, but an academy overhaul, maybe going for an A status, can wait until after the Kop has been expanded. Especially as we have a unique opportunity to do that work without impacting those currently attending. All the other proposed upgrades can wait, or be redesigned appropriately, but a 35,500 ground would seem a sensible mid-step given season tickets didn't make it to general sale last year.

 

[Wards]

Leading the way on safe-standing would be brilliant and potentially a great bit of PR for the club

 

[D34dxBladeZz]

For me, an improved Kop is first on the priority list. The facilities on and behind the Kop are league 1 at best. Doing this will bring the capacity up to 35k (which we could realistically achieve) plus it improves the fan experience and revenue going into the club.
Now is the perfect time to do it with no need to shut the Kop and relocate fans.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

You can't help but look at Wolves' South Bank with a sense of envy (and hope)...

We couldn’t do exactly that under existing regulations unfortunately.

On the Kop, the seating row depth is only 650mm – that’s extremely narrow by modern standards, and a reminder of the age of the stand (the recommendation now is 800mm and some new stadia have rows even deeper than that). 650mm limits the options available to us on the stand, and makes the sort of independent barrier at Wolves a non-starter, I'm afraid, as their barrier takes up 85mm of the row depth (the existing Kop seats will take up around 280mm from front to back when tipped up). That would only leave a 'clearway' of only 285mm, which is well below the permitted minimum.

There are different seats on the market (that are rail seats with an integrated barrier on them), that have been used in areas converted at other grounds. Those could be options within the stand’s limitations (the seats when tipped up would take up just 100mm), though there would be cost implications. To be honest I think at the very least an improvement would be to rip out the existing seats and install these in their place – particularly if we’re unlikely to do anything major save for removing the pillars.

That could also be phased in – start with say the back 10 rows and if popular just keep replacing them towards the front. As an idea, that would be about £100/seat. Some fans have crowd sourced some of the costs for this at other clubs.

 

[Working Class Hero]

We couldn’t do that under existing regulations unfortunately.

On the Kop, the seating row depth is only 650mm – that’s extremely narrow by modern standards, and a reminder of the age of the stand (the recommendation now is 800mm and some new stadia have rows even deeper than that). 650mm limits the options available to us on the stand, and makes the sort of independent barrier at Wolves a non-starter, I'm afraid, as their barrier takes up 85mm of the row depth (the existing Kop seats will take up around 280mm from front to back when tipped up). That would only leave a 'clearway' of only 285mm, which is well below the permitted minimum.

There are different seats on the market (that are rail seats with an integrated barrier on them), that have been used in areas converted at other grounds. Those could be options within the stand’s limitations (the seats when tipped up would take up just 100mm), though there would be cost implications. To be honest I think at the very least an improvement would be to rip out the existing seats and install these in their place – particularly if we’re unlikely to do anything major save for removing the pillars.

That could also be phased in – start with say the back 10 rows and if popular just keep replacing them towards the front. As an idea, that would be about £100/seat. Some fans have crowd sourced some of the costs for this at other clubs.

There wouldn't be 14,000 people wanting to stand anyway, so it would make more sense just to put rail seats in the extension.

 

[Houston_Blade]

We aren't Manchester United, Man City or Liverpool who will always appeal to young fans due to their success and the fact it's completely acceptable in the school yard to follow them. In Sheffield kids will of course migrate to us if we're the highest profile team so I get what you are saying around PL survival but I don't see why upgrading the ground would be detrimental to that. It's highly likely that we will be flitting around the bottom half of the table at regular points for the next few seasons due to our relative budgets against our competitors, but what will capture the young fans is experiencing a matchday and the atmosphere from seeing it live and not on TV. That is what can't really be explained to those that have never really attended, there is something special about matchday, and particularly at the moment there is something special at our club. A bond between the fans, the club, and the management that is tangible. It's special and it's addictive, but you need to be part of it for it to get it's hooks into you, and that's what attending matches at the moment does. Allowing new fans to attend, injects new life into the club, new energy and builds something for 40-50 years, not 3 or 4 and should we go down at any point, some of those will stay.

One additional point ref the academy, I don't see how investing in the academy would help us stay in this league in the short/medium term. We haven't focused on our academy for a while, so any improvements aren't going to see returned for at the very least 5 years. I believe we need to improve the training grounds, absolutely, but an academy overhaul, maybe going for an A status, can wait until after the Kop has been expanded. Especially as we have a unique opportunity to do that work without impacting those currently attending. All the other proposed upgrades can wait, or be redesigned appropriately, but a 35,500 ground would seem a sensible mid-step given season tickets didn't make it to general sale last year.

I don't see the point in building more capacity until we are regularly at capacity in the seats we currently have. I'd say that 4/5 games have or would have completely sold out this year. I don't want to build another 3.5k seats for Man U/Arsenal/Chelsea/Liverpool fans to sit in when they sell out their allocation. We'd also probably have to close some of the ground for a period whilst we improve existing areas so we'd lose capacity in the short term as well.

I'm not too fussed about the academy, we obviously have a strategy where we aren't using academy players, whether that's because they aren't good enough or because we don't have the margin for error, we need an academy of course but not concerned if it's not the best in the country.

Training ground needs to be state of the art, it's a player attraction tool as much as anything else.

 

[Kenilworth]

I would tend to agree but when would be better to increase the capacity than now? No reduced gates in the interim as nobody can come anyway!

Gate receipts are a drop in the ocean to the TV money.
I’d rather we invested in the training and academy side of things to drive the longevity and sustainability of the club. Attracting talent to the club at this stage, while we have profile and funds, is far more beneficial in the medium to long term than accommodating a few thousand extra fans on a match day.
We will have time and resource to do the other if we establish ourselves in this league. Doing the ground is not nearly as important as the training and the academy, at this early stage.

 

[TJB.]

We couldn’t do exactly that under existing regulations unfortunately.

On the Kop, the seating row depth is only 650mm – that’s extremely narrow by modern standards, and a reminder of the age of the stand (the recommendation now is 800mm and some new stadia have rows even deeper than that). 650mm limits the options available to us on the stand, and makes the sort of independent barrier at Wolves a non-starter, I'm afraid, as their barrier takes up 85mm of the row depth (the existing Kop seats will take up around 280mm from front to back when tipped up). That would only leave a 'clearway' of only 285mm, which is well below the permitted minimum.

There are different seats on the market (that are rail seats with an integrated barrier on them), that have been used in areas converted at other grounds. Those could be options within the stand’s limitations (the seats when tipped up would take up just 100mm), though there would be cost implications. To be honest I think at the very least an improvement would be to rip out the existing seats and install these in their place – particularly if we’re unlikely to do anything major save for removing the pillars.

That could also be phased in – start with say the back 10 rows and if popular just keep replacing them towards the front. As an idea, that would be about £100/seat. Some fans have crowd sourced some of the costs for this at other clubs.

Cheers for shitting on my dreams. Bastard.



I had no idea about all of that. Makes perfect sense. How did you find out about the 650mm depth? You didn't take a ruler to a game, did you?!

I'm sure many would be happy to take the reins on a crowdsourcing initiative for us should it come to that. Shrewsbury did it to great success, if memory serves me correctly. Wouldn't the law need to be changed for those particular seats to be installed in the top two divisions?