Fleetwood 1 United 1 - report

[Pinchy]

The fact 2 or 3 shots whizzed past our post in the final few minutes....

Just as I guaranteed.

How on earth is the opposition missing the target 'fortunate'?

We had 19 shots, 6 of which were on target. Lucky Fleetwood eh? 13 slices of good fortune! Remarkable.

If you want to be taken seriously, try to reduce the nonsense/common sense ratio a little.

 

[pommpey]

what he said ...

Fair points Balham.

However, if the Maguire money has gone, then that is fucking scandalous. Other income streams are not mentioned there. How much was made on season and half season tickets? How much goes through the turnstiles every other week? What is the club shop making and other merchandise outlets? And more importantly, what the fuck is meant by this 'game changing investment' and the Saudi feller?

pommpey

 

[pommpey]

Just as I guaranteed.

How on earth is the opposition missing the target 'fortunate'?

We had 19 shots, 6 of which were on target. Lucky Fleetwood eh? 13 slices of good fortune! Remarkable.

If you want to be taken seriously, try to reduce the nonsense/common sense ratio a little.

19 shots, 6 on target. One successfully resulted in a goal.

They also had one successful strike on target. The more attempts they have, the more chance they have of taking all three points off us. Not the first time this has happened this season, is it? MKD ring any bells?

In honesty, do you think United actually played well to scrape a draw against a club a couple of years ago were in the semi-pro leagues? Personally, I find it bizarre if you do. I suppose some people's expectations of Sheffield United differ, but surely ... if we are aspiring for promotion, it is not arrogant or over-expectant to look at us playing a former non league side even away as one where we would max out on points. Instead we manage to hit the net once (courtesy of a non striker, again) and allow them to share the points. You do understand, although many say 'theres a long way to go', the current form even in the most optimistic eyes, doesn't suggest promotion in any measure and now a worrying gap is opening up.

Why, when faced with such damning evidence, do you treat people like Deadbat and others with such disdain and contempt? Or are you just enjoying trolling? Why not supply some evidence that upholds your optimism.

pommpey

 

[Bergen Blade]

Here's the goal we conceded from a different angle:



Doyle is not happy afterwards.

 

[Deadbat]

Just as I guaranteed.

How on earth is the opposition missing the target 'fortunate'?

We had 19 shots, 6 of which were on target. Lucky Fleetwood eh? 13 slices of good fortune! Remarkable.

If you want to be taken seriously, try to reduce the nonsense/common sense ratio a little.

Ah, if only football was that straight forward.

Were you at the game Pinchy? Seriously and if so how did you rate the performance especially the second half. Just wondering.

We were slightly better than them first half. They were slightly better than us second half bt I repeat they had the best chances. It is all subjective. We had two or three weak shots on target (Flynn, Wallace and O'Grady) that keeper saved easier. They had two or three shots just past the post or just over with Howard well beaten; certainly on two.

So it is subjective who actually got closer. As for the 19 shots on target; other than Murphy's effort the keeper pushed away (maybe via the post); I am not sure of many others outside the goal that were looked remotely like going in and most were straight at the keeper.

I was there and I saw with my own eyes the home side pressing and looking more likely to win than us for the closing 15 minutes (other than the late Cuvelier effort over). Still you know better than me based on BBC stats on what happened at the game?

I'll leave you with a stat as you like them so much. Out of the top 5; we have conceded more than any of the teams and also scored less than all of them. So what quite the above stats mean in terms of if we cannot stop conceding and don't score. There is only one stat that counts and that is how many goals you concede and how many you let in.

 

[Deadbat]

Here's the goal we conceded from a different angle:



Doyle is not happy afterwards.

Wondered what he booked McEveley for? Smacking the ball away or trying to handball it as it went into the net? Maybe a combination of both.

 

[wizadry]

Here's the goal we conceded from a different angle:



Doyle is not happy afterwards.

Doyles'attempt to keep up with the player who put the cross in is why he is no longer good enough at doing the job he's supposed to be,he switches off way too much and you can't afford to do that when you haven't got the legs either.Also where the fuck was McCarthy going near the halfway line,got dragged all over the place when he should have just held his line with the rest of the defence and let one of the midfielders do the pressing,bad defending all round 'tbh'.

 

[Deadbat]

Doyles'attempt to keep up with the player who put the cross in is why he is no longer good enough at doing the job he's supposed to be,he switches off way too much and you can't afford to do that when you haven't got the legs either.Also where the fuck was McCarthy going near the halfway line,got dragged all over the place when he should have just held his line with the rest of the defence and let one of the midfielders do the pressing,bad defending all round 'tbh'.

Yes there were lots to blame. Flynn got dragged out of position. Then the cross comes over with no cover. Harris switches off (not sure who he is marking) ad leaves Wallace nearest to him and he just leaves him to a free header. Then when it comes across both centre backs were too slow to react to get back

 

[Bergen Blade]

Doyles'attempt to keep up with the player who put the cross in is why he is no longer good enough at doing the job he's supposed to be,he switches off way too much and you can't afford to do that when you haven't got the legs either.Also where the fuck was McCarthy going near the halfway line,got dragged all over the place when he should have just held his line with the rest of the defence and let one of the midfielders do the pressing,bad defending all round 'tbh'.

Baxter and Doyle were pressing marking other players, so I think it was ok for McCarthy to close down their target man. But when one member of the back four pushes up the remaining three have to drop deeper and pull together:

This is what we did:



This is what we should have done:




It would have left us with a back three instead of a back two, better equipped to deal with the danger. Fleetwood's wide man would have got the ball and would have had space to run into, but he wouldn't been able to pass it into space behind Flynn.

The full back position is new to Flynn, so not surprised he's making mistakes like these. It'll be up to the management and coaching staff to explain to him how he should be handling situations like these.

From the other angle, showing the run of the crosser:

 

[Lane Ender]

Doyles'attempt to keep up with the player who put the cross in is why he is no longer good enough at doing the job he's supposed to be,he switches off way too much and you can't afford to do that when you haven't got the legs either.Also where the fuck was McCarthy going near the halfway line,got dragged all over the place when he should have just held his line with the rest of the defence and let one of the midfielders do the pressing,bad defending all round 'tbh'.

The old "ball watching" thing schoolboy stuff

 

[Bergen Blade]

Yes there were lots to blame. Flynn got dragged out of position. Then the cross comes over with no cover. Harris switches off (not sure who he is marking) ad leaves Wallace nearest to him and he just leaves him to a free header. Then when it comes across both centre backs were too slow to react to get back

Harris is marking Matty Hughes the whole time, blame free IMO.

 

[wizadry]

Baxter and Doyle were pressing marking other players, so I think it was ok for McCarthy to close down their target man. But when one member of the back four pushes up the remaining three have to drop deeper and pull together:

This is what we did:

View attachment 9984

This is what we should have done:

View attachment 9985


It would have left us with a back three instead of a back two, better equipped to deal with the danger. Fleetwood's wide man would have got the ball and would have had space to run into, but he wouldn't been able to pass it into space behind Flynn.

The full back position is new to Flynn, so not surprised he's making mistakes like these. It'll be up to the management and coaching staff to explain to him how he should be handling situations like these.

From the other angle, showing the run of the crosser:

View attachment 9986

Just have another look at your last diagram Bergen Blade ,and tell me if you think McCarthy should ever end up where he is,with 2 midfielders running past him,i personally think it's shocking and upsets the rest of the team defensively.

 

[Bergen Blade]

Just have another look at your last diagram Bergen Blade ,and tell me if you think McCarthy should ever end up where he is,with 2 midfielders running past him,i personally think it's shocking and upsets the rest of the team defensively.

I think the video from behind the goal gives you a better understanding of the situation. As Proctor shows for the ball we are in good control. Proctor has his back to goal and the other striker is static. McCarthy has nobody else to mark, so I think it's ok that he pushes out to prevent Proctor from turning.

But the rest of the back four has to respond in the right manner. Imagine an elastic rope tied around the defenders' waist. When one push out the other three has to pull together behind him, as in the second photo.

 

[wizadry]

I think the video from behind the goal gives you a better understanding of the situation. As Proctor shows for the ball we are in good control. Proctor has his back to goal and the other striker is static. McCarthy has nobody else to mark, so I think it's ok that he pushes out to prevent Proctor from turning.

But the rest of the back four has to respond in the right manner. Imagine an elastic rope tied around the defenders' waist. When one push out the other three has to pull together behind him, as in the second photo.

I understand what you're saying mate but i think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one as i honestly believe that if McCarthy holds his ground with the rest of the defence then that goal would have more than likely being prevented.

 

[Bergen Blade]

I understand what you're saying mate but i think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one as i honestly believe that if McCarthy holds his ground with the rest of the defence then that goal would have more than likely being prevented.

Fine with me, but would you be telling your centre halves to stay deep at all times, never close down a target man showing for the ball?

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

Howard 7/10 – Had little to do

Deadbat's ratings continue to baffle me.

 

[wizadry]

Fine with me, but would you be telling your centre halves to stay deep at all times, never close down a target man showing for the ball?

Not all the time,only when the midfield are nowhere to be seen,in this instance the midfield could have dealt with it and McCarthy could have stayed put,then there wouldn't have been a gaping hole in behind him for the player to run into,him marauding out like that was only ever going to cause problems defensively imo.

 

[Bergen Blade]

Not all the time,only when the midfield are nowhere to be seen,in this instance the midfield could have dealt with it and McCarthy could have stayed put,then there wouldn't have been a gaping hole in behind him for the player to run into,him marauding out like that was only ever going to cause problems defensively imo.

As Ross Barkley showed a few minutes ago, it's not a good idea to give up space between the defence and midfield either. If McCarthy had dropped deep, Proctor could have turned and ran at them. I wouldn't have trusted Doyle and Baxter to catch up with him.

 

[wizadry]

As Ross Barkley showed a few minutes ago, it's not a good idea to give up space between the defence and midfield either. If McCarthy had dropped deep, Proctor could have turned and ran at them. I wouldn't have trusted Doyle and Baxter to catch up with him.

View attachment 9989

I'll put it like this to you.Do you think what we did in losing our shape and letting them get a cross into the 6 yard box,not having any shape when that cross came in was better than keeping our shape,and shutting down at the right moment?

We were 10 yards further up the pitch with our backline than what QPR were against Barkley and that was just as bad but you have more chance of stopping a chance or goal being created if you keep your shape at the back and shutting down as a unit.We lost our shape and shutting down as a unit went out of the window as soon as he decided to come running out.

 

[JohnDenver]

Deadbat's ratings continue to baffle me.

Allowance for facial hair.

 

[Bergen Blade]

I'll put it like this to you.Do you think what we did in losing our shape and letting them get a cross into the 6 yard box,not having any shape when that cross came in was better than keeping our shape,and shutting down at the right moment?

I think we were definitely poorly organised and post #69 shows how I think we should have dealt with the situation, i.e. by sticking to basic zonal marking principles.

 

[wizadry]

I think we were definitely poorly organised and post #69 shows how I think we should have dealt with the situation, i.e. by sticking to basic zonal marking principles.

It's that what i disagreed with in the first place,i was saying McCarthy should have stayed in shape,although i do see where you're coming from in saying once he decided to go running out to shut the player down,the rest of the defence should've tucked in.I still stick by what i said and still think McCarthy should have held his line with the rest of the defence and like i say would have more than likely prevented the goal.

 

[Bergen Blade]

It's that what i disagreed with in the first place,i was saying McCarthy should have stayed in shape,although i do see where you're coming from in saying once he decided to go running out to shut the player down,the rest of the defence should've tucked in.I still stick by what i said and still think McCarthy should have held his line with the rest of the defence and like i say would have more than likely prevented the goal.

But you haven't said why my solution is bad. I've said your solution is bad because it remains unclear when you want your centre halves to stay in shape and when to close down the target men. Not only that, you're wanting McCarthy to leave the striker, enabling him not just to get on the ball, but to turn and receive the ball in a forward moving direction, thus creating another problem - a player running against an unprotected defence, like Barkley.

 

[Lane Ender]

Doyles'attempt to keep up with the player who put the cross in is why he is no longer good enough at doing the job he's supposed to be,he switches off way too much and you can't afford to do that when you haven't got the legs either.Also where the fuck was McCarthy going near the halfway line,got dragged all over the place when he should have just held his line with the rest of the defence and let one of the midfielders do the pressing,bad defending all round 'tbh'.

Mcarthy is ok when he's marking players in front of him
When forwards run at him or try and get round the back he/we are in trouble

 

[Lane Ender]

Wallace tracks back keeps tight reduces the threat considerably he got to jump with him at least

 

[Bladepicker]

How many players has he fallen out with then ? Just curious

Any clue bladeinbolton

Genuinely interested in this. I hear it from a few of the 'anti clough' (I still can't believe they exist) lot. Yet it seems totally baseless.

 

[pommpey]

So, does Wilf have the zone? Or is it ... Bryse? Bryse has the seven. Deansy is near post.

*puzzled face*

pommpey

 

[groveblade]

Here's the goal we conceded from a different angle:



Doyle is not happy afterwards.

Terrible defending!!

 

[wizadry]

But you haven't said why my solution is bad. I've said your solution is bad because it remains unclear when you want your centre halves to stay in shape and when to close down the target men. Not only that, you're wanting McCarthy to leave the striker, enabling him not just to get on the ball, but to turn and receive the ball in a forward moving direction, thus creating another problem - a player running against an unprotected defence, like Barkley.

I never said your solution was bad,i just thought that personally on this occasion,with the midfielders where they were,could have dealt with it and that just on this occasion McCarthy should have stayed put.I never said for McCarthy to retreat and let the lad shoot like Barkley did tonight,i just wanted him to hold his line with the rest of the defence and keep his shape on this occasion.I hope this clears it up as i can't take anymore,you've tacticianed me into the groundYour solution isn't bad,i'd have just preferred mine

I'd also like to finish off by saying it wasn't just his fault,but he was the root cause of the problem for the goal and my solution for this particular move would have not been a bad one,but thanks anyway for the nice comment and i'll bear that in mind when i start questioning your nous on the matter,afterall,you presented the evidence as to who's solution didn't work

 

[bartman]

His aim this season seems to be to fall out with as many players as possible.

A few of us are still waiting for you to tell us how many players Clough has fallen out with and if possible the reasons why please