Formation change during games

[Bergen Blade]

Not sure this has been fully appreciated, the way we often change formations during games.

I think it makes us a lot more flexible, and in some games it's what makes us able to get away with overly attacking starting line ups. Short clip here:



Basham's versatility is key for this, and I've been expecting a signing to enable us to do it if he is unavailable. But that's gone quiet and Jags has played there in pre season. Now Jags would have been ideal a few years ago, but at 36 I will be surprised if he'll be able to switch to this midfield role, where pressing, chasing, tenacity are key requirements as we try to regain control of a game - we are talking games when we are really struggling, getting overrun - trying to stop the rot before it's too late and we concede.

Any thoughts?

 

[Yoonited]

Not sure this has been fully appreciated, the way we often change formations during games.

I think it makes us a lot more flexible, and in some games it's what makes us able to get away with overly attacking starting line ups. Short clip here:



Basham's versatility is key for this, and I've been expecting a signing to enable us to do it if he is unavailable. But that's gone quiet and Jags has played there in pre season. Now Jags would have been ideal a few years ago, but at 36 I will be surprised if he'll be able to switch to this midfield role, where pressing, chasing, tenacity are key requirements as we try to regain control of a game - we are talking games when we are really struggling, getting overrun - trying to stop the rot before it's too late and we concede.

Any thoughts?

Do you imagine we might be backs to the wall for 90 mins? Jags might not sustain such pressure for that long, maybe in spells. Guess we will find out as undoubtably CWAK like to fix whats not working. Mebbe Morrison has more energy for the Bash role. His pace might repel the oppositions press too. I am not a great tactical reader of the game so it's refreshing to read posters that are.

 

[FTPE]

I dont want to.drift away from your (much better) point but today we started with McGoldrick and Robbo up top. I'm not sure how well they will link up with eachother but I really liked the idea of having interchangeable number 10's.
McGoldrick was fantastic when he dropped deeper and can really pick a pass for a fast/direct player like Robinson.
Obviously they'd be just as suited if the roles were reversed.

In Freeman and Duffy we have two brilliant out and out number 10's but in a division where our possession football might suffer, having two strikers that can alternate dropping deep for the ball could be quite a good option in certain games.

 

[blade67]

Not sure this has been fully appreciated, the way we often change formations during games.

I think it makes us a lot more flexible, and in some games it's what makes us able to get away with overly attacking starting line ups. Short clip here:



Basham's versatility is key for this, and I've been expecting a signing to enable us to do it if he is unavailable. But that's gone quiet and Jags has played there in pre season. Now Jags would have been ideal a few years ago, but at 36 I will be surprised if he'll be able to switch to this midfield role, where pressing, chasing, tenacity are key requirements as we try to regain control of a game - we are talking games when we are really struggling, getting overrun - trying to stop the rot before it's too late and we concede.

Any thoughts?

We have done this quite often over the last 2 years and it is probably why Basham has kept the starters shirt.

It will be really interesting to see if Basham or Jags starts the season at RCB as I feel Jags is the better defender but is unlikely to offer the same energy as a midfielder.

 

[AWetFlannel]

Be intersting to see how Jags gets forward in the RCB role and whether Wilder fancies him moving into the midfield diamond.

I think it's unlikely, so imagine Wilder is looking at a new system to switch into if we become a flat back 5. Probably means sacrificing the ability to change without substitution which is a shame given its effectiveness last season.

 

[Ricky]

I'm not sure how well they will link up with eachother but I really liked the idea of having interchangeable number 10's.

That's what I have in mind. Robinson and McGoldrick interchanging between ST/AM with hopefully McBurnie CF.

That's a front 3 that has a bit of everything.

 

[bettsyblade86]

Not sure this has been fully appreciated, the way we often change formations during games.

I think it makes us a lot more flexible, and in some games it's what makes us able to get away with overly attacking starting line ups. Short clip here:



Basham's versatility is key for this, and I've been expecting a signing to enable us to do it if he is unavailable. But that's gone quiet and Jags has played there in pre season. Now Jags would have been ideal a few years ago, but at 36 I will be surprised if he'll be able to switch to this midfield role, where pressing, chasing, tenacity are key requirements as we try to regain control of a game - we are talking games when we are really struggling, getting overrun - trying to stop the rot before it's too late and we concede.

Any thoughts?

I was hoping you'd do a bit of analysis of the Betis game (did you see it?) - it seemed apparent to me we went to a 5-4-1 once in the lead, with Freeman and Duffy supporting McGoldrick but from a wider and slightly deeper starting position. I thought at the time that might be the reason Robinson was brought in. I'm not sure about his workrate but he has more pace than Duffy so would be suited to getting forward from a deeper, wider position than Duffs.

 

[Woodwardfan]

If Basham not available then Jagielka will be RCB.

Lundstram is in pole position. Osborn looks a relevant target. Slater may be knocking on the door.

Wilder said there are 3/4 more signings. Presume another striker, another centre back, another ball-winning midfielder and a left side wing back.

Hogg would be ideal.

 

[Bergen Blade]

I dont want to.drift away from your (much better) point but today we started with McGoldrick and Robbo up top. I'm not sure how well they will link up with eachother but I really liked the idea of having interchangeable number 10's.
McGoldrick was fantastic when he dropped deeper and can really pick a pass for a fast/direct player like Robinson.
Obviously they'd be just as suited if the roles were reversed.

In Freeman and Duffy we have two brilliant out and out number 10's but in a division where our possession football might suffer, having two strikers that can alternate dropping deep for the ball could be quite a good option in certain games.

With the new signings we have more attacking options, and we've already tried a few variants of our main formation. I think two number 10s behind the main striker may be one we'll be seeing more often this season.

 

[Bergen Blade]

I was hoping you'd do a bit of analysis of the Betis game (did you see it?) - it seemed apparent to me we went to a 5-4-1 once in the lead, with Freeman and Duffy supporting McGoldrick but from a wider and slightly deeper starting position. I thought at the time that might be the reason Robinson was brought in. I'm not sure about his workrate but he has more pace than Duffy so would be suited to getting forward from a deeper, wider position than Duffs.

I think we played 3-4-3/5-4-1 after the break vs Betis; this is seconds after the second half kick off:



While the above photo looks very attacking, Duffy and/or LFreeman dropping a bit deeper can also help us become stronger in midfield if we're struggling, as you say making it a 5-4-1.

 

[Niceguyeddie]

I think we've been looking to find a way of changing to a 4-3-3 during games for a while now ,how we will be able to do it with the starting eleven will be interesting but the players we are bringing in would certainly point to this

 

[nickwr37]

I think we need 3 friendlies against Man City pre season. Agreement that both clubs will put out full strength sides. It will give us an idea at least. Won't happen either.

 

[Bergen Blade]

Here's how it looked with Duffy and Luke Freeman dropping down to help out our midfield:




The danger may be that we become too deep. The advantage of the Basham/diamond tweak has been that we become more competitive and often regain control of the game again, winning the midfield battle after looking like losing it.

 

[bettsyblade86]

Here's how it looked with Duffy and Luke Freeman dropping down to help out our midfield:

View attachment 57976


The danger may be that we become too deep. The advantage of the Basham/diamond tweak has been that we become more competitive and often regain control of the game again, winning the midfield battle after looking like losing it.

That's exactly the image I had in my head when I tried to you originally. Hopefully 4 good on the ball midfielders - one of which being Robinson with that extra pace - should help us get up the pitch?

 

[Bergen Blade]

If Basham not available then Jagielka will be RCB.

Lundstram is in pole position. Osborn looks a relevant target. Slater may be knocking on the door.

Wilder said there are 3/4 more signings. Presume another striker, another centre back, another ball-winning midfielder and a left side wing back.

Hogg would be ideal.

Had a look at the Northampton game. Jagielka did not get forward a la Basham. O'Connell did from the other side and Basham started doing it when he came on.

I think Wilder and Jags have talked and agreed Jags shouldn't be expected to bomb up and down the pitch. I doubt he'll be pushed into midfield either, and if he is he'll more likely be the anchor, pushing Norwood a bit forward.

A couple of times we seemed to try achieving overload down the right hand side by having Lundstram overlapping from RCM. You heard it here first - overlapping central midfielders - (c) CWAK!

Seriously, not sure how intentional that was, but it could be a workaround if Jags is to play RCB.

 

[Bergen Blade]

That's exactly the image I had in my head when I tried to you originally. Hopefully 4 good on the ball midfielders - one of which being Robinson with that extra pace - should help us get up the pitch?

Yes, from an attacking perspective, agree Robinson would probably be better than Duffy and Luke Freeman in that formation. It will be interesting to see which combinations Wilder will try to make work. I'd like McBurnie, but if Maupay is coming as well, there'll almost be too many selection dilemmas!

 

[robbiez666]

When we signed Jags I saw him more as competition for Egan than for Basham. Stearman can fill in on occasion but don't feel he's still at the standard to do so regularly if needed.

Basham is now 31. There has to be some questions around whether he can keep doing it on a weekly basis. He's going to be up against much fitter and faster players on a weekly basis now and will be a lot harder for him to make the ground back. I foresee a lot more bookings, at the very least.

 

[kop_blade9]

When we signed Jags I saw him more as competition for Egan than for Basham. Stearman can fill in on occasion but don't feel he's still at the standard to do so regularly if needed.

Basham is now 31. There has to be some questions around whether he can keep doing it on a weekly basis. He's going to be up against much fitter and faster players on a weekly basis now and will be a lot harder for him to make the ground back. I foresee a lot more bookings, at the very least.

I wouldn't worry about bash's fitness. They were calling him Mr. Robot on Preseason in Portugal because he was the fittest and fastest guy there.
In the preseason games though I can't help but feel he has lost his place to Jags.
Freeman was playing more of a winger role at Northampton. Jags did overlap him occasionally but Lunny and Norwood were also popping up to overlap him as well.

 

[kop_blade9]

Here's how it looked with Duffy and Luke Freeman dropping down to help out our midfield:

View attachment 57976


The danger may be that we become too deep. The advantage of the Basham/diamond tweak has been that we become more competitive and often regain control of the game again, winning the midfield battle after looking like losing it.

Think this is after we had scored and seemed to go into defensive mode with everybody back just leaving Robinson up to break.
Wonder who gets the nod as breakaway striker if we are going to be playing like this against certain teams.

 

[Bergen Blade]

Think this is after we had scored and seemed to go into defensive mode with everybody back just leaving Robinson up to break.
Wonder who gets the nod as breakaway striker if we are going to be playing like this against certain teams.

Actually it's just moments after the first screenshot I posted, but I agree we were pushed back like that later on.

 

[Bergen Blade]

After 65 minutes against Stade de Reims, we switched to a diamond as described in the opening post. It did help us and Basham did a good job getting involved and we dominated possession for the last 25 minutes.

I think it's something we should keep using. We may regret not getting like for like backup/competition for Basham as we'd lose a key tweak if he's unavailable.