George Long or Mark Howard?

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JJBlade said:
Howard for me, He's done nothing to lose the shirt yet. It's still a bit too early for Long even though he's had plenty of games. His first game was a 4-4 draw with Exeter (I think) and he looked like being beaten every time Exeter went forward, in fact he was beaten every time Exeter went forward.
Long is a good keeper but the defence looks incredibly jittery when he is in goal, he is a bit quiet and probably feels that because of his age and inexperience he has no right to bark orders out at seasoned pro's, but this is exactly what he has to do if he wants to get on.
He has to make that defence believe in him and stop putting them in the position that they do silly things to try to cover for the young kid.
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He was 17 in the Exeter game in all fairness but that was his last game of the season that year. He played a few Jpt games prior to briefly dislodging Simonsen. Clough is sending him out on loan hopefully to the right club. I would have kept him and played him over Howard to answer the question.
 

Howard every game, but then I just think goal keepers need experience and a loud, commanding voice to communicate with the back four. Long was great last season, but as already said, lacked voice. He'll do well on loan i think
 
Communication is one of the biggest assets in football, especially for a goalkeeper, they can see everything infront of them & it's their duty to be commanding & lead from the back.

Howard's organisation & commanding voice I believe is one of the reasons our form took a dramatic upturn (yes granted he didn't have much to do in some of those games) but the fact he talks to his back four constantly lifts a weight off their shoulders as they are aware as to what is happening out of their eye line and the presence of a vocal keeper behind them helps them get on with their job.

Long unfortunately although I feel is slightly more agile than Howard currently just does not offer the presence a keeper needs to (yet). He needs to be more convincing and confident in his ability because he has got the talent to be a top keeper but he won't reach his potential until he learns to 'be a presence' by that I don't mean coming and trying to claim every single cross what I'm saying is his body language, mannerism & the way he goes about his business needs to change.

He needs to drop the 'quiet little mouse' act and not be afraid to bawl, shout & deliver orders to these seasoned professionals infront of him, they'd be thankful for it & wouldn't feel the need to 'protect' him so much.

George is a top talent but Howard for me over the two currently.
 
We're blessed at the moment to have 3 good keepers at our club ,
2 are still learning there trade , while one has the experience to guide us through this season while bringing on one of the young un's ,
Think it would benefit our club in the long run ( see what I did there ) if G L was to help his career by going out on loan no disrespect to the youngster , but we have to do what's best for United and George this year ,
and that is Howard this ( promotion winning season ) , with the other 2 coming into there own next season .
Not since Mel , Tracy , and Kelly have we been so good in this department .
 
I think te 'experience' card is a very false one to be playing. Howard has 103 senior appearances (52 for St Mirren and not a lot else) whereas Long has 65 senior appearances all for us. We haven't had a solid reliable keeper since Kenny really, although I quite liked Bunn, I was heavily out voted so will accept defeat on that one! Howard may currently be the better of the 2 keepers, but there are 9 or 10 keepers in this division alone I would prefer between our sticks.
 
I think that of the 2, George is a better shot stopper having better reach and balance whereas Mark is a better communicator to the rest of the defence and has better distribution in both speed and accuracy.

Georges "shortcomings" are solvable but perhaps in United's promotion interests he might be better learning elsewhere in a loan. I believe that George will eventually be the better keeper but both ought to keep a lookout over their shoulder as George Willis is coming along nicely too.
 
SouthEssexBlade said:
Howard until the real keeper at the Lane is ready to take over.

And despite Foxy trying to take credit, we all know I said it first. Willis to be England No1
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What credit? someone else mentioned me! :D

What SouthEssexBlade conveniently forgets is that I've got an archive of forum posts going back over a decade to call upon for proof and that besides, I used to work at the lads school... meaning that I clearly said it while he was still just a promising schoolkid ;)

Plus, I need no more credit, look how Harry Maguire, Diego, Reedy, Dimaio... Maxime Chanot, Nicky Travis and Keith Quinn turned out :D
 
Foxy said:
What credit? someone else mentioned me! :D

What SouthEssexBlade conveniently forgets is that I've got an archive of forum posts going back over a decade to call upon for proof and that besides, I used to work at the lads school... meaning that I clearly said it while he was still just a promising schoolkid ;)

Plus, I need no more credit, look how Harry Maguire, Diego, Reedy, Dimaio... Maxime Chanot, Nicky Travis and Keith Quinn turned out :D
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Quelle Surprise :rolleyes:
 
SouthEssexBlade said:
Howard until the real keeper at the Lane is ready to take over.

And despite Foxy trying to take credit, we all know I said it first. Willis to be England No1
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How old is Willis 18? Never seen him play, I did hear he was small (height) though.
 
Long or Howard mmmm neither, but at the moment Howard just and only because he is more vocal and Long's confidence was shot last season under Weirs management. I can't really believe the clamour for Howard to be number 1 the guy has never held that position at any club for long he couldn't even do it in Scotland the land noted for crap keepers. For a side supposedly going for promotion we should have better than these two, no we MUST have better. None of these two inspire much confidence for me.
 
People are saying Howard's distribution is better than Long's,is it hellers like,they are both shite at it,the amount of times Howard kicked the ball out of play was astonishingly embarrassing to say the least.

And on the loaning him out situation,we have a supposable England u21 keeper in our ranks in George Long,so why is loaning him out to lets say a bottom half of our league or a league 2 side going to make him into a championship goalkeeper,because thats where we are supposed to be heading.Either play Long this season and make him number one or sell him, simple as that.Like a few have said,his confidence was shot, and lets be honest ,its the worst position in football for your confidence to be down,give the lad a chance now or get rid,don't go kidding the lad on,because we all know that when cloughy sends people out on loan,they are quite clearly not in his plans as he has proved since he's been with us.
 
wizadry said:
People are saying Howard's distribution is better than Long's,is it hellers like,they are both shite at it,the amount of times Howard kicked the ball out of play was astonishingly embarrassing to say the least.

And on the loaning him out situation,we have a supposable England u21 keeper in our ranks in George Long,so why is loaning him out to lets say a bottom half of our league or a league 2 side going to make him into a championship goalkeeper,because thats where we are supposed to be heading.Either play Long this season and make him number one or sell him, simple as that.Like a few have said,his confidence was shot, and lets be honest ,its the worst position in football for your confidence to be down,give the lad a chance now or get rid,don't go kidding the lad on,because we all know that when cloughy sends people out on loan,they are quite clearly not in his plans as he has proved since he's been with us.
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Ask Joe Hart
 

sheffielder said:
There must be more though wizardry. Not many keepers make the grade in their teens above this division
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My point i was trying to make is play Long this year,because we will have a good enough squad with newly found confidence to bring him on at our club this season imo but it is a valid point you make.
 
wizadry said:
My point i was trying to make is play Long this year,because we will have a good enough squad with newly found confidence to bring him on at our club this season imo but it is a valid point you make.
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Personally I would, however it's not a popular belief. With new leadership in the side should inspire some including George. If you watch George at half time of games he doesn't seem I lack confidence and wonder if it's space awareness. I played Sunday league in net and the pitch looks smaller and you feel like you have less time. Whatever happens, with games he is going to come good
 
If the rumors are to be believed i'd get Paddy Kenny back. I know many hate the guy but I don't think we've had a decent keeper since.And he's twice the keeper Howard is and is ever likely to be.
 
I can't believe that some - albeit a very small minority - are suggesting we play Long so that he can regain his confidence. Eh? This is professional football - not the U7's on a Sunday morning. And for me it's not just confidence - it's many of the basics that he needs to improve. I think it will be easier for him to do that at a lower level where there will be less pressure and lower expectations.
 
wizadry said:
People are saying Howard's distribution is better than Long's,is it hellers like,they are both shite at it,the amount of times Howard kicked the ball out of play was astonishingly embarrassing to say the least.
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I thought that Howard was basically doing what the fly half in rugby does and kicking for position.
 
oaklandrdblade said:
I thought that Howard was basically doing what the fly half in rugby does and kicking for position.
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There are several aspects of Howard's better distribution:

Mark passes the ball out far quicker than George, rather than waiting for the opposition to get back into a defensive position.

By throwing the ball out without delay we retain possession better and and have a chance of proceeding through midfield.

By starting attacks off from the back we avoid the long kicks that give possession away more times than not (as we do not have a good enough target man).

When a fast counter attack is possible, Mark's kicks are longer and more accurate
 
Hodgyman said:
There are several aspects of Howard's better distribution:

Mark passes the ball out far quicker than George, rather than waiting for the opposition to get back into a defensive position.

By throwing the ball out without delay we retain possession better and and have a chance of proceeding through midfield.

By starting attacks off from the back we avoid the long kicks that give possession away more times than not (as we do not have a good enough target man).

When a fast counter attack is possible, Mark's kicks are longer and more accurate
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It must just be me then,i think Howards distribution is terrible.
 

Hodgyman said:
There are several aspects of Howard's better distribution:

Mark passes the ball out far quicker than George, rather than waiting for the opposition to get back into a defensive position.

By throwing the ball out without delay we retain possession better and and have a chance of proceeding through midfield.

By starting attacks off from the back we avoid the long kicks that give possession away more times than not (as we do not have a good enough target man).

When a fast counter attack is possible, Mark's kicks are longer and more accurate
Click to expand...
Are you serious they are both as bad at kicking, I mean they have to kick a ball 50 yards or so down a 80 yard wide pitch how fookin hard is it ? Blokes do it with ease on the parks every weekend and land it in what is a fookin wide area of grass to aim at. Two poor keepers League One is the best they will ever get to I'm afraid. The excuse that one is still learning is wearing very thin I'd say both will cost us goals next season.
 
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