email from club - NO MORE TICKETS ON SALE IN KOP - standing & wrong seat usage

[Greasy Chap Butty]

Could we offer to store the shitty container things from Fargate in the car park to recoup some of the lost revenue?

I get the feeling that the club were initially sympathetic to the fact that there was an issue but have given an inch to the Council who are now trying to take a mile.

Is overcrowding really still happening to the extent the SAG claim?

From the South Stand, it doesn't look like persistent standing in the gangways is still an issue beyond the usual bottlenecks around half time.

I don't think so. We are further down the kop. When looking back, before all this, it was very full, and the very back sections we overflowed onto the main gangway to the side of the rear exits.
It isn't like that now.

 

[Balham]

For the Spurs game, give them the kop and we have the rest of the ground - sell out with 32000

It's a nice idea but the Kop holds somewhere around 10,000 (off the top of my head) and is by far the biggest stand in the ground.

 

[Greasy Chap Butty]

Where? I’ve been having a look across from the SS since this was a thing and I can’t see areas of overcrowding on the kop.

It was crowded at the back. Where the kop kind of goes behind / to one side of the rear exits used to be very crowded.
I can't verify the 3x thing. That is what Foxy passed on from the meeting, I've copied that post above.

In any case, it all seems so much fuss for something relatively simple to sort out.

 

[Greasy Chap Butty]

Thats the problem with the communications. They are not clear and concise. They haven't been from the start when they realised they'd confused the matter with safe standing. You have to read between the lines to work out what the current issue is. The first bullet point of Foxys note implies its people not sitting in their allocated seat. Does that mean congestion in gangways has gone away? improved? still a matter of concern?

As we are the only Club in the country who have stopped selling match day tickets has this improved matters, made it worse, no change. If there's no change why did we stop selling them in the first place as it would seem its a season ticket holder problem.

Wording stating we are not getting the desired results doesn't explain exactly what they are trying to achieve. Just come out and say what the aim is. What are the minimum requirements SAG/SCC have set i.e. There must be no-one throughout the stadium not sitting in their allocated seat. That would seem a totally unrealistic target bearing in mind the lack of focus on the away end but tells us what the expectations are rather than continuing to couch messages in vague terms. If you want to effect change explain it in simple terms that can't be misunderstood or misinterpreted.

Other Clubs affected seem to be concentrating on improved steward training and in some cases more robust stewarding. Are we considering this as a better solution to losing revenue? Ticket checks were mis managed before. Hopefully lessons will have been learnt.

I think the thing about stopping selling matchday tickets was partially a punishment, rather than a known fix.
However, vocal support from that area has gone off a cliff. So I guess people were moving there.
So, if they were season ticket holders, they are choosing not to sing in their proper seats, or they were day ticket people going there.

 

[cahill]

• We are repositioning our CCTV cameras in an attempt to highlight those not occupying their seat and potentially pick out those who will not comply with ground regulations

That I'd guess

Scare mongering.

 

[Original United]

It's a nice idea but the Kop holds somewhere around 10,000 (off the top of my head) and is by far the biggest stand in the ground.

We are not allowed to fill it, Spurs could.

Based on the figure of 10000 we would have 22000 home fans in, last night we could only have approx 16000 with a third of the ground empty (so some fans will miss out)

No brainer for me

 

[Bladeloyal]

Ask the boss

If a row has 40 seats it's impossible to get 120 on that row .square footage wouldn't accommodate them

 

[Snowflake]

Just so I can understand: Will this go away entirely if people simply just sit in the seat that they have been allocated?

If yes, why are people not sitting in the seat they have been allocated? Is it because they are cunts or is there another reason?

Point one.

 

[Greasy Chap Butty]

If a row has 40 seats it's impossible to get 120 on that row .square footage wouldn't accommodate them

I didn't write the report. That's what they are saying the problem is, including people stood in the gangways at the end.

Basically they need some stewards checking people are going down the correct seat row.

 

[Greasy Chap Butty]

We are not allowed to fill it, Spurs could.

Based on the figure of 10000 we would have 22000 home fans in, last night we could only have approx 16000 with a third of the ground empty (so some fans will miss out)

No brainer for me

That was our choice, not to do with ticketing restrictions forced on us.

 

[ton-up]

Point one.

Or it could be as other have said SCC, which is full of S6 tramps are trying to disrupt our season and any potential take over?

 

[Original United]

That was our choice, not to do with ticketing restrictions forced on us.

So are we allowed to sell the full capacity against Spurs?

 

[Booker4]

Whether we like it or not, disagree with the sanctions or not, it is what it is. And as fans we need to do our best to make sure we comply. Comparisons with the rest of the league or Hillsborough is not going to make any difference. What will help is fans sitting in their correct seat throughout the game until the final whistle and therefore NOT CONGREGRATING IN AISLES so they can get make a quick getaway. Now I'm not blaming anyone despite what the above might appear like, it is very annoying and anal, but the situation of ongoing scrutiny won't go away until we as fans do what they want us to do essentially.

 

[bartman]

Thanks for the update Foxy. It's disappointing that the council already seem to have reached an outcome on this, all whilst turning a blind eye to anything that happens at Hillsborough.

SAG have reduced the capacity at the Sty by around 5,000

 

[bartman]

Interestingly, around where I sit there are at least 4 people who don't sit in the seat that's on their season ticket card but everyone is happy as it enables them all to sit with family members rather than randomly sat apart

That isnt the issue,thou... nlocking gangways and 3 to a seat is the major concern. The Kop is normally about 90% full at least so the majority need to sit in there allocated seat anyway

 

[Greasy Chap Butty]

So are we allowed to sell the full capacity against Spurs?

Don't know. I assume they'd let us have the numbers on the kop we do on a league match.
That's a couple of thousand less than kop capacity I believe.
In any instance kop doesn't go to spurs.

 

[Sean Thornton]

SAG have reduced the capacity at the Sty by around 5,000

Different reasons though?

 

[Ainsley Harriott]

Simple solution would be to allow things as normal for an upcoming game. 10 or 15 minutes into the game, coppers go up to the usual problem areas and pull out anyone standing in aisles. Take their details. Refuse to give details, out you go. Copper or steward then shows them to their seat. Might take time but its only those missing the game, not me or thee.

As for people not in their seats.... Not easy. Unless it's 3 to 1 and obvious, what ya gonna do?

 

[Booker4]

In essence Foxy I think we as fans need more communication/specific instructions on exactly what is the issue as the post you put earlier wasn't specific enough. Maybe that will come with the further communications you mentioned?

 

[JJBlade]

I'll tell you what the issue is: Sheffield council are cunts

Exactly
Then allowing 33,000 + in the deathtrap
Absolute fucking wankers

 

[Working Class Hero]

Simple solution would be to allow things as normal for an upcoming game. 10 or 15 minutes into the game, coppers go up to the usual problem areas and pull out anyone standing in aisles. Take their details. Refuse to give details, out you go. Copper or steward then shows them to their seat. Might take time but its only those missing the game, not me or thee.

As for people not in their seats.... Not easy. Unless it's 3 to 1 and obvious, what ya gonna do?

It has to be people in the aisles doesn't it? Surely there is no issue me moving to an empty seat in a quieter area of the ground if I want to.

If that's the case though, why don't they just say it?

 

[Greasy Chap Butty]

It has to be people in the aisles doesn't it? Surely there is no issue me moving to an empty seat in a quieter area of the ground if I want to.

If that's the case though, why don't they just say it?

Was part of a meeting this evening in which representatives of SAG, SCC and Sheffield United were present, there will be more communications in the coming weeks, but my personal takeaway from what was said in summary (most of which has already been suggested in this thread) - This is by no means anything close to verbatim nor have I been asked to say particular things (we've never been in for that):

• The crux of the issue and the most pressing matter, as speculated in this thread, is the migration and occupying of specific areas outside of an individuals ticket resulting in overcrowding, blockages and an unsafe environment. In plenty of observed examples this is 3/1 or higher. Talking particular areas at the back of the Kop and the gangways/exits.
• The club have to tackle this, they can't simply ignore it and are ultimately responsible for safety of supporters, they want as many people in as possible, the best atmosphere possible, but have responsibilities to ensure that's in a safe manner.
• I think by the very fact there is some dialogue beginning, they accept or think that perhaps it could have been handled differently or that the original message perhaps has been misunderstood in terms of meaning. At the very least, they want dialogue and a co-operation with supporters rather than "us and them".
• SAG and SCC are currently working with the club, rather than against the club and have the same stated aims and can currently see that the club are taking the issue seriously and working towards improving things.
• The first real games that are properly affected by the temporary changes are approaching and will help identify particular potential causes/assist in tackling the core problem.
• The club are very unlikely to make any significant changes to the Kop on a piecemeal basis and anything of any consequence would be part of any larger redevelopment.
• Safe standing, rail seats etc would all have to be part of larger redevelopment and regardless of a want, a budget or anything else, a HUGE prerequisite of any of that being allowed would be for the current setup running without the kind of current issues. Put simply, parachute some rail seats [spoiler, we can't] in and we'd still have the same issue and problem to tackle, just in the "safe standing" area, rather than the seated area.
• Despite it seeming and "only targeting us" issue, other clubs are experiencing similar issues.

If people decide to ignore the appeals to stop the wrongdoing and abuse those trying to encourage changing their actions... problems will continue. If people start doing what they should, the problems will go away.

Happy to pass anything back the other way, this thread was mentioned multiple times during the evening and I'd never claim to speak on anyones behalf, but always happy to be a co-ordinator passing between.

 

[Webding]

UPDATE FOLLOWING FURTHER MONITORING AND CONVERSATIONS:

Think there will be more communication this week, but in essence, for at least Swansea and Middlesbrough:

• There will be enhanced ticket checking on the Kop for games going forward, we would request that supporters arrive in plenty of time to enable this process and to occupy the seat aligned with your season ticket
• We are repositioning our CCTV cameras in an attempt to highlight those not occupying their seat and potentially pick out those who will not comply with ground regulations
• The club is losing around £30,000 per game by not selling match tickets on the Kop (this is variable with ticket prices for varying for category of games)
• The club has received further communication from Sheffield Council praising our efforts so far but concerned that we are not getting the correct results. Council officers together with representatives of the Sports Grounds Safety Authority have been in attendance in recent games as we have taken time to monitor if our previous efforts have been successful
• The Council, as the certifying authority, could look to other enforcement alternatives.

Rather than that word salad, they should have gone with: “Want this to go away? Just sit (or stand) where your ticketed seat is, you daft bastards”

 

[Superblades]

I have to stand in my allocated seat due to the rows in front of me standing. What can I do about that? If I sit down, I’m not going to be able to see the match. Surely they can’t start picking people out on that.

 

[Bladeloyal]

Allways found : Safety officers :full of their own self importance ,and are very unlikely to back down ,I've been watching the kop most games and there's been no isle congestion when the games ongoing , like I've said before it's impossible for three people to occupy one seat area (no leg room ) yes there's a group of young knobheads . But surely wouldn't take much sorting out .

 

[Linz]

Rather than that word salad, they should have gone with: “Want this to go away? Just sit (or stand) where your ticketed seat is, you daft bastards”

I mean, knowing who the email came from, that's probably what he wanted to say

 

[S64 Blade]

SAG have reduced the capacity at the Sty by around 5,000

Not due to them persistently standing in the aisles, but due to the actual structure of the ground being unsafe. The former happens every game on their north stand by the Leppings Lane end.

They’ve also never done anything about the Leppings Lane lower. Despite all the history. Can you imagine us being allowed to sell tickets on a stand where 97 people had died and despite the continued complaints about it feeling unsafe by away fans.

 

[Davalon]

No mention of what is expected or required before normal service can be resumed?

People need to obey the requests and Stewards need to play a part too.

However, you'll not convince me there isn't more to this.

 

[jt64]

I have to stand in my allocated seat due to the rows in front of me standing. What can I do about that? If I sit down, I’m not going to be able to see the match. Surely they can’t start picking people out on that.

Nobody has an issue with that. Unless you've got two of your mates also standing at your allocated seat at the same time.

 

[originaltrueblade]

Snortbeasts in the council chamber