George Long Not Good Enough

[Almosthuman]

So George Long is the new scape goat then?

No not at all, can you not criticize someone (Constructively) with out it being scapegoating? No one want's anyone to be a bad player and no one want's to place blame for no reason.

In the past 2 years (from what I have seen) ...

- McEvely deserved all the aggro he got in his first season. He was careless, negative and very poor on the ball. Also was a major contributor to the worst defense I've seen in a united shirt. This year he started just as poorly as last season (so no blaming Cloughs style of play) again he was found not to be up to the task, let's also not forget his handballs (Spurs away and the infamous one this season).

- Dean Hammond - I don't think this needs explaining.

No one is scapegoating just pointing out how shite these players really are and to be recognized for being shite in one of the worst squads in a long time means they really do have to be shite.

For the record I don't place George Long in that category at all, I think he's a bit poor, not a train wreck like those players.

 

[Alfreton14Blade]

CW's been more enthusiastic about Scougall (& even McNulty) than he has about George, what with his studiedly neutral comments along the lines of "fine if he stays, fine if he goes".
So can't honestly see George starting anywhere other than on the bench when the new season kicks off.

But without the (fairly considerable) compo we'd have got, will we realistically be splashing out and paying a fee for Smith? Doubt it very much.

Much more likely now IMO that we'll be bringing a free agent in, albeit one who'll be first choice with George having to fight to regain his no.1 status off him.

 

[Mousey]

Five years ago Leeds sold a young 'keeper because he wasn't good enough and made mistakes during the season. He just won the Premier League this season.

Aged 22 Joe Hart was at Birmingham and kept making mistakes but look where he is now.

I'm not saying Long will end up an international 'keeper but at the age of 22 he is at the same stage of development of the two best 'keepers in the Premier League.

Give Long a settled and decent defence in front of him and he will no doubt improve as a result.

 

[I should coco]

Just because he played for Wendy doesn't mean we can't sign him.

Objection your honour!

No pig fans in town, nor their ex players either. There are 90 other clubs to chose from so we do not want their rejects.

I've only just got over Curran signing!

Off for a lie down in a darkened room......

 

[Almosthuman]

of course....all fans could unite behind the lad, offer encouragement and make him feel a foot taller. We might see less mistakes from a relaxed and confident keeper then!

Or some could blow his mistakes out of proportion and destroy the lad.....that'll help!

Open your eyes....look at the bigger picture and treat the keeper as part of the defensive unit...that being how the whole side defends not just him. It's only because of his position that any error is scrutinised. When Sharp misses a sitter...or Adams makes the wrong decision...or Reed gives the ball away its soon forgotten about.

Simon Tracy made errors....Kelly....Kenny...all made errors that often cost us goals. Difference these days is that fans don't praise their positives, and for me often forget the biggest part of this is that they are OUR player. Fans should be cheering them on, and pushing them to be the best they can, even if they are crap. I wonder how a Bob Booker would fare in the modern Bramall Lane!

All fair points but I don't really buy that, yes there were some negative times at BL and away last season BUT the amount of times that the crowd DID get behind the team far outnumbered the negative times.

There were many occasions last year where the fans were well on side, cheering them on with us actually with the momentum and he would still make mistakes, not little mistakes but mistakes you shouldn't be making at this level.

And another big negative with George for me is his distribution and the speed of it. We would regain possession a with GL and players would be screaming for the ball everyone in the ground looking for the fast ball and he would just hold it looking like he hadn't a clue. Other times his goal kicks would be no where near the target man.

I sit quite close to the dugouts and would hear NA shouting (To Conor, or find Che) just for the ball to be pinged to bill or Done on the wing and us to lose possession.

Again not bitching for the sake, am actually providing examples of why I'm critcizing which is constructive, we shouldn't all blindly support and accept mediocrity (or rubbish) for the sake of being blades.

 

[Chali 2na]

Why should academy players be given special treatment?

ISC, didn't request "special treatment", he asked the following :

What is this thing with attacking our own academy players?

I hate the "abuse" aimed at some of the younger players, and after scratching my head I put it down to 3 things.

Forum contrarians: There are a few members of the forum who I suspect sometimes (maybe subconsciously) take the unpopular view just for the sake of discussion.
Depressed blades: We've seen some turgid shite on and off the pitch in the last decade, I think some unitedites have become disillusioned.
A lack of empathy and vision: I think a large number of blades have struggled to identify young players who aren't yet the complete package but could make the grade and I think even larger number of blades don't consider that an encouraging and positive atmosphere would likely help said players reach their potential faster.

 

[Slim Man]

Objection your honour!

No pig fans in town, nor their ex players either. There are 90 other clubs to chose from so we do not want their rejects.

I've only just got over Curran signing!

Off for a lie down in a darkened room......

Del Geary, Leigh Bromby and Alan Quinn did us no harm

 

[DazBlade88]

Objection your honour!

No pig fans in town, nor their ex players either. There are 90 other clubs to chose from so we do not want their rejects.

I've only just got over Curran signing!

Off for a lie down in a darkened room......

So what are your thoughts on the likes of Del Geary?

 

[Almosthuman]

Five years ago Leeds sold a young 'keeper because he wasn't good enough and made mistakes during the season. He just won the Premier League this season.

Aged 22 Joe Hart was at Birmingham and kept making mistakes but look where he is now.

I'm not saying Long will end up an international 'keeper but at the age of 22 he is at the same stage of development of the two best 'keepers in the Premier League.

Give Long a settled and decent defence in front of him and he will no doubt improve as a result.

Again, fair but for every Casper Schmeichel or Joe Hart there are hundreds of others at Georges stage that go on to be just as bad or worse than they ever were. Not sure we should persevere with someone just because there are a couple of extraordinary cases, maybe we should but whilst we're waiting for him to become a world beater and leave us for the first decent contact that comes his way should we have to persevere? Or should we be looking for a solid no.1 and let GL fight for a place and improve if he can?

 

[Revolution]

He is a young lad learning his trade and will make mistakes. Tracey made mistakes (how did the 'Battle of Bramall Lane' start?)

Andy Johnson fractured Georges Santos' eye socket in the Blades-Nottingham Forest fixture the year before.

To turn to the real issue, Tracey did have the odd rush of blood, and that was a flaw, but you can't compare the two. Tracey was better in his second season for us than Long is now, and he was playing in a higher division.

 

[DazBlade88]

Again, fair but for every Casper Schmeichel or Joe Hart there are hundreds of others at Georges stage that go on to be just as bad or worse than they ever were. Not sure we should persevere with someone just because there are a couple of extraordinary cases, maybe we should but whilst we're waiting for him to become a world beater and leave us for the first decent contact that comes his way should we have to persevere? Or should we be looking for a solid no.1 and let GL fight for a place and improve if he can?

He definitely needs an experienced head alongside him as competition to help his development. Healthy competition to keep him on his toes and give Wilder the opportunity to take him out of the firing line if his confidence drops.

 

[Barney]

ISC, didn't request "special treatment", he asked the following :



I hate the "abuse" aimed at some of the younger players, and after scratching my head I put it down to 3 things.

Forum contrarians: There are a few members of the forum who I suspect sometimes (maybe subconsciously) take the unpopular view just for the sake of discussion.
Depressed blades: We've seen some turgid shite on and off the pitch in the last decade, I think some unitedites have become disillusioned.
A lack of empathy and vision: I think a large number of blades have struggled to identify young players who aren't yet the complete package but could make the grade and I think even larger number of blades don't consider that an encouraging and positive atmosphere would likely help said players reach their potential faster.

To be fair, to say "what is this thing with attacking our younger players" is to separate criticism of young academy players with criticism of the other players.

As if to say criticism of young academy players is less acceptable than that of normal players, or worse, not allowed at all. That would be special treatment. Why make this separation?

To me, all players should be judged equally, regardless of how they ended up in the first team.

 

[DazBlade88]

To me, all players should be judged equally, regardless of how they ended up in the first team.

It depends on the situation though. I think it's fair to be less harsh on a younger player like Whiteman who is learning his trade making a basic mistake than on somebody like Hammond because you expect more of experienced pros.

 

[I should coco]

Del Geary, Leigh Bromby and Alan Quinn did us no harm

Only after they'd run their trotters off and I'd argue only the first of those was really any good.

Quinn did of course earn himself a place as a Blades legend with a certain goal though.

 

[Trigger Blade]

Pardon my ignorance, but what's happened to George Willis?

 

[Slim Man]

Only after they'd run their trotters off and I'd argue only the first of those was really any good.

Quinn did of course earn himself a place as a Blades legend with a certain goal though.

All played their part bless em, they all contributed to the best season in recent memory! What I'd do for another promotion... I'd have a team full of pigs!

 

[Slim Man]

Pardon my ignorance, but what's happened to George Willis?

Don't think he's progressed like everyone expected.
Him being 5"11 doesn't help either.

 

[I should coco]

Andy Johnson fractured Georges Santos' eye socket in the Blades-Nottingham Forest fixture the year before.

I know my history thanks.

My point was that Tracey got a red for racing out of his area and committing an 'industrial' tackle. Even allowing for the Santos and Suffo reds, the game wouldn't have been abandoned if Tracey hadn't had a very early bath.

I am one of many that still contend that Santos 'got the ball'. He just happened to catch the man a little bit as well.

 

[Chali 2na]

To be fair, to say "what is this thing with attacking our younger players" is to separate criticism of young academy players with criticism of the other players.

As if to say criticism of young academy players is less acceptable than that of normal players, or worse, not allowed at all. That would be special treatment. Why make this separation?

To me, all players should be judged equally, regardless of how they ended up in the first team.

Good point, I've seen quite a lot of criticism aimed at Che Adams which is why I didn't make the distinction though.

 

[I should coco]

What I'd do for another promotion... I'd have a team full of pigs!

Now you ARE being silly.

In any case, a team of pig rejects are hardly likely to be promotion winning star players are they? Let's get back to GL and drop this talk of pig players at BDTBL.

 

[Slim Man]

Now you ARE being silly.

In any case, a team of pig rejects are hardly likely to be promotion winning star players are they? Let's get back to GL and drop this talk of pig players at BDTBL.

Long live George Long.

 

[Almosthuman]

It depends on the situation though. I think it's fair to be less harsh on a younger player like Whiteman who is learning his trade making a basic mistake than on somebody like Hammond because you expect more of experienced pros.

I think there is merit to that however there is also the argument that if your in the first team you should be ready to play well in the division your in. If he's still at that point where he's consistently making mistakes then get him on loan to a lower division team.

Not saying that's the case with Whiteman or that it's even the right way to approach it,, I just see both sides as having a point.

I think it's right to be slightly less harsh on younger players but that doesn't mean ignoring all mistakes and poor performances. Ben Whiteman/Lewis Reed have had ups and downs but not really been terrible hence there is a pretty strong support from them because most people can see the potential.

GL - been in and around the first team a lot longer, I personally don't see huge potential and think a lot of time he's been a liability, thats the main reason for the criticism

 

[Trigger Blade]

Don't think he's progressed like everyone expected.
Him being 5"11 doesn't help either.

He'd have towered above Hodgy then, who was about 5'9"

 

[Revolution]

I know my history thanks.

My point was that Tracey got a red for racing out of his area and committing an 'industrial' tackle. Even allowing for the Santos and Suffo reds, the game wouldn't have been abandoned if Tracey hadn't had a very early bath.

I am one of many that still contend that Santos 'got the ball'. He just happened to catch the man a little bit as well.

It would: Keith Curle would have gone instead. He tried repeatedly to get sent off before the injuries and the ref ignored him.

I am sure Santos did that deliberately, after all, he told the Star that week he was after Johnson.

As for Tracey, Longs flaws are wider than coming out of the box too rashly.

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

Have you ever even seen Smith play?

What we need is an experienced head as competition. Can pick them up for nowt, I'd go for Kirkland.

I know we have knocked Long including me . He may well finish up a good goalkeeper , and hope he does .

The bottom line that Wilder will ask himself , as we do , with the question.

We get 2no new CBs , is Long a promotion winning team goalkeeper . The jury is out with us lot , so I would think the same with Wilder . If he brings a new keeper in , yes it's got to be a experienced bloke who as done it , been , there , got the tee shirt , like Wigan did.

The last thing we need is another unsafe pair of hands .

Goalkeeper as important as Billy up front .

UTB

 

[DazBlade88]

I think there is merit to that however there is also the argument that if your in the first team you should be ready to play well in the division your in. If he's still at that point where he's consistently making mistakes then get him on loan to a lower division team.

Not saying that's the case with Whiteman or that it's even the right way to approach it,, I just see both sides as having a point.

I think it's right to be slightly less harsh on younger players but that doesn't mean ignoring all mistakes and poor performances. Ben Whiteman/Lewis Reed have had ups and downs but not really been terrible hence there is a pretty strong support from them because most people can see the potential.

GL - been in and around the first team a lot longer, I personally don't see huge potential and think a lot of time he's been a liability, thats the main reason for the criticism

I agree that you shouldn't ignore all mistakes and poor performances, if it's a regular thing then you do something about it but with young players I always feel that can be coached out of them. More experienced players it probably can't.

Long has been in the first team for longer but he was thrown in at a time when he really shouldn't have been. In terms of his career I'd say he's 3 years in front of where I would have expected when I saw him as a 16 year old. I think he'd have developed better had his first two years been loan spells rather than the in and out style he's had with Simonsen/Howard in a very pressurised situation.

That does sound a bit contradictory to what I said about having an experienced goalkeeper who can compete with him, but obviously we're later down the line.

 

[Jehovah]

Some harsh comments against George. I personally hope we lose every game next season if he continues to improve.

 

[dublin 10 blade]

I think George Long will play in the top flight one day. Still young and still improving.

Yeah in 2 years with us !!!!!

 

[dublin 10 blade]

Why not? Kirkland is nothing like Madine... Just because he played for Wendy doesn't mean we can't sign him. Safe to say I'd take all 11 of their first teamers off their hands straight away... Good professional and would be like Wigan signing Jaaskelienen last year. Didn't do them any harm.

I've nothing against signing any pig player ,
the cunt curran being the only exception I just dont think he's that good , theirs better out there , and George , in my opinion can only develop better as a player , with us .

 

[dublin 10 blade]

Objection your honour!

No pig fans in town, nor their ex players either. There are 90 other clubs to chose from so we do not want their rejects.

I've only just got over Curran signing!

Off for a lie down in a darkened room......

Curran the biggest cunt we ever signed from them , mind you they weren't massive back then .