Fate? Media? Fans? Club?

[blader]

What is it about each club that gives them a reputation they simply cannot get rid of?

Today is a perfect example (and most of this season for that matter).
Sheffield United has always had a reputation for having an "up-n-at-'em" kind of mentality and are renouned for our 'hoofball' and our physical approach to the game.

Since relegation from the premier league we have had 4 managers.

1. Robson - poor record, granted. Boring, yes. Had a squad of brilliant players and was sacked after 6 months for attempting to play the ball on the floor at a slow pace. this ended terribly and quite rightly deserved to be sacked.

2. along comes mr.blackwell - hoofball, boring, repetitive, physical football. however, a brilliant win record got us within a sniff of the playoffs after robson and play off final the following year. (again, correctly sacked, but shocking timing)

3. Speed - young inexperienced manager. got the ball on the floor, and passed it around nicely. with a reasonable squad of players should have done better. left us in a mess.

4. adams - comes in, direct football, never-say-die and look: a recovery from 2 nil down and a first point in a while.

Anyone see a correlation here? unfortunately, we may have to face facts. SUFC will only ever be successful if we are a boring, long-ball team who get stuck into our opponents. The media dont like us, we never seem to get ANY referees in our favour, and neve seem to have a match without controversy.

However, our opponents today have had the adverse effect of this. Where is this barca football that we hear of? this free flowing football, with a tactical genuis creating magic on a tight budget? Doncaster have a reputation as a nicey-nicey team and are quite frankly, MASSIVELY over-rated. they are an average champ club and will never improve on that. Also, who on earth do their fans think they are? i have had a lot of time for donny, but theyre getting well ahead of themselves. 14th in the table, and i imagine that is where they will finish. So, congratulations on your point at Bramall Lane today.

I fear that fate is against SUFC, and however hard we try, the core of the club must never change if we intend to do well. We need to suck it up and give up on attempting to play the ball on the floor. Get T'Ball into t'box and smash it in.

UTB

 

[SwissBlade]

Nice summary Blader!

Fortunately or Unfortunately we've come full circle from Warnock and we're back to that 100% commitment, never say die, Blades on the pitch, Blades in the dug out and Blades on the stands - we're in it together type "United".

Yeah we'd love to give SoD time at a club like ours. He could probably turn us around into a Donny, West Brom or even Arsenal, but its not what we do is it?\

We've tried Robson's Crab football, Blackwell rescued us from that but stayed to long, we promoted from within when he left and Speedo tried to get us playing pretty stuff, but couldn't/ wouldn't finish the job. Leaving us in limbo. Which way do we go? Back to what we know a Blade with passion and knowledge of the lower leagues was the criteria and Micky got the job, chucking a scarf at his fans in a S. Yorks Derby with probably the lowest attendance in years. The passing dream over, we move on. Is it doom and gloom?

Performance wise, it wasn't pretty for most of the game. The game was scrappy, but...

Yesterday, the big tackles were what got the crowd roaring, the chasing the defenders down got us shouting "go on then", the pumped ball into the box creating "carnage" (words of Micky Adams) as it bounces about and then somehow, it ends up at the feet of the unflappable striker that looks like he doesn't give a fuck and he slams it home. The next falls to the lad that we let go to our lesser rivals, but got back and nobody wanted him and he rattles home a 96th minute equaliser.

Lets not kid ourselves, this is United.

 

[BusheyBlade]

I don't necessarily think it's as black and white as you either hoof it or play it nicely. Arsenal only have one way of playing, but it must annoy their fans at times when they are a goal down late on and still don't get the ball into the box. Manchester United and Chelsea play it both ways, depending on the match situation. I know we're a long way off such a comparison, but it shows that this style debate is a "grey" one.

I love to see passion in the game; hopefully MA can bring that back. The signs from yesterday look promising.

 

[JohnDenver]

We've played long ball for most of my time as a fan (started going regularly in '88). I think it's a reflection of our lack of money for most of that time. The one period in which we've spent big, we had the worst manager.

But the idea we're a club which is destined to play that way is nonsense.

 

[FleaPitBlade]

At what point did the length of a pass become the barometer for whether its pretty or not?

Theres a lot of crap talked about the gulf between long ball and a general status quo that the short passing game is the holy grail that we should all strive to achieve.

The fact of the matter is the best teams and players are those that utilise both styles in any game depending on what range of pass is (or isnt) available at any time depending on a million differing factors.

Nosworthy is a perfect example of a player that would be infinatly better if he learned to blast the ball into kingdom come from time to time.

 

[travellingblade]

......... Also, who on earth do their fans think they are? i have had a lot of time for donny, but theyre getting well ahead of themselves. 14th in the table............

Sorry Blader, but I don't agree with you on this one, currently they are the HIGHEST placed club from South Yorkshire, so that allows them CURRENT "bragging rights", or do you believe that they don't have these because they've got less supporters than us? ...... now where have I heard THAT before?

Please allow them their short time in the sun.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

Certain teams are always going to be pigeon-holed by the media but let's face it, for most of the last 30 years we have been a long ball physical team ! As many have said when this debate crops up every now and again, it's far too simple to label football as either 'good' or 'long ball', Chelsea for example can knock it around at times but can also be very direct up to Drogba. The best teams mix it up which is why Arsenal, despite being the best footballing side in recent times, have struggled to win the title whereas the likes Of ManUre and Chelsea know how to grind out results and play dirty, sorry physical when they need to.

In MA's 1st interview, he made it clear when RS kept questioning him about it that he wants winning football and if that means getting it in the box quickly to create many chances then so be it. I wouldn't say though that that's all they'll do in training. Time will tell but in the meantime, the media will be loving the chance to put us back in the old pigeon-hole, fine by me, let's hope the opposition think it'll be that easy to combat us.

I'd love us to knock it around AND show the passion and fight AND win games and maybe that will come but in the meantime, it seems that the old battling Blades might be back in the short term which might be just what we need at this moment in time (to coin a phrase !)

 

[lenners]

It'll be ok for the die-hards but long-term it'll drive even more fans away.
There's nothing that says United have to be longball to succeed.
Best team I've ever seen at the Lane was the most successful, probably since 1945, and did not play longball.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

It'll be ok for the die-hards but long-term it'll drive even more fans away.
There's nothing that says United have to be longball to succeed.
Best team I've ever seen at the Lane was the most successful, probably since 1945, and did not play longball.

'Long ball' was Wimbledon, us under early Bassett and a few others but my point is that it's used wrongly these days to describe anything not played by the 'big four' and certain other media darling clubs. You're not telling me that they didn't play 'long balls' in Stanley Matthews days or in the '66 world cup final etc etc There can be a big difference between getting the ball in the box quickly and 'long ball', particularly if you're playing with wingers which, it seems, MA wants to do.

 

[cooperblade]

Interesting that Adams said to the team at half time that he couldn't decided if they were a long ball side or a short ball side.

I think that for the majority of the time under our last few managers, including Warnock, we've played a fairly mixed style, the same as most sides at this level do.

Under Robson, the only noticeable difference was that 20 sideways passes would precede the long ball to the strikers. Everything just took much longer.

We were quite direct yesterday but the tempo in general was noticeably higher than under Blackwell or Speed. I thought it was a continuation of the good work that Carver started. Although poor defending has meant we haven't got the results, we look a much more dangerous side since Speed left and I think we'll score enough goals and, eventually, be difficult enough to beat to stay up relatively comfortably.

Not sure how deliberate it was or whether it was just a lack of options but it was the tallest United side we've seen for a while which has to be a good thing.

 

[Pinchy]

What a philosophy of despair! What a bunch of wimps! Get off your knees and have some pride in your club.

There is no unwritten rule that SUFC cannot play proper football. We did it for years under John Harris. Hoofball went out with Wimbledon and Dinosaur Dave. Why do you think we always fail at the last hurdle [Palace, Wolves, Wigan, Burnley et al]? I'll tell you. We get outplayed by better footballing teams.

I think you're suffering from inverted snobbery. I despair.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

Interesting that Adams said to the team at half time that he couldn't decided if they were a long ball side or a short ball side.

Yep, and it's quite often the case that a new manager makes the mistake of trying to impose his ideas without first seeing what he's got to work with. Blackwell inherited a good squad and got us playing well, it was only when he started to bring his own players in and changing his philosophy that it started to go wrong. No doubt MA has to get his 2 or 3 signings right this month.

Back to the original point, I think that's where Speed went wrong, he wanted to play 'nice' football but the position we found ourselves in after a run of defeats meant that he needed to keep it tight and get results first and foremost and I think he got caught in between the two and ended up achieving neither.

 

[SwissBlade]

The best teams are able to mix it up. Yesterday we got the ball out to the wings more than i've seen in a while, but when Boggy came on, the ball was being played into the strikers and getting laid off to Ched/ Boggy/ Yeates, so great movement towards the end and whilst the ball was getting chucked into the box late on, we were creating chances.... and guess what, it got us goals!

It won't work every time, but it reminded me of 2003 with the sleeves rolled up committed performance

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

It won't work every time, but it reminded me of 2003 with the sleeves rolled up committed performance

Indeed, when the memorable 2nd and 3rd play-off goals came straight from long Paddy punts down the middle !

 

[Highbury_Blade]

Good cross in by Monty at the end for the goal too.

 

[Trigger Blade]

It'll be ok for the die-hards but long-term it'll drive even more fans away.
There's nothing that says United have to be longball to succeed.
Best team I've ever seen at the Lane was the most successful, probably since 1945, and did not play longball.

Hang on, you've been banging on about the fans walking away because they've been lied to by the board, now you're bringing football into it, make your mind up.

For me, it was nothing to do with what the board told us, it was the really tedious nature of the Blackwell brand of negativity that put me off.

When Warnock arrived, we were getting crowds of 13,000, how would you explain the fact that they doubled over a period of time.? It certainly wasn't free-flowing total football, though, as with Bassett, we often played much better stuff than we were generally given credit for.

I think I might ask this question a lot in the coming weeks, but have you seen Port Vale play under Micky Adams? I have and it certainly wasn't longball, so what makes you think his band of football will drive more fans away? SOD was my choice, but I'm happy with Micky Adams as a fallback option.

 

[lenners]

Trig, you should tell Birchy.
He was the one doing the appointing and not knowing what brand of football we're going to get under Adams.

 

[JohnDenver]

Interesting that Adams said to the team at half time that he couldn't decided if they were a long ball side or a short ball side.

I re-read that quote a number of times and I'm still not certain whether he meant Donny or his own team.

 

[DuncDisorderly]

The biggest problem in all of this "hoof vs pretty football" is that football supporters are by and large f***wits who don't know jack about football. Witness the classic threads with different posters about Monty being either the best or worst player on the pitch every week. He can't be best AND worst at the same time you idiots.

So, these feeble brained morons have the opinions of the people who shout loudest, 'yes, he's shouting, and he sounds important, so yes, I want what he says. O'Driscoll, brilliant, just like Barca, yes, yes thats what I want'.

All this cock about this style and that style, its about the score when the ref blows for full time for Gods sake...


(Disclaimer: Some of the above may be a bit of an unfair generalisation and also a bit Tonge in cheek, but then again, I might mean it, who knows..?)

 

[Trigger Blade]

Trig, you should tell Birchy.
He was the one doing the appointing and not knowing what brand of football we're going to get under Adams.

I was asking you why you thought attendances would continue to drop, your view must be based on something? It apprently can't be based on what Birch has said. I'm not in the RS area, so I really don't know what he said, is there a direct quote from him that said that?

Pardon my ignorance, but I also genuinely don't know whether SOD was offered the job and turned it down, or didn't we get that far? Or is it all speculation?

 

[Gingerblade]

The biggest problem in all of this "hoof vs pretty football" is that football supporters are by and large f***wits who don't know jack about football. Witness the classic threads with different posters about Monty being either the best or worst player on the pitch every week. He can't be best AND worst at the same time you idiots.

So, these feeble brained morons have the opinions of the people who shout loudest, 'yes, he's shouting, and he sounds important, so yes, I want what he says. O'Driscoll, brilliant, just like Barca, yes, yes thats what I want'.

All this cock about this style and that style, its about the score when the ref blows for full time for Gods sake...

Well said that man

We dont really have to be either, it is possible to be a happy medium.

I think that United always thrive when we are underdogs, backs against the wall, with everyone on the outside hating us....I wouldnt have it any other way!
The passion, commitment, and getting stuck into the opposition yesterday got me out of my seat, not passing in triangles

 

[Pinchy]

Well said that man

We dont really have to be either, it is possible to be a happy medium.

I think that United always thrive when we are underdogs, backs against the wall, with everyone on the outside hating us....I wouldnt have it any other way!
The passion, commitment, and getting stuck into the opposition yesterday got me out of my seat, not passing in triangles

What great fun to be despised rather than admired! Is that really the extent of your ambition for our club? In 1971 TV commentators [Brian Moore specifically] were urging the nation to 'Go and watch Sheffield United next time they're in your area'. Now no-one would open their curtains to watch us in the garden for free. You lot can glory in that sort of garbage if you wish. I'll stay in the minority [on here, certainly not in the real world] with my standards.

 

[super_pig]

i've come to the conclusion pinchy that most on here get a kick out of being everyone hates us .. kick it in the air.. the passion.. merchants.. it's the years of bassett, warnock and hoofy.. i despair that we are in the minority mate

 

[DuncDisorderly]

Its not a popularity contest Pinchy. I saw the 1971 side in their pomp and it was lovely to watch but Woody and TC are well past their playing days and the game has moved on. The only people who should care about how we play is us, and we shouldn't care too much as long as we are getting results.

Footballs economics are on such a knife edge now-a-days. The prize for success is so enormous and the penalties for failing are so severe that playing anything other than a form of percentage football is madness and therefore mediocrity prevails from top to bottom of the league. I'll settle for another good cup run and a place in mid-table for now over the glowing admiration of other teams supporters...

 

[beightonblade]

All i want is passion ...............and i think Micky's brought it back !

 

[muttsnuts]

Well said that man

We dont really have to be either, it is possible to be a happy medium.

I think that United always thrive when we are underdogs, backs against the wall, with everyone on the outside hating us....I wouldnt have it any other way!
The passion, commitment, and getting stuck into the opposition yesterday got me out of my seat, not passing in triangles

Great post. I love to see a team with the passion we showed yesterday, for all donnys tippy tappy football they created bugger all. Theres nothing wrong with the physical direct game, its what gets the crowd going, in fact if Bassett and Warnock had played to their own teams strengths away from home instead of worrying about the opposition we would have stayed in the premier a lot longer.

 

[Tuns]

Given how many of the crowd were urging on- and enjoying - every tackle in that spell in the second half, I'd say the majority would be happy with some passion to start off with.

I take the point it would be great to play with style and I'd love to see a United team play that way after all these years.

But I realised against Donny that we never seem happier than when we are getting stuck in and playing high pressure football and getting the ball in the box.

We may well change our culture eventually but I don't think now is the time and I also think to be fair to MA for various reasons he has to play this way first before he can even consider a change.

In the meantime I suspect most of us will enjoy it - even if some of us don't admit it.

 

[Pinchy]

Its not a popularity contest Pinchy. I saw the 1971 side in their pomp and it was lovely to watch but Woody and TC are well past their playing days and the game has moved on. The only people who should care about how we play is us, and we shouldn't care too much as long as we are getting results.

Footballs economics are on such a knife edge now-a-days. The prize for success is so enormous and the penalties for failing are so severe that playing anything other than a form of percentage football is madness and therefore mediocrity
prevails from top to bottom of the league. I'll settle for another good cup run and a place in mid-table for now over the glowing admiration of other teams supporters...

It's all relative Dunc. Football has indeed moved on but it's SUFC that have been left behind. I can't think of any other team that 'enjoys' as bad a reputation as us for playing turgid, mind- numbing hoof. It's not as though it's even effective any more. Wimbledon are deceased; Dinosaur Dave is extinct. It's a self-serving misrepresentation to suggest that everyone wallows in the same mediocrity as we do. The vast majority of teams attempt to pass the ball and many do it to very good effect. We lap up Sunday League punts and laud nonentities like Kozluk and Montgomery. So called lesser teams run rings round us week-in:week-out. It's embarrassing but slightly less so than admitting that we actually enjoy this tripe. I'm ashamed to read the outpouring of drivel generated by a change of manager and a home draw against 10 man Donny.

Just in case anyone with any sanity is reading this: We are not all Neanderthals, they don't speak for me!

Try moving into the 20th century, eh?

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

It's all relative Dunc. Football has indeed moved on but it's SUFC that have been left behind. I can't think of any other team that 'enjoys' as bad a reputation as us for playing turgid, mind- numbing hoof. It's not as though it's even effective any more. Wimbledon are deceased; Dinosaur Dave is extinct. It's a self-serving misrepresentation to suggest that everyone wallows in the same mediocrity as we do. The vast majority of teams attempt to pass the ball and many do it to very good effect. We lap up Sunday League punts and laud nonentities like Kozluk and Montgomery. So called lesser teams run rings round us week-in:week-out. It's embarrassing but slightly less so than admitting that we actually enjoy this tripe. I'm ashamed to read the outpouring of drivel generated by a change of manager and a home draw against 10 man Donny.

Just in case anyone with any sanity is reading this: We are not all Neanderthals, they don't speak for me!

Try moving into the 20th century, eh?

Agree with what you're saying but you can't also blame people for lapping up the apparent outpouring of passion fom the players and noise from the crowd which, you'll have to admit, has been missing, the odd few games aside, pretty much since relegation.

 

[muttsnuts]

i've come to the conclusion pinchy that most on here get a kick out of being everyone hates us .. kick it in the air.. the passion.. merchants.. it's the years of bassett, warnock and hoofy.. i despair that we are in the minority mate

You can always go and watch Donny Rovers, just like the 1971 side-won sod all.