Donny Debacle

[alcoblade]

We may as well pack up then.
If what we saw tonight from Sheffield United is just an expression of a balance sheet, we are all wasting our time.
The reality is we're a club losing all identity with a leadership that apparently doesn't give a flying.
Perhaps they'll understand when it hits the balance sheet with another 5,000 season ticket holders lost next year.

Len, I agree with a lot oif what you say. But where does the money come from? If we haven't got it, we haven't got it. Having a demanding manager doesn't pay for anything. We need to offload the overpaid players we're filled with and gradually replace them with some craft and pace. Time, patience and lots of heartache. There's no quick win here.

UTB

---------- Post added at 12:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:36 AM ----------

The team we played Alco - do you think their players are paid more or less than ours?

A lot less. We've got a lot of expensive average players. See my above response.

UTB

 

[diplomat]

I like the fact that the official site has added an article called "get your kit on" - I take it I'm getting a game on Saturday then?

Seriously though, people have asked for a positive from today, and for me it was the fans who went

Agreed - well done all those who went - I opted for £20 on the grin up north comedy festival and some beers and I'm very pleased I did. . . people will be forced to change as the punter makes some decisions on where their "entertainment" or basic loyalties lie as we all get squeezed over the next couple of years

 

[shorehamview]

Considering that Donny play such "attractive" football why were there only 8,985 people there? I know it was on the telly, but if Donny are so great why aren't more people watching them? When they weren't on the telly against Forest they only had a crowd of 9,000. From what I saw last night Donny do play "nice" football, so why don't they get more people sat in those vast swathes of empty seats? It's got a capacity of just over 15,000. Plenty of room for those who like proper football. All the disgruntled Blades fed up of watching shite could easily make up the shortfall.

 

[SwissBlade]

Considering that Donny play such "attractive" football why were there only 8,985 people there? I know it was on the telly, but if Donny are so great why aren't more people watching them? When they weren't on the telly against Forest they only had a crowd of 9,000. From what I saw last night Donny do play "nice" football, so why don't they get more people sat in those vast swathes of empty seats? It's got a capacity of just over 15,000. Plenty of room for those who like proper football. All the disgruntled Blades fed up of watching shite could easily make up the shortfall.

Extremely interesting point SV. Against us last season they got 13000 and the season before 14000 (albeit with better away support from us)

Our drop in support has been blamed on Blackwell, McCabe, selling players, crap football etc yet Donny have had a big drop in attendances despite making their record signing this season, having a cracking chairman, very good manager and playing a really attractive form of football

Looking at the table, their brand of football hasn't been much more effective than ours, but all the excuses that some on here insist are the reason for dropping attendances at the lane aren't held up by the same drops at Donny. Perhaps people just don't have the cash to spend...

 

[alcoblade]

Looking at the table, their brand of football hasn't been much more effective than ours, but all the excuses that some on here insist are the reason for dropping attendances at the lane aren't held up by the same drops at Donny. Perhaps people just don't have the cash to spend...

Because however hard we all try and complicate it, it's all about winning. Doing it nicely is a bonus.

But you're right, it's far too expensive. £28 for a televised division 2 match. It cost me £60 to take the kids and I was bored shitless. What a complete waste of money. Let's hope Pompey go bust and football can start learning a few lessons.

UTB

 

[SwissBlade]

Let's hope Pompey go bust and football can start learning a few lessons.

UTB

Doesn't look likely now, they're out of administration as of today

 

[raul]

Even at 9000, it's about a 900% increase in eight years or so and I'd say the real reason is that it's a poor town, with no history as a club so most of it's footballing populace has always gone elsewhere and has probably got a glass ceiling of around 12,000 until generations are taken there instead of Leeds etc by their antecedents.

As a club, what they have achieved is remarkable and desrves credit rather than mealy mouthed carps.

 

[Micalijo]

Correct Raul. Nowt winds me up more than reading about Donny 'only' being in mid table in second tier of football. Ok, maybe McCabe and his property bollocks winds me up a bit as well.

 

[lenners]

Remarkable. We actually have fans who choose to have a go at a club whose support has increased massively in less than a decade, who have a football team significantly better than ours instead of looking at what we're doing, at where we're going.

 

[alcoblade]

Remarkable. We actually have fans who choose to have a go at a club whose support has increased massively in less than a decade, who have a football team significantly better than ours instead of looking at what we're doing, at where we're going.

Aye, the next thing we'll be doing is hounding the manager out after only 10 games.



UTB

 

[lenners]

Aye, the next thing we'll be doing is hounding the manager out after only 10 games.



UTB

Who's hounding the manager out?
This is about way more than the manager but if he's a man of integrity and has been told he could do things he now can't he's letting himself down, the club down and the fans down by doing nothing about it.

 

[SwissBlade]

Remarkable. We actually have fans who choose to have a go at a club whose support has increased massively in less than a decade, who have a football team significantly better than ours instead of looking at what we're doing, at where we're going.

As opposed to yourself who chooses to pick every little hole within our own club and throw his own conspiracies into why things aren't as good as they could be.

---------- Post added at 10:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:54 AM ----------

Who's hounding the manager out?
This is about way more than the manager but if he's a man of integrity and has been told he could do things he now can't he's letting himself down, the club down and the fans down by doing nothing about it.

But you don't know what he's been told do you? You're assuming too much and making the conclusion suit your negative agenda.

Where were these comments this week Lenners? Why choose to flair up your agenda after a very poor performance and not after two decent results in the past week.

 

[lenners]

Swiss, I seem to recall Speed saying he had room to maneouvre when he took the job.
I heard a very different man answering questions after the match last night.
The absolute failure in leadership at our club isn't some wild conspiracy. It's in the season ticket numbers, it's in the lack of atmosphere, it's in the numbers going to away games, it's in the body language of the players, it's in the void at the top of the club from a chairman who barely says a dicky bird anymore.
They're not little holes, are they.

 

[JohnDenver]

I'm going to stick up for Alcho on this thread.

The idea that Speed is regretting taking the job is nonsense. He's an intelligent bloke who knew the resources he had to work with. I like what he's trying to do, and I realise his hands are tied.

Looking at our squad, and regardless of how we got into this position, I made them clear second-favourites to succeed at Donny. Yes the performance was crap, but we're a mid-table team. Some days we'll look good, some days we'll look poor.

Unless the squad shows a Robbo-style collapse in spirit, I want to see Speed given three years to succeed. I want to see him playing the youngsters for the sake of next season and season after, not just this one. I want to see his footballing philosophy given time to permeate the club.

It's time to fasten seatbelts, look to the future and support the manager.

 

[SwissBlade]

Swiss, I seem to recall Speed saying he had room to maneouvre when he took the job.
I heard a very different man answering questions after the match last night.
The absolute failure in leadership at our club isn't some wild conspiracy. It's in the season ticket numbers, it's in the lack of atmosphere, it's in the numbers going to away games, it's in the body language of the players, it's in the void at the top of the club from a chairman who barely says a dicky bird anymore.
They're not little holes, are they.

Priceless Lenners, you're on form today

Room for maneouvre - tell me what that means? Does it mean he has cash to spend? does it mean that he can dabble in the loan market? does it mean that he can bring who he wants through the academy into the first team?

Failure at our club - Does it affect those things directly or is it that there are other factors involved?

Season ticket numbers - You talk about other things you know little about - such as dropping attendances etc. I said before that your conspiracy of people not renewing because of Blackwell haven't exactly got people back, so that was obviously bollocks

Away attendances - again you don't know what the reasons are for this. I've been to Donny the last two seasons, but because it was on TV and because I was home last week and next its fallen at a bad time.

The body language of the players - Classic Lenners! classic. Would you be happy if they were ecstatic on 93 mins? Their body language was very different on 94 mins last week.

Chairman - We actually hear a fair bit from the Chairman when needed, Birch. However, he doesn't manage the team, the manager does, so i'd rather hear from the man that picks the team than the money man.

 

[alcoblade]

Who's hounding the manager out?
This is about way more than the manager but if he's a man of integrity and has been told he could do things he now can't he's letting himself down, the club down and the fans down by doing nothing about it.

Len, you know sweet fuck all about what demands Speed is placing on the board. Do you expect him to spout about it on local radio? You know nothing so you fill in the gaps to get your bandwaggon rolling on your latest hate campaign against the club. God knows, they've given you plenty to go at, so stop making them up.

UTB

 

[Willie Carlin]

My thoughts on Donny game and beyond..... ...

That was utterly depressing. It was almost like our players knew they were going to lose from the start. They never turned up from minute one. There was no fight, no football, no grit, no organisation. Nothing. There was not one positive from the whole game. It was awful. Sure we were better in the second half but Donny had took their foot off the gas and were coasting. As they said on the BBC it was so easy. I think even the beeb could not believe how bad we were. The tactics were wrong as we had nothing up front but we had 5 in midfield and still got out footballed so even if we harp on about systems and tactics if 8 or 9 players have utter stinkers what do you do? I do agree with Speed; whislt there is no doubt Doncaster have better footballers/players I at least thought we would battle and win loose balls but Doncaster won all those too.


Regardless of their poor performances though it also showed that most of these 8 or 9 are not good enough and Doncaster clearly have better footballers than us. Watching cloggers like Ertl, Quinn, Nosworthy, Morgan and Cresswell chasing shadows should be a worrying sign for our board. Our side lacks skill, pace, creativity anf goals but now for the first time in a number of years also lacks passion and bottle. Without these qualities this side COULD go down.

The silence from Birch and McCabe says it all. The former said our squad was good enough to be around the top 6 and the latter said we would not rely on loans again and would build for the future with players who would be around long term. Neither has happened. The fact they have gone silent says it all. We have no direction from the board at the moment. More importantly we have no investment to improve our failing team.

We cannot get investment and are stuck with an inept squad that has got worse season after season for the last few years (selling or losing Naughton, Walker, Kenny, Cotterill, Halford, Naysmith, Beattie, Kilgallon etc) and not replacing them. I think the board and the manager are powerless to stop the inevitable and the inevitable being hat this season will be a relegation battle (I know it is early but we cannot score goals and cannot stop them) and I feel Speed knows this.

It is clear we are skint (for whatever reason) and he cannot bring anyone in. He cannot change the side as we have noone else to bring in (Taylor, Monty, Evans are even worse than those playing!) so the present incumbents know they wll retain their places. Speed seems unable to change things and if anything the football we played in the opening few games has just faded away. We are lumping it as much as ever. I feel sorry for him as he cannot even get them playing football as they can't do it. They seemed to be getting there but old habits die hard and most of the team have almost accepted they do not have the skills to play football and are just kicking it.

Speed is probably regretting taking the job now. Whether he was promised new players or not you are not telling me he has not identified players he could bring in but it is clear the board are stopping any incomers. My fear is that he will just say sod this for a game of soldiers and walk at the end of the season and we will be back to square one. The whole squad needs a complete overhaul from top to bottom. There is maybe only 3 or 4 players out of the squad of 20-22 that I would actually keep moving forward. It is hard saying that but the rest are just not good enough.


Simonsen - No chance on either goal and made one or two other saves but he looked as shaken as the rest of the defence as crosses and shots bounded in on him. Would hate to be playing behind that lot at the moment. 6.5/10

Calve - Not good enough. I keep getting criticised for saying he is not good enouygh for this level and today proved it for me. Everyone says he should be played further forward but after his first few games (with some decent crosses and the wonder goal) his crossing and passing has been wretched. His is too weak physically and makes bad mistakes defensively. Was badly at fault for the second goal (amongst others) when he let his man run beyond him. Another one that is just playing as we have noone else. 3/10

De Laet - Lost Coppinger numerous times and whilst showed a few decent touches going forward his lack of concentration and ability to do the basics has cost us badly with him being at fault for the first goal (again amongst others). Under normal circumstances I would send him back to Man Utd as he has not really been great but then we have Taylor who is even worse. Our full backs are utterly appalling. 4/10

Morgan - Tried hard but the team was falling apart around him and he seemed as lost as them reverting to booting and heading the ball away. Against better footballers he showed his limitations as he got turned/passed around easily. 4/10

Nosworthy - Embarrasing. Bringing him back for a season was an awful decision. He cannot kick the ball, head the ball nor even do the basics. He is a mistake waiting to happen. We should see if we can terminate his loan but unfortunately as with walton probably are stuck with his wages fot the season. At least we can drop him and bring Bartlett back in. 3/10

Britton - Has been up and down all season. Had some excellent games and showed his ability on the ball but had some Howard/Harper games too. Whatever fault against the others and the formation I expect more than what he showed today where he was as bad as the rest. Gave the ball away and was outclassed by Oster, Woods and Stock. Thing is if he played in the Doncaster team he would fit in well despite today being an off day. 5/10

Quinn - Awful. Another one who gets a shirt as we simply have noone else (although some of the kids in the Academy really could do no worse). Always on the floor and he gives the ball away I would say 7/10 times when he has it. Offers utterly nothing but points and gesticulates like others are letting him down. The decision to award him a new contract was an appalling football decision by Birch and Blackwell. 3/10

Ertl - Never noticed him and did not even know he was playing. He looks like he does not even know what his role is and seems a signing that was just another waste of resources. 3/10

Yeates - Never in the gamer first half. At least he got a few crosses in and tried to make something happen. probablhy his wirst game for some weeks and still scores higehr than most of the team. Says it all. 5/10

Cresswell - Same as evey other week. Does nothing at all. Never wins a header, barely touches the ball, looks slow oh and for extra measure today he missed a sitter. Keeps his place as we have noone else. I would give the kid Slew a few games. He simply cannot do any worse. 1/10

Bogdanovic - Offside about 10 times. Never touched the ball and looked disinterested. The system did not help him but he could have at least put himself about. 2/10

Subs

Ward - Played 40 minutes and was our best player easily. At least he got involved, ran at defenders and tried to get in on goal, Nearly scored and could have won a penalty. Why was he not starting? 6/10

Lowton - Came on but did not have much of an impact but it was all too late then.

Slew - Had one good chance but fluffed it and went wider than he needed to. Felt sorry for him being given only 5 minutes. Should have been given longer to make an impact.

Doncaster - Excellent but playing against a team of dustbins so any praise has to be reserved. My 5-a-side team would have beat the Blades today. Woods, Stock, Coppinger were given all the time in the world. the defence were never pressure and Sharp and Hayter were playing two slow centre backs that stood off them all game. The right back was very good but he was faced with no pressure either. I dont feel they will go up but may flirt with the playoffs. The fact that the ground was half empty (regardless of the United numbers) says it all. They will not be ever able to go much higher than where they are unless Ryan chucks even more silly money in. I can see them maybe being around edge of playoffs this year and even next but Sean O'Driscoll will go onto bigger and better things and then they will tail off. Fair play to them though with a far lower wage bill and far less support/infrastructure they outclassed us and actually should have won by more.

Sorry to not be more positive but today was as bad as the Bristol City performance on TV 3 years ago under Robson; which was a similarly bad performance lacking passion and spine. At least Speed apologised to the fans after the game and at least I feel he does know that the team is not good enough. As I have said though I am not sure what he can do to arrest the slide. Boro (with a far better squad than us) are showing what can happen and I am fearful of how we are going to get enough points and goals to stay in this division.

Both full backs were at fault with the goals as you say. Lowton didn't show because he was brought on to cover for the weak defending of Calve. It was on the cards for Sharp to win it for Donny which he did with his assist for the first and scoring the second. Billy certainly stuck it up those that wanted rid of him.

 

[lenners]

Len, you know sweet fuck all about what demands Speed is placing on the board. Do you expect him to spout about it on local radio? You know nothing so you fill in the gaps to get your bandwaggon rolling on your latest hate campaign against the club. God knows, they've given you plenty to go at, so stop making them up.

UTB

OK, let's simplify this.
Speed takes job on knowing he's got a terrible mis-match of players desperately in need of fresh impetus.
If I recall correctly, both Speed and Birch said there would be room for maneouvre to bring new players in.
If this wasn't true, one or both was lying to the supporters.
If Speed was lied to - and he sounded like a broken man already when talking about loans/transfers last night - what good is it doing anyone for him to remain silent about it or to do nothing about it?
We've already had a summer of complete bullshit from the club about not relying on loanings etc. We've already got fans turning away - and many more will do so next summer - precisely because they do not believe in SUFC anymore.
This is the issue. Leadership. It has to come from somewhere. More half-truths, blind eyes, remaining in denial will just result in more disillusion and smaller crowds as fans just think what exactly is the point of SUFC at the moment.

 

[Paulus]

OK, let's simplify this.
Speed takes job on knowing he's got a terrible mis-match of players desperately in need of fresh impetus.
If I recall correctly, both Speed and Birch said there would be room for maneouvre to bring new players in.
If this wasn't true, one or both was lying to the supporters.
If Speed was lied to - and he sounded like a broken man already when talking about loans/transfers last night - what good is it doing anyone for him to remain silent about it or to do nothing about it?
We've already had a summer of complete bullshit from the club about not relying on loanings etc. We've already got fans turning away - and many more will do so next summer - precisely because they do not believe in SUFC anymore.
This is the issue. Leadership. It has to come from somewhere. More half-truths, blind eyes, remaining in denial will just result in more disillusion and smaller crowds as fans just think what exactly is the point of SUFC at the moment.

I can't disagree with your general point that we are drifting downwards but the truth about any football club is that the 4 essential elements to a club, the fans, the players, the manager and the owner feed of each other in a virtuous circle when things are going well and conversely drag each other down when things are going the other way. Changing the manager is the easiest of the four to alter and hopefully that change will kickstart a reversal of fortunes which changes the attitudes and actions of the other three. If changing a manager doesn't spark a virtual immediate change in fortunes then it's hold onto your hats time.

Sacking Blackwell and appointing Speed clearly hasn't led to an immediate change of fortunes so now we are faced with a very nervy time which hopefully will result in a fundamental change to the club. There are plenty of examples of this experience, Ferguson at Man Utd took 18 months and alledgedly came down to a win or be sacked match before he started to get to see the results he wanted, Clough at Derby last season went through a very bleak time but he seems to be moving in the right direction now.

The clear worry to us of course is that Speed is untested in this situation. The next 3 months are a defining time for him as a manager, I believe that the majority of Blades fans recognise this and will give him time but if we are in the bottom three at the end of January the knives will start to be sharpened, he needs to start being awkward and bloody unpleasant to a few people and pin his colours to the mast. He is widely praised for his media image but this counts for nowt in the situation he is in at the moment, good coaching and tactics, moving on the deadwood, spotting and bringing in new talent and forcing open the purse strings from above are the order of the day, if he can't do it he'll be gone before the end of the season and the decline will continue. Come of Age Speedo.

 

[Micalijo]

Priceless Lenners, you're on form today

Room for maneouvre - tell me what that means? Does it mean he has cash to spend? does it mean that he can dabble in the loan market? does it mean that he can bring who he wants through the academy into the first team?

Failure at our club - Does it affect those things directly or is it that there are other factors involved?

Season ticket numbers - You talk about other things you know little about - such as dropping attendances etc. I said before that your conspiracy of people not renewing because of Blackwell haven't exactly got people back, so that was obviously bollocks

Away attendances - again you don't know what the reasons are for this. I've been to Donny the last two seasons, but because it was on TV and because I was home last week and next its fallen at a bad time.

The body language of the players - Classic Lenners! classic. Would you be happy if they were ecstatic on 93 mins? Their body language was very different on 94 mins last week.

Chairman - We actually hear a fair bit from the Chairman when needed, Birch. However, he doesn't manage the team, the manager does, so i'd rather hear from the man that picks the team than the money man.

He is on great form Swiss. Very enjoyable and sensible stuff.

When you mentioned the word bollocks above, it reminded me of your 'the summer went pretty well' post. You are the man Swiss when it comes to all things SUFC.

 

[beightonblade]

fookin hell................ anybody wud think there are problems at BDTBL ................. relax everything will be hunky dory ! remember we've got the best chairman we've ever had ......an whats more he's a Blade with ambition ! ....he said so.

 

[bricktop]

The bottom line is the buck has to stop with the players.

They need to be going out there and putting a shift it, and playing for professional dignity

 

[Rudders]

The bottom line is the buck has to stop with the players.

They need to be going out there and putting a shift it, and playing for professional dignity

Bang on mate. If they don't then Speed needs to get rid of them pronto and start work with some that do. It shouldn't need the half time bollocking to get them going each time.

I think Cressy, Monty, Quinn (senior pros) etc need to take a long hard look at themselves and support their manager with some improved performances. He needs them to perform to keep us in this division

 

[gavtheblade]

the best thing about the game yesterday was deano`s brown leather 1980`s jacket.

 

[SteelCity Blade]

I haven't posted much on here this week but I thought I would add my ten penneth in regard to last night. The most depressing part was my complete lack of surprise and shrugging of the shoulders on both goals. In truth I could see it coming from the first whistle and knew immediately after the first goal that there would be no reply.

I'm not even angry at the team or the manager. The former is a bunch of players trying extremely hard but lacking in ability and the latter has literally nothing to work with. He has bitten off far more than he can chew at such an early stage of his career but I still feel he is a victim of the circumstances.

I've seen good United sides and ive seen bad ones, but ive never seen one that can bore me for a full ninety minutes quite like this one can! We lack direction, ingenuity and guile all over the park and rely solely on our ability to battle. Unfortunately we were also second in that department last night as Donny were first to absolutely everything.

United will stay up and they will do it comfortably.....only because the division is piss poor. We have just enough about us to avoid serious trouble and thats all we can take from the current situation. As long as we can avoid many more performances like last night because it was as poor as anything ive seen from anyone this season.

My message to the dreamers and optimists.....dream more long term. Forget this season and the next. I would be astonished if we were back in the top flight in the next 5 years. We have a long, long, long, long road back.

UTB

 

[chipsncake]

The bottom line is the buck has to stop with the players.

They need to be going out there and putting a shift it, and playing for professional dignity

Don't agree Brownie, as with any business the buck stops with the gaffer, and ours is nowhere to be seen.