Fleetwood 1 United 1 - report

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Deadbat

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The Blades poor reason league run continued as they failed to take three points once again making it no wins in four. Despite leading to a Bob Harris strike United were pinned back and in the end were fortunate to escape with a point from another disappointing performance. Now the gap is widening at the top and United need to start putting in a run of convincing performances and results if they are serious about competing for the automatic promotion slots.

The Blades changed personnel and formation at Fleetwood as in came Chris O’Grady after injury to partner Michael Higdon with United playing with Kieran Wallace came in for his debut for the Blades with no Stefan Scougall or Louis Reed in the match day squad. It marked the first time after 707 consecutive first team fixture when a home-grown player has not featured in their squad. That is 4834 days which have passed since none were named in the party which travelled to Stockport County on 18 September 2001.

The Blades began with Baxter and Wallace in front of Doyle and Murphy playing at the front of a diamond in the midfield area trying to support the front two with no real wide men to speak of.

The game began in scrappy fashion with neither side being able to control the ball but it seemed the visitors had settled the better and resplendent in yellow they created the first chance but Murphy’s shot was pushed away by Maxwell. United were the better side and won a corner that came to nothing. However inside 10 minutes they took the lead. Baxter was involved and played it into HARRIS who came inside and with his right foot surprisingly hit a shot from around 22 yards that arrowed into the far corner. It was a decent strike and Harris’ second this season.

Fleetwood had their best spell after the goal and Proctor was not far away with an effort before Hughes nearly took advantage of McCarthy’s miscontrol. United still seemed in control though and Murphy had another effort saved that was straight at Maxwell. United had not been at their fluent best but had edged proceedings but as the second half started, the visitors seemed more determined to get a foothold in the game.

Evans forced Howard into a save and then Fleetwood won a series of corners. Just before the hour they were level. Morris was able to get away from Flynn and sent over an inviting cross which sawSARCEVIC drift off Harris and aim a looping header back in the direction it came and it nestled into the corner.

Pegged back United tried to respond at the other end O’Grady finally had an effort but was saved at the near post. Higdon nodded wide from a decent cross.

Fleetwood were now well in the game though and they created a series of half chances and appeals for a spot kick were waved away. Andrew had an effort saved and Proctor was just off target too.

Baxter was replaced by Basham who went to right back and soon after McNulty came on for Higdon as Untied tried to change things in a poor second half performance.

Murphy won a couple of free kicks with his strong running but Flynn was off target from a chance that came out of one of the awards. Fleetwood at the other end looked dangerous and Sarcevic was nearly in on goal again. The same man forced Howard into a save.

Wallace came inside and forced a save but he was to go off soon after as Cuvelier was the final change. They were chances at either end but Fleetwood probably looked the more likely as McEveley’s foul led to a free kick but it was blazed over. Howard then had to make a save from a corner before Haughton was narrowly off target. The additional time saw Cuvelier fire well over before Fleetwood were stopped from a breakaway before the final whistle went.

United
– On the strength of it, a point at Fleetwood is not too bad away from home but when the top two win again and we have just tossed away three home games without a win; it is a poor result really. The performance was not great again and we look no closer to being a side I feel convinced can be a genuine top two threat or one that can go on a run of games and wins.

Clough changed his tactics and approach somewhat but it made little difference. Seemed a lot of changes but heard some were maybe not fully fit (Campbell Ryce, Basham, Scougall etc) but it was a different set up.
We had 2 up top and an odd formation behind with Baxter, Doyle and Wallace in midfield and Murphy sort of floating around? That is how it seemed but then for stretches Wallace was wide left and Baxter wide right or Murphy would go on one side (spent a long time on the left second half). In the first half even O’Grady spent spells wide. It was all a little confusing or maybe that was the beer I had consumed! We had in theory little width as Clough acknowledged relying on full backs to provide and emphasis was to control centre of midfield and get it up field earlier capitalising on height/strength of front two. In reality it never really happened and it was all a bit of a mish mash in terms of how we went about things. The game was incredibly scrappy and of few chances. First half we scored a decent goal and then I felt we could go on but it never

I felt we did not really threaten much with 2 quite experienced frontmen. Higdon and O’Grady were poor with the former better than the latter who had a really poor game. Baxter and Murphy drifted in and out of the game with Murphy able to at least able to finally run at men towards the end but it was too late. I thought the new lad Wallace was no better than what we have (reminded me in looks and play of Dimaio – in fact surely he deserved a chance before him after doing well last season?). That may seem harsh but other than one run and shot I felt he was never in the game really. I thought at the back McEveley was fine but McCarthy again was really poor and looked like a mistake waiting to happen. I would not bring him back when his loan expires next week.

Overall though regardless of the shape/formation etc this week, the play was often sloppy. We struggled to do even the basics (as did they for long spells too) and routine passing and control often went awry. It was poor stuff. Despite this we were able to lead but never went on and they gradually came back into it. Second half we barely kept the ball for more than 2 or 3 passes and it just sort of petered out. We seemed like we were happy with a point and at times they nearly got in to score again.

Disappointing to hear Clough’s interview after the game when he seems content with top 6 and was talking as if top 2 was unlikely (that is how it came across). There is a big gap now between us and the top 2 (who to be frank are better than us and more consistent and score goals) and also the top 4. We look likely to be scrapping around for 5th/6th as things stand and I am not even that confident we will get those spots the way we are playing. We look unlikely with current form and performances to go on a run like last season and foresee many more games like today unless some players up their game. Ironic he did change things today but that did not really work either but at least showed he is not totally stubborn. Inconsistent play allied to not creating chances and failing to keep clean sheets is making it hard to see we can be amongst the top 2 at the moment. We will need to bring in 2 or 3 quality players in January and hope he can show more positivity in his formations and just somehow hope something clicks like it did last season. At the moment I have to say I will be surprised unless things change if we escape this division once again.

Fleetwood
– A poor side for long spells and should have been put to bed but they got back into it and then improved and as the game went on they looked more likely to be the winner. Heard Clough saying it was a good point but really if we are serious about going up we have to go to places like that and win and win well. Today was a real struggle to even get a point from the game.

Fleetwood were no great shakes. Their passing, control and basic play was poor (even worse than ours in the first half) but gradually as we failed to really drive out advantage home, they got back into the game. They scored a decent goal from their point of view (awful from ours) and then had 3 or 4 decent chances (better ones than we had) to win it. A draw was probably about a fair reflection but if anyone looked like winning it; then it was them. I had heard they were a big physical side who got into you but did not feel they were overly any more physical than any other sides we have faced. I felt they looked like they lacked pace at the back but we opted to go big v big.

Not sure it worked and I felt with Murphy or McNulty alongside one of big lads we may have had more joy. Remember Roberts from the Stevenage games and he is a solid no nonsense centre back but could get turned with pace. The keeper was quite small but we never really tested him at all.
The lad who scored the leveller (their best player last season) looked decent and the big lad Proctor up top was a handful. Worryingly they had more of the ball and controlled things for large spells in the second half and probably realised that we were not that good and there for the taking. A side that will probably finish around the mid table area I feel. Alexander and the club itself have done brilliantly to get them to where they are (although had spent a fair bit of money I believe – at least by League 2 standards to get out of the division)/.
 



Howard 7/10 – Had little to do really as most of the chances went wide or over. Recall one pushed away save. On the goal he had little chance as poor defending exposed him. General play he was ok in terms of handling/kicking.

Flynn 6/10
– Steady first half but poor in the second half and did not advance forward as much as he has been either. Also on the goal let the cross come over too easily as he failed to get tight. There were a couple of other occasions in the second half where he did not get tight enough on his man. Ended up further forward when Basham came on as Clough tried to shore up his side.

Harris 7/10
– Odd as he was one of our better players much of the game but like with McEveley in recent weeks, he let it down by being partly responsible for the equaliser as he was way off his man as he scored. Other than this he got forward well, scored a decent goal (showing he does have a good shot) and was one of bright spots. He looked decent and was assertive all game. Mark would have been higher but in affect he was responsible for both goals.

McEveley 7/10
– Decent enough. Defensively felt at times the front two of Hughes and Proctor’s movement was really good and they were static but he was the better of the two centre backs easily. He always tried to get on the front foot and attack the ball which I like. Gave away another daft free kick on the edge of the box second half which could have cost us.

McCarthy 5/10
– Thought for much of the game he was poor. He kept slicing the ball away or failing to keep it and defensively struggled with the lad Proctor all game. I thought he was decent when he first came (Chesterfield game aside) but is no better than what we have and we need to get Basham and McEveley playing together. Further waste of resources sadly and looks a long way from a so called Premiership squad player. The thing that has surprised me about him is how bad his touch and technique is.

Doyle 6/10
– Thought it was one of Doyle’s poorer games this season. He began ok and we seemed to control midfield but then we seemed to lose this area as the game went on despite seemingly having the numbers advantage. He was as sloppy as most in giving the ball away and some of their younger and more athletic players caused him problems with running from deep.

Wallace 5/10
– I cannot say I was overly impressed but it was his first game. Quite a sturdy built player for one so young (19). He played in and around midfield but played much of first half on the left seemingly. Felt he gave it away quite a bit and his touch was not assured. Did have one run and shot that was saved second half which was a positive moment. Went off before the end and I felt he should have been taken off long time before as we had lost midfield (not just his fault). Need to see more of him but today I was not convinced he was any better than some of young kids we have coming through?

Baxter 5.5/10
– Felt he was in and out much of the game. Ball pinged about and he never really got hold of it. However he did make the goal with a neat one two. A few nice passes but game bypassed him for long spells. Not even sure where he was playing. Was more withdrawn than he has been but then ended up wide for periods of the game too. He is another that has not got near form of last season but is being moved around positional wise. However regardless of this too many player could blame shape/tactics/style. Basic desire, control and passing should not change regardless but another struggling with these functions.

O’Grady 5/10
– For all the clamouring for him to sign, today we saw him for a full game and I won’t sit on the fence, I felt he was really poor. He won a few flicked headers and linked a few times but for the most part the ball came off him, he did not link and never looked a goal threat all game. Another like McCarthy that is from a higher level and you expect a decent touch or better touch but today they were as bad as any at controlling a football. Admittedly service was poor and it was scraps but I still expect more. I felt his pace and power he could worry defenders but the lad Proctor at the other end was much more of a threat. He has to do much better than that for me and you can see why he had not been playing at Brighton.

Murphy 7/10
– First half he was not really in the game much and another who seems to be moved around position wide so he never seems to be able to get any consistency. Did have two shots easily saved but at least had a go. Began just off top two but then as game went on ended up wide left and that is his best position for me as he can then go at his man and/or come inside. He won 2 or 3 free kicks (should have been bookings) and was a threat but again it was only a few bursts all game. Another than is frustratingly inconsistent but without him running at defenders we do not look much of an attacking threat.

Higdon 6/10
– Probably get criticised for this but felt he was actually superior to O’Grady and at least held it up on occasions. He was still very average at best and the front two never threatened all game other than odd half chance. He won a few headers and at least put a modicum of effort in but is painfully slow and when he turns it takes an eternity. As a pairing it did not work at all as we lacked pace/movement and it never happened. They had played with each other before and it showed.

Subs –

McNulty
– Given 20 minutes but really he never got into the game and at this stage they were looking more likely. Keeping hearing he is struggling with mask but that is a poor excuse for me. Another than is very inconsistent. He has had some games recently too so cannot say he is only getting odd games.

Basham –
Came on and played right back (not his best position) but feel Clough was worried about chances they were creating from Flynn’s side. We need to get him back to centre back and leave him there. Another that is being messed around a lot. Heard he was not fully fit? If so why was he on the bench?

Cuvelier -
Brought on too late really. Sort of game where his ability may have seen him unlock the door but never given proper time to have an impact. Although in 10 minutes he was defending more than attacking.

Manager rating :

Clough 5/10
– He changed the formation but went 2 up top and took the width away and made it narrow/compact. Kind of defeated the object of putting 2 up top! Changed team around in other areas and brought the young lad in, Wallace, for his debut but that did not really work either. Said it was a good point. That sums it up for me. We led and should have gone on and really took the game to them and won at a canter but struggled to even take a point. The side are not doing it at the moment and other than glimpses here and there (mostly in cup at moment) look like a team that may win one, draw a few, lost one over the coming weeks which form wise will not see us even get in the playoffs.

Officials
– Andre Marriner was given a game down the leagues (they all have to do a certain amount I believe lower down and don’t recall he was demoted for a game?). He was poor though and no better than some of the refs we see week in, week out. Booked 2 a piece but should have booked a few of the Fleetwood defenders for cynical chop downs on Murphy second half. They kept doing it as he was not booking them! Just very inconsistent with decisions both ways in a stop start game that was bad enough with two poor sides let along Marriner adding to it!

Crowd/Day Out
– United filled the away end (1,285 of and had some sections to both sides too. United fans got behind the side well in the early stages but then as performance started to deteriorate some frustration set in but most was more sarcastic then out and out vitriol at what in truth was a poor performance.

The fact the fans were singing about Andre Marriner being at Fleetwood as he was so poor and then turned their ire on United chanting that is why we are here summed it up! ‘We’re s**t and we know we are!’ was also sang towards the end. It was somewhat sarcastic but a semblance of realisation from many

United fans how poor we have become. We were in some ways hanging on at Fleetwood Town for a draw. That is no criticism of them and I know we have to be humble and accept where we are but I don’t think I am being high and mighty or acting superior by saying we should really be doing better. Results and performances like today just signify that sadly we are still going through one of darkest periods in United’s history.

Strange ground that has one fairly decent big stand (main stand) on the right to where we stood ( a few hundred United fans sat in there) and then basically three sheds surround the rest of the ground with Untied occupying behind the goal and then almost half way up the standing part to the left of us. They oddly had a big screen in the corner with the teams/goals/bookings on which was out of character for much of the ground. It was a decent atmosphere in a compact (small!) ground that was no better than many non-league grounds but had been smartened up somewhat with attempts to make it a little more modern. Always nostalgic to stand up and it was a good atmosphere amongst the Blades with some original chants.

The ground was located right in the middle of a housing estate (a bit away from the centre of Fleetwood or the Fylde coast). Fortunately it is close to several tram stops so was quite easy to get there although took over half an hour and was a number of stops as we went down the coast (went past the Fisherman’s Friend’s HQ on the way!).

The rest of the day was decent. We got to Blackpool around 10.30am; had breakfast in a Wetherspoons and then hit the arcades etc for a bit before having a few more drinks. We ended up getting to Fleetwood around 2pm and managed to have a few drinks in the Strawberry Gardens pub which was really accommodating (great for real ale drinkers) and had home and away fans mingling freely. One of the nicest bits of being down the leagues is being able to rock up at a pub right near the ground and get in and not have the ‘home only’ policy for the fans that many do higher up the leagues. We knew Syd Little was involved in the pub; him and his wife do the catering. At over 70 he is still working and was fetching egg and chips to many punters in the restaurant bit. We managed to get a cracking selfie with him which he seemed only too pleased to pose for!

We did the reverse route back and I was home for around 9.30pm ish. Long day that was enjoyable and ruined only by once again; the match!
 
Like you, the only thing to ruin my day is..the match!!
The team actually struggled at home to Plymouth last week, how are they expected to not struggle away to Fleetwood? If this type of shit display keeps on going, the writing is on the wall for our tracksuited saviour plus Morgan and Garner.
 
Shows you cant believe what you hear and read ,Ive been told Wallace and OGrady were our best players and Higdon was awful. I didn't go so cant comment but do agree on McCarthy :)
 
Shows you cant believe what you hear and read ,Ive been told Wallace and OGrady were our best players and Higdon was awful. I didn't go so cant comment but do agree on McCarthy :)

Yes. There is a tendency for gullible people to think that people who write reports have some sort of superior insight. History shows emphatically to the contrary.

Apparently we or "they" as our correspondent so objectively puts it, were fortunate to escape with a point. Perhaps we could have some particulars of this good fortune? I guarantee it will be nothing of the sort.
 
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It was woeful. Agree with match report and overall ratings.

O'Grady, Higdon, McNulty our three main strikers were v poor although, to be fair to the generally hapless McN, by the time he came on we had lost the momentum [if we ever really enjoyed it that is???] so he was never going to impress.

For me, and whatever formation Clough might adopt, there isn't 40 goals a season in all three combined.

Baxter was miles off the pace [my mate said crap], Wallace a little better though he was obviously struggling for match sharpness - second to the ball in 90% of the time.

McCarthy was the worst player on the pitch and remains a constant liability.

Plymouth was poor, this was poorer still.
 
Very good report and I have to say that your early season pessimism Deadbat has proved to be well founded, just as my optimism has been proven misplaced.

We played well until the goal and then seemed to lose focus. The new system degenerated gradually and was in total disarray before half time. I think it was 4-1-2-1-2, or just maybe 4-3-1-2. Playing Baxter in the engine room is naïve IMO. Playing Murphy away from the wing is not playing to his strengths. The investment of playing time for Higdon bears no fruit whatsoever yet. I agree the partnership of O'Grady and Higdon doesn't look likely.

I'd give O'Grady 1 more, Murphy 1 less, Higdon 1 less, Wallace 1 more, Baxter 1 less.

I'd give Clough 2 less. As I mention on another thread I was sitting right behind him and he is a negative influence on the team. He has lost his composure and his blood pressure must be off-scale. He is striking out at anybody and everything and rarely encourages players, just bollocks them. He should sit in the stand.

This is not where we should be at this stage of the season. We do not seem to have any building blocks in place and nobody in the club seems to be enjoying their job at present.
 
Like you, the only thing to ruin my day is..the match!!
The team actually struggled at home to Plymouth last week, how are they expected to not struggle away to Fleetwood? If this type of shit display keeps on going, the writing is on the wall for our tracksuited saviour plus Morgan and Garner.

Yes. The writing says that Nigel Clough will be here for a long time, to the great benefit of our club. It will, however, take a little time. Success stories do.
 
Yes. The writing says that Nigel Clough will be here for a long time, to the great benefit of our club. It will, however, take a little time. Success stories do.



Hey Pinchy, it's not Clough in League 1 that concerns me. It's Clough and his brother in the Championship. In my grandson's terms Clough is playing at level 1 now, which is generally a piece of piss. Level 2 is harder and Level 3 harder still.

United need somebody now who can go all the way, just like my grandson can! If he can't he changes games.

I'm afraid our signings have been poor, our tactics are almost as bad and player encouragement totally negative.
 
Yes. The writing says that Nigel Clough will be here for a long time, to the great benefit of our club. It will, however, take a little time. Success stories do.
What would be an acceptable period of time for Clough to demonstrate if he is going to be a benefit to this club?
 
My scores from watching on BP:

Howard 7
Flynn 5 McCarthy 5 McEveley 6 Harris 7
Doyle 5
Baxter 5 Wallace 6
Murphy 7,5
Higdon 5 O'Grady 7

Not convinced by the diamond formation and don't think we'll see it often again. We lacked width and got few crosses in, which was disappointing as we had two big men up front and Murphy also roaming around there. Full backs are sometimes exposed in this formation and Flynn found it tougher than last week, especially as Baxter was his nearest helper. A bit of movement and some clever passing from Fleetwood made them exploit Flynn's inexperience at full back and Baxter's lack of defensive work rate before their goal.

GoalWatch vs Fleetwood.jpg

* Photo shows the space Fleetwood's no 12 has to run into before he crosses for their equaliser. As McCarthy breaks out of the defensive line to close down their target man on the ball, the distance between Flynn and McEveley is too big. Neither Baxter or Doyle manage to keep track of the runner.


O'Grady is very strong back to goal with a marker behind him, he holds it up so much better than Higdon, who always gets tackled and goes to ground. Defenders are unable to do that with O'Grady and he gets a yard on the ball. I think he'll do well. What he won't offer is silky skills, vision and top anticipation. He needs a mobile goalscorer next to him.

Wallace was ok, and his touch and right footed shot in the second half was promising. Based on the rest of the game he looked just ok, but that was no worse than most of his team mates.

I can see why Clough was so frustrated and I don't think the game became quite as he hoped and planned. In the end I think he was a bit relieved that we didn't lose.
 



Very good report and I have to say that your early season pessimism Deadbat has proved to be well founded, just as my optimism has been proven misplaced.

We played well until the goal and then seemed to lose focus. The new system degenerated gradually and was in total disarray before half time. I think it was 4-1-2-1-2, or just maybe 4-3-1-2. Playing Baxter in the engine room is naïve IMO. Playing Murphy away from the wing is not playing to his strengths. The investment of playing time for Higdon bears no fruit whatsoever yet. I agree the partnership of O'Grady and Higdon doesn't look likely.

I'd give O'Grady 1 more, Murphy 1 less, Higdon 1 less, Wallace 1 more, Baxter 1 less.

I'd give Clough 2 less. As I mention on another thread I was sitting right behind him and he is a negative influence on the team. He has lost his composure and his blood pressure must be off-scale. He is striking out at anybody and everything and rarely encourages players, just bollocks them. He should sit in the stand.

This is not where we should be at this stage of the season. We do not seem to have any building blocks in place and nobody in the club seems to be enjoying their job at present.

Very worrying . We have now got COG and do hope he comes good . CH is the ongoing problem . Is it time for some christmas cheer , kiss and make up , and Mr Clough to get the ready made CH , who is already on the books , to drive down the M18 and put him straight into the Blades side ?. Mr Clough and Mr Butler both need to eat humble pie for the good of SUFC.

UTB
 
It was woeful. Agree with match report and overall ratings.

O'Grady, Higdon, McNulty our three main strikers were v poor although, to be fair to the generally hapless McN, by the time he came on we had lost the momentum [if we ever really enjoyed it that is???] so he was never going to impress.

For me, and whatever formation Clough might adopt, there isn't 40 goals a season in all three combined.

Baxter was miles off the pace [my mate said crap], Wallace a little better though he was obviously struggling for match sharpness - second to the ball in 90% of the time.

McCarthy was the worst player on the pitch and remains a constant liability.

Plymouth was poor, this was poorer still.

Funny how fans see things differently.

I thought Higdon held the ball up well and brought others into play.O'Grady seemed to get better at the game progressed and McEverley was poor was was caught out of position several times and once aain gave away a daft free kick on the edge of our box.. Our best defender yesterday was McCarthy but his distribution was poor yesterday as usual.

Because they aren't like,Higdon and McCarthy will never be praised by some fans. We had the ridiculous scenario yesterday when Harris crossed a ball about 5 yards over Higdon's head,the ball was clearly running out of play and Higdon gets the abuse for not jumping high enough or running after the ball that Usain Bolt wouldn't have caught. I asked the fan why he was abusing Higdon when it clearly wasn't his fault and his response was 'he is shit and he shouldn't be in the team'. According to some fans,running around a lot means you are a good player. Beggars belief.

As for McCarthy. apparantly he is shit because he doesn't train with us and only turns up on matchdays !!. When it is pointed out that this isn't true,all you get is abuse.

I've no problem with fans slagging of players when it is deserved but to slag them off even when they are playing OK isn't exactly 'support' is it
 
So, how long? 2 years, 5 years?

I can't answer your question because I don't know what your criteria are? Personally I am not thinking in terms of "How long should Clough stay?" I find the question absurd. So do most Blades fans. The fact that a minority on an Internet forum suffer from a form of premature exasperation, borne out of the expectation of instant gratification that pervades modern society, doesn't trouble me unduly.
 
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Funny how fans see things differently.

I thought Higdon held the ball up well and brought others into play.O'Grady seemed to get better at the game progressed and McEverley was poor was was caught out of position several times and once aain gave away a daft free kick on the edge of our box.. Our best defender yesterday was McCarthy but his distribution was poor yesterday as usual.

Because they aren't like,Higdon and McCarthy will never be praised by some fans. We had the ridiculous scenario yesterday when Harris crossed a ball about 5 yards over Higdon's head,the ball was clearly running out of play and Higdon gets the abuse for not jumping high enough or running after the ball that Usain Bolt wouldn't have caught. I asked the fan why he was abusing Higdon when it clearly wasn't his fault and his response was 'he is shit and he shouldn't be in the team'. According to some fans,running around a lot means you are a good player. Beggars belief.

As for McCarthy. apparantly he is shit because he doesn't train with us and only turns up on matchdays !!. When it is pointed out that this isn't true,all you get is abuse.

I've no problem with fans slagging of players when it is deserved but to slag them off even when they are playing OK isn't exactly 'support' is it

Yes, we have more than our fair share of single-cells, I'm afraid. Your account is all too familiar.
 
Very worrying . We have now got COG and do hope he comes good . CH is the ongoing problem . Is it time for some christmas cheer , kiss and make up , and Mr Clough to get the ready made CH , who is already on the books , to drive down the M18 and put him straight into the Blades side ?. Mr Clough and Mr Butler both need to eat humble pie for the good of SUFC.

UTB

Butler, like many before him, just gets better and better the more he doesn't play!

Walsall know him better than anyone. They declined to keep him.
 
I can't answer your question because I don't know what your criteria are? Personally I am not thinking in terms of "How long should Clough stay?" I find the question absurd. So do most Blades fans. The fact that a minority on an Internet forum suffer from a form of premature exasperation, borne out of the expectation of instant gratification that pervades modern society, doesn't trouble me unduly.
Okay. I would think it isn't asking too much for SUFC to be an established (by that I mean safe of relegation and maybe scraping into the playoffs) Championship side, given the level of support the club has. What timeframe would you give Clough to achieve this (assuming sufficient support from the board to achieve this - i'm not sure this will be forthcoming)? Also in your previous post you mention that Clough has "started the process", can you define what this means, as I don't know what your criteria are?
 
Very worrying . We have now got COG and do hope he comes good . CH is the ongoing problem . Is it time for some christmas cheer , kiss and make up , and Mr Clough to get the ready made CH , who is already on the books , to drive down the M18 and put him straight into the Blades side ?. Mr Clough and Mr Butler both need to eat humble pie for the good of SUFC.

UTB
His aim this season seems to be to fall out with as many players as possible. Maybe it's some bizarre motivational managerial trait i'm not aware of?
 
Butler, like many before him, just gets better and better the more he doesn't play!

Walsall know him better than anyone. They declined to keep him.


Simple financial requirement . Walsall declined to keep him , because they could not afford him . He is on our books , so why not give him a try . He may solve a multitude of problems . Worth a punt in my opinion .

UTB.
 
Simple financial requirement . Walsall declined to keep him , because they could not afford him . He is on our books , so why not give him a try . He may solve a multitude of problems . Worth a punt in my opinion .

UTB.

No, they could have kept him on loan. I didn't say permanently. They had to choose between two players on loan - they kept the other! I think they may have made the decision on the day they conceded 5 at home.

"Worth a punt" is a pretty rapid retreat from "Ready made centre-half" isn't it? I've not been hugely impressed by McCarthy but no-one can doubt he's done far better in football than Andy Butler. There must be a reason for that.
 
why when players are not involved do fans usually think they have fallen out with the manager.he obviously feels they are not part of his plans and is willing to let them go out on loan and i would think sell if an offer came in.Most blades have agreed that
Mcginn and porter arnt good enough(clough obviously agrees) the same for Butler and Collins who have both stated there has been no fall out with clough.As professionals they accept the manager has the right to discard players whether they agree or not .If they have been told they have no future here under clough then logic says i move on!
Butler is the only one im not sure about but clough brought him in and if in his eyes he made a mistake he at least is not
letting him hang about and hopefully the other three will be off with him.
 
Okay. I would think it isn't asking too much for SUFC to be an established (by that I mean safe of relegation and maybe scraping into the playoffs) Championship side, given the level of support the club has. What timeframe would you give Clough to achieve this (assuming sufficient support from the board to achieve this - i'm not sure this will be forthcoming)? Also in your previous post you mention that Clough has "started the process", can you define what this means, as I don't know what your criteria are?

I have no time frame in mind for Nigel Clough because I am not looking to get rid of him!

As to your second [and rather silly] question; have a look at post 34 on "Nigel's Philosophy". It might refresh your memory.
 



And yet your lord and saviour thought Butler was worth buying mere months ago.

So he did. Like all managers, he makes mistakes. I don't know whether the mistake lies in not playing Butler or in recruiting him in the first place. You don't either.

Do we really need to go through all the poor players recruited by the great managers of our time? They've all done it, from Shankly to Mourinho and everyone in between. The only people who don't make mistakes are those who don't make decisions.

Your point is a poor one and does nothing to further your obvious agenda.
 

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