Freeman and Pompey

[Darthblade]

How on earth can Pompey be expected to fork out £4/£5k a week for a full back in League 2.

Will freeman accept a pay drop of £2k a week just to play in L2?

Don't think so. Play hardball all we want.

Fair point ...... Pompey won't be offering £3k + per week for players in L2 ......

We do need to "up our game" and play "hardball" with the listed players though. Tufty could start by telling their agents ........ find your lad another Club, because he's not going to play football here and if he doesn't have a new club by the end of July, he's training with the U14s because I don't want him near the first team.

That may just serve to "motivate" the removal process a little, rather than talking about how we may need to use some of the listed players to cover injuries etc.

UTB & FTP

 

[Darthblade]

Kelly will do for back up

To be fair ...... I have seen nothing to suggest that Kelly will be able to compete at L1 level any time soon .........

UTB & FTP

 

[Fulwood Blade]

Pay up Pompey

well done - it will be lost on most fans though.

UTB

 

[Woodwardfan]

Fair point ...... Pompey won't be offering £3k + per week for players in L2 ......

We do need to "up our game" and play "hardball" with the listed players though. Tufty could start by telling their agents ........ find your lad another Club, because he's not going to play football here and if he doesn't have a new club by the end of July, he's training with the U14s because I don't want him near the first team.

That may just serve to "motivate" the removal process a little, rather than talking about how we may need to use some of the listed players to cover injuries etc.

UTB & FTP

The big stumbling block is the year remaining on contracts at high wages, hardball or not. Best get- out is shipping them out on loan and paying half the wages. That's no saving on settling their contract mind you, but the other club doesn't have to commit to a term contract, just a season loan.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

All this vitriol pointed at Freeman is just too much.

He isn't brilliant but he certainly isn't a twat, cunt etc.

He is a poor defender - even when on loan when we predominantly played him on the left.

He is a skilful footballer, better going forward, but an awful defender - gets skinned far too often and easily. Brayford (IMHO) isn't much better at defending either. Yes it was a bad decision by Clough to sign him, but you can't blame the lad for coming here on the contract Clough gave him

For the ones who remember Borbokis - he was an absolute fabulous wing back - but again, in my opinion was poor when played in a 4 as I think Derby found out.

Perhaps 4th tier is Freeman's level - CW seems to be playing hard ball - we should all be thankful he is, just give him time sort it out.

UTB

 

[Tezza1889]

It was my belief that all the unwanted were on free transfers, that tells you what type of cunt we've had at the club, but can you really blame the player for wanting his 30 pieces of silver before he goes..

 

[Chali 2na]

Freeman will never be able to defend stop trying to promote him he's fucking garbage face it.

You'll get splinters in your arse if you sit on the fence any longer.

 

[Deleted member 875]

I'm probably the last person to ask to justify the way football has gone over the years and would relate Rooney's £300k per week against your hard earned money; I abhor the way money has ruined our sport, but the players hold most of the cards in these situations.

However a contract is a contract and footballers do not have to justify the fact that they expect to be compensated for unexpired wages on contracts if their parent club wants them to leave. Often it's an issue when players are leaving for pay rises at their new club never mind large pay reductions; they insist on a share of the transfer fee or cash even if there isn't a fee for some strange reason.

The incentive for the parent club in these situations is to save money and free up budget for replacement players. The incentive for a young player like Freeman not to be greedy is the opportunity to get their playing career on track. Hammond on the other hand is less concerned about that at his age and will negotiate all the harder.

I can't justify that but I understand it and anybody would do the same with a contract in their hands which guarantees big earnings for a set period. No mortal reason why they would not regard it as a right and it would happen outside football too.

If your 2nd string RB who can't defend is on 5k a week no wonder people got sacked. Let us not defend Freeman as even Portsmouth fans don't even want him and they have been through the mire.

It is not about the contracts, just an illustration how his demands compare to the real world.

Since Freeman signed, he has played maybe 30 times, has often been poor, and has not justified what he earns, but he has a contract that must be adhered to that means he gets probably £12,000 a week paid in to his bank account after tax irregardless of performance,

If he doesn't like his employers, all the evidence does go to suggesting that he doesn't like it here, the forum member Freeman alluded to that on several occasions, then it is still his right for him to sit on his contract and get every last penny that is due to him, but then if he has an opportunity to go elsewhere on reduced terms then we can allow him that, but what I don't agree with is that we would have to pay his contract up.

What I would prefer for us to do is allow him to move without paying his contract up on a free transfer, let him go for a fee that will cover the value of the rest of his contract, or let him sit on his contract away from first team football until it expires, risking the potential value of any future he might get. Let him take the gamble to see where it takes him

In a few years time he could be sat in his house (I'd imagine anyone that age on those wages with half a brain would have a decent house with the mortgage paid early) saying I've bought and paid for this house, but without achieving anything of note in the world of professional football, or he could also be sat in the same house with a League 2 winner medal from next season that he won with Portsmouth, and the enduring respect of the Pompey fans for being part of the team that took them out of the bottom their, with his house paid for, money in the bank, and something other than material wealth to show from his career.

There was a player a few years we had, he came in on big wages and took a wage cut to join us, his performances were typical of a player over the hill and on the slide. A few months in to his contract, he admitted he wasn't up to it, tore up his contact and walked away joining Chester City where he wound down for a few months before retiring, Danny Higginbotham, remember him? His legacy he left at the Lane could have been one of a player who sat on his contract bleeding every last penny out of his contract that he could, but he didn't, she showed a bit of professional dignity, and I respected him for that,

 

[Danny_Blade]

As CW has said, any player worth his salt will want to go and play football and you'd think even more so at Freeman's age.

So time will only tell.

 

[Bartleby]

Good riddance.
Never rated him as a player and a bit of a shit-wasp...

recall an interview he did, quite a while ago, think it was when Clough was still in charge, in which Freeman said "it's not the end of the world if we don't win on Saturday" and I just thought "you shouldn't be saying that and you obviously don't give a fuck".

 

[Woodwardfan]

It is not about the contracts, just an illustration how his demands compare to the real world.

Since Freeman signed, he has played maybe 30 times, has often been poor, and has not justified what he earns, but he has a contract that must be adhered to that means he gets probably £12,000 a week paid in to his bank account after tax irregardless of performance,

If he doesn't like his employers, all the evidence does go to suggesting that he doesn't like it here, the forum member Freeman alluded to that on several occasions, then it is still his right for him to sit on his contract and get every last penny that is due to him, but then if he has an opportunity to go elsewhere on reduced terms then we can allow him that, but what I don't agree with is that we would have to pay his contract up.

What I would prefer for us to do is allow him to move without paying his contract up on a free transfer, let him go for a fee that will cover the value of the rest of his contract, or let him sit on his contract away from first team football until it expires, risking the potential value of any future he might get. Let him take the gamble to see where it takes him

In a few years time he could be sat in his house (I'd imagine anyone that age on those wages with half a brain would have a decent house with the mortgage paid early) saying I've bought and paid for this house, but without achieving anything of note in the world of professional football, or he could also be sat in the same house with a League 2 winner medal from next season that he won with Portsmouth, and the enduring respect of the Pompey fans for being part of the team that took them out of the bottom their, with his house paid for, money in the bank, and something other than material wealth to show from his career.

There was a player a few years we had, he came in on big wages and took a wage cut to join us, his performances were typical of a player over the hill and on the slide. A few months in to his contract, he admitted he wasn't up to it, tore up his contact and walked away joining Chester City where he wound down for a few months before retiring, Danny Higginbotham, remember him? His legacy he left at the Lane could have been one of a player who sat on his contract bleeding every last penny out of his contract that he could, but he didn't, she showed a bit of professional dignity, and I respected him for that,

Brownie, good response but just a few things in your reply which I think are relevant:

1. £12k a week, I think you mean £12k a month net which is about right.
2. Freeman's perception of United will change now with the new manager but he has listed him so it's a bad sign for him, I agree
3. United would never pay his full contract up in any settlement, much less than 50% surely.
4. There is no possibility of a transfer fee.
5. United lose the most money if Freeman stays and doesn't play.
6. Have we truly any idea whether a deal was not done with Higginbottom.

It's a win, win, win situation if United chip in say £30/40k to supplement Pompey's wage offer. We win and save £200k, or maybe even more, which we can help pay for a new signing; Pompey win and get their man ; Freeman wins and he might get his L2 medal but more importantly he get's first team football in a welcoming environment and his career back on track. The odds of him staying with us and getting in our first team are slim but not impossible though.

 

[Bert]

12k a month after tax still sounds too high, hard to believe that we pay him that much.

 

[Woodwardfan]

12k a month after tax still sounds too high, hard to believe that we pay him that much.

It's guesswork but Freeman came to United from in the Championship where he had nearly a year and a half remaining on his contract.

I've read the average salary in League 1 last season was "between £1700 and £2500 per week".

 

[Bert]

It's guesswork but Freeman came to United from in the Championship where he had nearly a year and a half remaining on his contract.

I've read the average salary in League 1 last season was "between £1700 and £2500 per week".

After tax????

 

[Woodwardfan]

After tax????

At least £4k a week, probably £5k a week gross. All guesswork and we'll never know.

At the end of the day the discussion is how much of a pay cut he'll be prepared to take without a 'sweetener' from United.

The average for League 2 was £1300 to £1500. Freeman will currently be way over the average for L1 of course.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I can see where you've misunderstood.

I was making the point that we shouldn't just pay him up to play at another club.

No, you weren’t. Perhaps you thought you were though.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Freeman is nowhere near the top of our list of players we need to move on.

Leave it until August, no need to do anything now.

There is absolutely no chance he earns £5k a week, he's barely started 100 League games at 6 clubs, a handful at Championship level. Not even United have been shelling out that sort of money for players like him, it doesn't stack up.

Hammond is the first priority and I accept he probably won't shift without some money although with his legs having gone I'm not sure who'd take him.

Let the agent work hard to move Freeman on, there's no need to be pushing money his way.

Hammond can still be useful to most clubs in the bottom half of this league. The issue is that he’s not worth the money he’ll be on. We were a better team with him in than out last season. Other clubs will have similarly poor midfield options to what we had last season and would benefit from having him in their team. They just won’t be able to pay what we have for his services. We’ll have to subsidise but I’m sure there will be takers.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

We don't actually have another recognised right back on the books.

Unless the plan is to use Basham or Whiteman or have one of the incoming centre backs as someone who can play on the right I see no urgency with this one.

Is Freeman good enough to deputise in League One for Brayford? I'd say he is.

Are his wages astronomical? I doubt it. He wasn't brought in as a guaranteed starter.

Is it worth expending energy to ship him out to then have to replace like for like? I'd say not, unless there was a significant financial advantage in doing so.

I'd say there is more pressure on him than us.

He could face 6 months without much football, which may jeopardise his chances of a January move also.

There will be a greater need to be proactive regarding Coutts or Hammond as they will be on 2-3 times that of Freeman and don't fit the physical profile; i.e. Unlikely to become midfield box to box allrounders, whereas Freeman can adequately provide cover at right and left back.

Agreed but I think the issue with Freeman is his attitude. Managers seem to have taken against him and he seems very financially motivated. Perhaps Wilder just wants all the bad apples out ASAP. In pure footballing terms, he’s plenty good enough to provide cover at RB and LB (and even RM).

 

[1danewhitehouse]

When Freeman came to us he still had 18 months of his Derby contract remaining at the Championship big club. Clough had extended his contract at Derby after he played that handful of first team games.

He will not have come to us for peanuts but may well have pocketed a 'golden goodbye payment' from Derby to make the deal work. Probably will have if he was accepting a pay cut, but was he?

As ever SUFC are on the losing end thanks to really poor managerial decisions. Personally I think we could make a squad player out of Freeman and even a first teamer in time if he could learn to defend better, which he will. But I suspect his wages are vastly inflated in relation to his worth. There lies the problem.

What a month January 2015 was: we signed Brayford (£1.75m? plus £9k a week? Done £750k and £7k a week? Freeman £4/5k a week? K.Wallace £3k a week and since increased on improved contract, Coutts £7k a week?, more?. How desperate we were and how we panicked and how we spent money we can never spend twice. Must be the Board's fault.

K. Wallace’s contract would have been nowhere near £3k per when he signed. It was a short term deal to the end of the season for him to try to impress us. I suspect it was no more than £1k per week. But I agree with the sentiment in relation to that month although I suspect Brayford’s transfer fee was nowhere near the £1.75 million suggested as I’m fairly confident in saying Jim was being a bit naughty with the “more than £1.5million” comment and would have been talking about the total cost of the deal (wages included).

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Fair point ...... Pompey won't be offering £3k + per week for players in L2 ......

We do need to "up our game" and play "hardball" with the listed players though. Tufty could start by telling their agents ........ find your lad another Club, because he's not going to play football here and if he doesn't have a new club by the end of July, he's training with the U14s because I don't want him near the first team.

That may just serve to "motivate" the removal process a little, rather than talking about how we may need to use some of the listed players to cover injuries etc.

UTB & FTP

Kyle Bennett, Enda Stevens, Michael Doyle, Matt Tubbs, Ben Davies, Gray Roberts etc. won’t have signed for them on peanuts. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if they are paying contracts at around £3k per week. I’m just not sure whether they’ll pay that for Freeman. If he’s on about £4k per week and they’ll pay say £2.5k per week that leaves about £78k gap to be made up. Perhaps we’ll end up having to give him a £30-40k pay off to motivate him to go and restart his career. Or maybe Clough can come and take him and Coutts off our hands and we can laugh all the way to the bank.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

It is not about the contracts, just an illustration how his demands compare to the real world.

Since Freeman signed, he has played maybe 30 times, has often been poor, and has not justified what he earns, but he has a contract that must be adhered to that means he gets probably £12,000 a week paid in to his bank account after tax irregardless of performance,

If he doesn't like his employers, all the evidence does go to suggesting that he doesn't like it here, the forum member Freeman alluded to that on several occasions, then it is still his right for him to sit on his contract and get every last penny that is due to him, but then if he has an opportunity to go elsewhere on reduced terms then we can allow him that, but what I don't agree with is that we would have to pay his contract up.

What I would prefer for us to do is allow him to move without paying his contract up on a free transfer, let him go for a fee that will cover the value of the rest of his contract, or let him sit on his contract away from first team football until it expires, risking the potential value of any future he might get. Let him take the gamble to see where it takes him

In a few years time he could be sat in his house (I'd imagine anyone that age on those wages with half a brain would have a decent house with the mortgage paid early) saying I've bought and paid for this house, but without achieving anything of note in the world of professional football, or he could also be sat in the same house with a League 2 winner medal from next season that he won with Portsmouth, and the enduring respect of the Pompey fans for being part of the team that took them out of the bottom their, with his house paid for, money in the bank, and something other than material wealth to show from his career.

There was a player a few years we had, he came in on big wages and took a wage cut to join us, his performances were typical of a player over the hill and on the slide. A few months in to his contract, he admitted he wasn't up to it, tore up his contact and walked away joining Chester City where he wound down for a few months before retiring, Danny Higginbotham, remember him? His legacy he left at the Lane could have been one of a player who sat on his contract bleeding every last penny out of his contract that he could, but he didn't, she showed a bit of professional dignity, and I respected him for that,

But to tell the full picture, at this stage, Higginbotham had done exactly the same as Hammond. Signed under a manager, didn’t live up to expectation. Manager got sacked. He had an option of a contract so activated it. Then I think it was around August/September he agreed to joint Chester as it was clear he wasn’t going to get a look in here.

We’ve had similar problems in the past when we’ve had Cresswell and Monty sat on good contracts not in the team. They both did the right thing and chased games rather than being parasites to the club. Let’s see what this bunch does.

 

[Liaminho9]

I'd offer a swap deal for Kyle Bennett

 

[The Crab]

I can see where you've misunderstood.

I was making the point that we shouldn't just pay him up to play at another club.

We shouldn't, but it's pretty much out there in the public domain that we want rid. I'd be very suprised if we got any sort of fee, and even more suprised if we didn't end up paying some of the wages, just to get rid.

 

[sheffielder]

All we should be doing is paying the difference in the wage he has with us and the one Portsmouth are willing to offer him, until the end of the season. After that he's on his own

 

[Woodwardfan]

K. Wallace’s contract would have been nowhere near £3k per when he signed. It was a short term deal to the end of the season for him to try to impress us. I suspect it was no more than £1k per week. But I agree with the sentiment in relation to that month although I suspect Brayford’s transfer fee was nowhere near the £1.75 million suggested as I’m fairly confident in saying Jim was being a bit naughty with the “more than £1.5million” comment and would have been talking about the total cost of the deal (wages included).

I remember Russell Slade commenting on the deal as "getting to a level which we just couldn't refuse" and they were in the top half of the Championship. He was talking about the deal from the perspective of the transfer fee alone which was over the odds for the player because we were determined to pay what it took.

I recall Hill at Rochdale saying something similar to the media about the Done deal getting to a level they couldn't refuse, in other words over market price, well over for a journeyman winger turned striker for a few months.

Freeman wasn't playing for Derby and neither was the unfit Coutts who hadn't played regularly for ages. We took them off their wage bill for them.

K. Wallace was a signing for the future and got himself an improved contract under Adkins. All was set fair for him until he got injured and I liked him as a player with a good left foot and what appeared to be a calm, quietly determined attitude. Can't imagine what's gone wrong in his case.

Summer 2014, early season and the JTW 2015 set us back a long way. I hope Wednesday have a summer very similar to it. New owners need the stuffing knocking out of them when they don't strike lucky with their first flush of enthusiasm and investment. If Wednesday spend a load more and end up mid-table it will be the same as happened to us then.

 

[Cyprus Blade]

Stir reports Ipswich interested

http://www.thestar.co.uk/sport/foot...-for-transfer-listed-kieron-freeman-1-7961904

 

[Woodwardfan]

Stir reports Ipswich interested

http://www.thestar.co.uk/sport/foot...-for-transfer-listed-kieron-freeman-1-7961904

That's more like it, Ipswich wages would help us get out of the situation though I can't help but feel if he's good enough for them then he should be for us. Must be primarily a wages issue/ relative to value perhaps.

 

[Barney]

Barney. If Freeman is worth £2.5k a week at the size of club interested in him and he is paid £4k a week with us then:

1. Why would Freeman take a £1.5k pay cut when he can draw £4k a week in S2.
2. If Portsmouth think he is worth no more than £2.5k a week then that's all they'll pay. His current wage rates are not their problem to inherit.
3. Why should Pompey pay a fee for the lad if they are the only club who hope to sign him and he's not worth a fee on the open market.
4. Paying Freeman £40k to leave and tear up his contract should make it possible for him to move and it saves us £200k, net £160k.

If Freeman isn't bothered about playing he might just sit on his contract with us. At his age surely not but Coutts just might do exactly that.

Just seen something about Freeman and coming back to this post...

Are you talking about a (e.g. £40k) one off payment, top up payments of what he'd be on at Portsmouth, or both? It's just that using your own example £40k would only top up his Pompey contract by £760 p/w (the poor dear), meaning he'd be on £38k less per annum than he was with SUFC.

£78k was what you probably meant if you were being accurate, although I appreciate I'm being pedantic. Still a saving of £130k though so I see your point and hold my hands up with regards my initial post.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Just seen something about Freeman and coming back to this post...

Are you talking about a (e.g. £40k) one off payment, top up payments of what he'd be on at Portsmouth, or both? It's just that using your own example £40k would only top up his Pompey contract by £760 p/w (the poor dear), meaning he'd be on £38k less per annum than he was with SUFC.

£78k was what you probably meant if you were being accurate, although I appreciate I'm being pedantic. Still a saving of £130k though so I see your point and hold my hands up with regards my initial post.

I meant £40k single payment Barney. It's a negotiating situation in which each party wants to find a way out. Freeman can't expect to not lose some money but he can't be expected to just walk away as though his contract isn't his right either. All guesswork of course but worthy of debate.

Good of you to come back to the matter though, appreciate it.

 

[8lade]

I'd go slightly the other way WWF, yeah start off with the 40k as a starting point but go up to say 90k as a figure just to get the guy away. Still save money and if he needed that sweetner for the move there it was. Who knows maybe our contract negotiators are doing just this?