email from club - NO MORE TICKETS ON SALE IN KOP - standing & wrong seat usage

[Dkc]

We don't have a 'standing section ', we have an all-seater stadium. If you want to stand at football, go to Hallam or Sheffield FC.

Or Leeds. Or Palace. Or Millwall. Or Wolves. Or Forest. Or any of the other clubs where standing is tolerated.

 

[Rodley]

I foresee a future where we are forced to celebrate goals with jazz-hands only.

Imagine 20 young lads moving near you and doing jazz hands. Those trailing fingers could have an eye out. Whilst I don’t agree with it really, those lads should know that if you use jazz hands after a goal the SAG will chop their hands off, and if they continue to wave their stumps around outside of the Dedicated Celebration Moments, all our hands are coming off. This is 2042 and they’re the rules.

 

[Cassius Kray]

We now live in a society where a 50 odd year old potential paedophile bloke can stick a wig and high heels on and use the women's bogs, that young girls use and that's perfectly acceptable, yet you can't stand up with your mates at a footy match or have a beer whilst watching the game ... strange times

We now live in a society where some weird people think it's appropriate to shoehorn irrelevant transphobic comments into a conversation about standing on the Kop ... strange times.

 

[Rodders]

In the loudest section in the ground making alot of noise as usual! If people want to try to improve other areas aswell, best of luck to them! Hopefully people sat on their hands in the dead zones go and join.

I sit on the Westfield Corner; can’t hear fuck all from the Kop generally.

 

[AWetFlannel]

Not been in the kop for years, had a season ticket in there years ago, it was always the same at the back and was never really an issue IMO.... if they are throwing flares etc, by all means kick them out and ban the morons... but standing at the back making a noise isn't really a big issue surely!!?

We now live in a society where a 50 odd year old potential paedophile bloke can stick a wig and high heels on and use the women's bogs, that young girls use and that's perfectly acceptable, yet you can't stand up with your mates at a footy match or have a beer whilst watching the game ... strange times

 

[west_yorks_blade]

Does anyone know if any other club in the Football League has stopped sales to its fans because they stand up?

As I have said earlier, I have no problem with ensuring that people use their own seat, it is ridiculous at times trying to fight past people at the back of the kop who are blocking safety exits.

But the measures here seem not only draconian, but hugely disproportionate given that we know people stand at every ground, every match. Why are we singled out for this?

Surely there could have been some decent communications about this prior to such an escalation, pointing out the issues and drastic potential consequences. Ok the scrotes will have ignored them and may have had to be dealt with by stewards, but at least we could say we were warned. Its gone from 0-60 in a nano second.

 

[bartman]

The idea we should all simply sit down & not moan is comical and would absolutely kill the atmosphere in the ground. I attend the games because I enjoy the atmosphere. If I just wanted to watch I'd watch on TV.

You do know that the club haven't asked that you sit down all game,don't you ? The issues are to do with persistent standing aligned with fans not sitting in the seats they were allocated.

I would suggest that if fans sat/stood where their seats are, and didn't stand 2/3 to a seat and block gangways(,which they are doing at the back of the Kop, there wouldn't be an issue

 

[Harry's Game]

Does anyone know if any other club in the Football League has stopped sales to its fans because they stand up?

As I have said earlier, I have no problem with ensuring that people use their own seat, it is ridiculous at times trying to fight past people at the back of the kop who are blocking safety exits.

But the measures here seem not only draconian, but hugely disproportionate given that we know people stand at every ground, every match. Why are we singled out for this?

Surely there could have been some decent communications about this prior to such an escalation, pointing out the issues and drastic potential consequences. Ok the scrotes will have ignored them and may have had to be dealt with by stewards, but at least we could say we were warned. Its gone from 0-60 in a nano second.

Preston had the front of their Kop closed for two seasons I believe a while back.

 

[Muttley]

And one day you'll probs. find yourself as an old fella with the smallest, weakest of bladders getting up for a piss every 5 minutes & hopefully everyone will standup to let you pass

Sigh. Sarcasm is wasted on some people.

 

[bartman]

Does anyone know if any other club in the Football League has stopped sales to its fans because they stand up?

The Club aren't saying you can't stand up. Persistent standing,blocking gangways and congestion are the issues

 

[AWetFlannel]

I think the point was when people who are now 40+ stood at the back of the Kop the stand was all standing, not all seated.

When it became all seated fans got split up and the atmosphere did change of course.

The fundamental issue is that some fans actually do seem to think there is a standing and singing section where they are entitled to go and stand without regard to other fans who actually have seats in that area, probably for many years, and those fans should just disperse to other seats whilst the club and SCC ignore over crowding and breaking the requirement to be seated in the stadium.

You can't make a section bigger that doesn't actually exist, and pretending it does is what will lead to parts of the stand and potentially the whole stand to close, which is looking like a distinct possibility now.

There does need to be a discussion with the club about creating such a section, that has been stated many times in the past, but it won't be a quick or easy solution, and might well not occur until the stand is rebuilt and redesigned.

I imagine at other clubs, fans who want to sit down in these sorts of areas have dispersed, probably for the better.

For people that love using the word entitled, it can go both way. Someone who has sat on the Kop for 30 years feels entitled to have that seat permanently (why? it's not their seat), even if it means preventing hundreds of other fans watching the game in the way they'd like to.

Which is the more unreasonable request; to stand in an area of the ground known for standing at the football like thousands do up and down the country, or to stay in "your" seat because it's been your seat for years?

(Making the argument here, I do have genuine sympathy for those that would have to move.)

 

[brownblade]

Don't really know what to make of this. Me and my mates have season tickets on the Kop and we've always stood at the back of gangway E, but mine is the only ticket where my seat is actually situated where we stand. Me dad also joins us back there whenever he gets a ticket.

That makes it sounds like we're part of the problem and there's probably an argument to be made there. However, we've done this in the same spot for over ten years now and overcrowding has never really been an issue, with the possible exception of the big and important games where it's to be expected.

This season, our area has been horrendously overcrowded due to a large influx of younger supporters who seem to have come from nowhere. This lot don't seem to care if there's quite clearly no room for them to stand - they simply barge in and plonk themselves absolutely anywhere they can, even if it means penning people in behind them or completely obstructing the views of others. Furthermore, these young 'uns feel compelled to throw themselves about and swing their arms if we score a goal, meaning people falling over seats and knocking others over. I've no problem with going mad over a goal, but when you're potentially endangering others with your celebrations (including the very old fellow just in front and to the left of us who has been knocked down and lost his glasses already this season) then it becomes an issue.

I'm guessing things like this are why they've taken the action they have. As I say, I can't really complain too much because I attend the match with a gang of people who don't sit in their allocated seats. But it's a great shame to punish those who've never caused the issues and I don't think folk will be happy with this at all.

Hecky has said how much of a difference the fans can make when we make the noise. That ain't made by people sat down and being well behaved. There's a balance to be struck which I'd argue has been fine until this season when, at least where we are, people are squeezing into areas where there's quite clearly no room. I believe we may be moving stands for next season for the reasons outlined above.

Sounds like the yoof with their over-dramatised LIMBS™, as seen on YouTube, could be a big part of the problem.

 

[AWetFlannel]

Currently, there is nowhere within the stadium where fans can legally stand.

I get the need and desire for a standing area, no problem with it. As l’ve said. We don’t have one. Ergo…….

Round and round we go, without really disagreeing.

There is nowhere in most English stadia that fans can legally stand, and it isn't really an issue. To attack those that want to stand as though they are uniquely bad isn't fair.

 

[west_yorks_blade]

The Club aren't saying you can't stand up. Persistent standing,blocking gangways and congestion are the issues

I'm not disagreeing, but we know persistent standing happens every game every ground.

 

[west_yorks_blade]

Preston had the front of their Kop closed for two seasons I believe a while back.

Ah ok thanks - do you know the specific reasons cited?

 

[Harry's Game]

Ah ok thanks - do you know the specific reasons cited?

I think it was pitch invasions

 

[sitwell]

They won't rest until the atmosphere at football is gone

The council wont rest until they have killed Sheffield.

 

[Ndiayewillalwaysloveyou]

I think it was pitch invasions

Thought it had been closed for years with the poor crowds

 

[Moan? Nope-I saw Longhorn]

No, that hasn't crossed my mind being as people stand up a long way infront of us & because if anyone wanted to sit down they could very simply buy a seat in the 95% of the ground that always sits down. It's very simple. Don't buy a ticket in the small section that stands up if you would like to sit down.

Even more simple - don’t stand up - &/or (then) greet & moan when ,( however ‘unfair’) ’ the club / council / SYP apply further (already threatened) ‘sanctions’

& ‘away’?

 

[Dkc]

We can hopefully get work on rail seating started in the summer. Because let's face it we're not going to get a brand new kop anytime soon.

If we get promotion to the PL, we can afford it. If not, we'll be selling Sander Berge anyway, so let's agree to set some of that money aside.

People can say that 'fans should just follow the rules' all they like, but the reality is that there are hundreds of s/t holders who will not comply. There's no escaping that fact.

If the kop is under threat of closure, this is an urgent issue that needs to be sorted.

 

[west_yorks_blade]

I think it was pitch invasions

Ok thanks again.

So not for standing issues then.

I'm still wondering if any other club in the Football League has done anything like this before in response to standing issues?

If we were the only offenders I could understand it. But it happens at every game, every ground.

Are we really being uniquely singled out for punishment for this?

 

[sheepbridge]

I imagine at other clubs, fans who want to sit down in these sorts of areas have dispersed, probably for the better.

For people that love using the word entitled, it can go both way. Someone who has sat on the Kop for 30 years feels entitled to have that seat permanently (why? it's not their seat), even if it means preventing hundreds of other fans watching the game in the way they'd like to.

Which is the more unreasonable request; to stand in an area of the ground known for standing at the football like thousands do up and down the country, or to stay in "your" seat because it's been your seat for years?

(Making the argument here, I do have genuine sympathy for those that would have to move.)

I would argue that someone who has a season ticket for a seat is more entitled to be sat in that then multiple other fans who think it's in their singing / standing section and it doesn't matter if had for a week or 30 years.

Even if there is a safe standing and singing area, which I would fully support, it would still be limited by numbers. If there were 2000 such seats, 2000 tickets would be sold and only 2000 fans should be in that area. If there were many more fans in that area causing congestion, blocking gangways and exits we'd have exactly the same issue as we have now.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Or Leeds. Or Palace. Or Millwall. Or Wolves. Or Forest. Or any of the other clubs where standing is tolerated.

At last, someone mentions Palace.

Approach our problem one bite at a time. Firstly, the issue of too many people crowding into the back rows. Too many people trying to occupy (whether sitting or standing) too small a space. Trying to cram into the unofficial standing section. As others have pointed out, expanding the unofficial standing section would help. But, would require people with season tickets in the newly expanded unofficial standing section to relocate.

And, the club cannot make any reference to an expanded unofficial standing section, because you're not supposed to have an unofficial standing section. So, you have to call it something else, you have to expand a section without calling it the unofficial standing section.

Palace, in particular, have achieved this. They have a section of the ground, which they are actively looking to expand. You can submit a request to be allocated a seat in this expanded area, or to be moved away from this expanded area. Those savvy Saaaarf Londoners know that they can't say... Apply here if you want to be moved to the unofficial standing section ... The authorities would be all over them.

So, you actually apply to be relocated to the Holmesdale Fanatics section. It's a simple clever tweek. If you don't call it the unofficial standing section, it's easier to expand the unofficial standing section. And, it's a collective effort. The fans who want to sit and don't want to be part of the unofficial standing section and who might be relocated understand why. Because, their fellow fans are all part of the same initiative.

There's no finger pointing and name calling between fans (like there is on this thread).

But, as many, many people have pointed out on this forum - we don't want any of that Ultra shit here....

ULTRAS SECTION 21/22 - Holmesdale Fanatics Ultras cpfc

With the 2021/22 season set to be a big one, the group is re-opening the applications list for the Block E section. As outlined, we intend to build on the central section year on year and continue to group like minded supporters behind the goal as was the tradition back in the days of the …

hf05.org

 

[brownblade]

While they're installing the rail "safe" seating on kop, they can hopefully dp something to improve the acoustics (RE atmosphere reaching across the pitch). Someone on this forum is actually an acoustics expert (I forget who) and did say they'd contacted the club.

 

[tyke1889]

Can someone explain to me how rail seating is the solution to this problem.

You will still get the same dickheads trying to cram into the same areas they don't have tickets for.

 

[Klaatu Barada Nikto]

I imagine at other clubs, fans who want to sit down in these sorts of areas have dispersed, probably for the better.

For people that love using the word entitled, it can go both way. Someone who has sat on the Kop for 30 years feels entitled to have that seat permanently (why? it's not their seat), even if it means preventing hundreds of other fans watching the game in the way they'd like to.

Which is the more unreasonable request; to stand in an area of the ground known for standing at the football like thousands do up and down the country, or to stay in "your" seat because it's been your seat for years?

(Making the argument here, I do have genuine sympathy for those that would have to move.)

Well, their entitlement aligns with the fact they have a seat and have been sitting in it for years , whereas the people who are causing this problem their entitlement stems from them wanting to stand wherever they want.

 

[AWetFlannel]

Can someone explain to me how rail seating is the solution to this problem.

You will still get the same dickheads trying to cram into the same areas they don't have tickets for.

Because they try to cram into the area that has standing. The area is too small. A larger section of rail seating would give those that want to stand an area they can fit in.

 

[BLADES1988]

Well well well, if it isn't the start of our downfall. The club alienating its most loyal fans. What could possibly go wrong hmmmm

 

[Linz]

Well well well, if it isn't the start of our downfall. The club alienating its most loyal fans. What could possibly go wrong hmmmm

Says who?

I think the reference to standing has obscured the issue and some haven't read any further than that.

It's the standing in an area where you haven't been allocated a seat that's the real issue, causing overcrowding and subsequently spilling out and blocking gangways.

 

[AWetFlannel]

Well, their entitlement aligns with the fact they have a seat and have been sitting in it for years , whereas the people who are causing this problem their entitlement stems from them wanting to stand wherever they want.

Why does sitting in it for years give you the right to anything? The club decides to allow people to retain their seats, but it isn't a right.

These other people don't want to stand "wherever they want". Who would defend people standing in the middle of the Family Stand? The bias in the way you word it won't allow you to engage with this fairly.