Doing the Same Thing?

[ThirdGenBlade]

If insanity is doing the same thing when it doesn’t work, what is the opposite - when something does work and you don’t do it again?

On Tuesday BBD came off, Shack replaced him and played on the right, Rom moved to the left - and we won.

So on Saturday, BBD came off, Shack replaced him ..and Blaster replaced Rom!

The excuse - Rom was knackered! Well at least give him 10 minutes on the left, where he was way more effective, just to see.

Even better, of course - learn from your best decision of the season and play him on the left in the first place!

UTB & FTP!

 

[pollster]

If insanity is doing the same thing when it doesn’t work, what is the opposite - when something does work and you don’t do it again?

On Tuesday BBD came off, Shack replaced him and played on the right, Rom moved to the left - and we won.

So on Saturday, BBD came off, Shack replaced him ..and Blaster replaced Rom!

The excuse - Rom was knackered! Well at least give him 10 minutes on the left, where he was way more effective, just to see.

Even better, of course - learn from your best decision of the season and play him on the left in the first place!

UTB & FTP!

Says it all that Wilder thinks it is more important to get our current most dangerous attacker
to exhaust himself trying to help out the unfit and incapable fullback but Wilder favourite Choudhury
rather than win the game for us
or God forbid entertain us.
But the players are to blame for the loss not him.

 

[A Storm of Blades]

Or maybe build patterns of play and deploy tactics more sophisticated than smacking it from fullback to their 18 yard box?

Wilder either does not or, as I’m starting to believe, cannot coach players to a capable level in the modern game. It’s patently obvious that players aren’t operating in a cohesive system, they don’t seem to instinctively move into shapes when scenarios unfold in the game, as you would expect. It’s clear none of this practiced or worked in training. It’s pinball, ricochet stuff hoping for a break of the ball, a flick, a mistake. At best our attacking approach is give it to Gus Donovan and see what happens.

I honestly don’t know why he’s signed midfielders, they just gather in the middle looking up at the sky like pedestrians trying to figure out how someone managed to hang a bag of dog shit off the top of a lamppost. Which even then they do fucking slowly.

 

[SwissBlade]

If insanity is doing the same thing when it doesn’t work, what is the opposite - when something does work and you don’t do it again?

On Tuesday BBD came off, Shack replaced him and played on the right, Rom moved to the left - and we won.

So on Saturday, BBD came off, Shack replaced him ..and Blaster replaced Rom!

The excuse - Rom was knackered! Well at least give him 10 minutes on the left, where he was way more effective, just to see.

Even better, of course - learn from your best decision of the season and play him on the left in the first place!

UTB & FTP!

Rom was effective on Tuesday down the right wing as well. He got space for his goal on the left because we cut out a ball after our attack broke down. Phillips then played him in and he did very well to finish.

I agree that giving him a free role to switch would work too.

Problem is we don’t have the depth to replace him whilst Chong is injured

Yesterday the problem was defensive, again

 

[HOT CURRIE 10]

Or maybe build patterns of play and deploy tactics more sophisticated than smacking it from fullback to their 18 yard box?

Wilder either does not or, as I’m starting to believe, cannot coach players to a capable level in the modern game. It’s patently obvious that players aren’t operating in a cohesive system, they don’t seem to instinctively move into shapes when scenarios unfold in the game, as you would expect. It’s clear none of this practiced or worked in training. It’s pinball, ricochet stuff hoping for a break of the ball, a flick, a mistake. At best our attacking approach is give it to Gus Donovan and see what happens.

I honestly don’t know why he’s signed midfielders, they just gather in the middle looking up at the sky like pedestrians trying to figure out how someone managed to hang a bag of dog shit off the top of a lamppost. Which even then they do fucking slowly.

Haha that’s a great analogy.
I’ve watched “How do they do that “ but it’s never been explained.

 

[Nick Jansky]

Rom was effective on Tuesday down the right wing as well. He got space for his goal on the left because we cut out a ball after our attack broke down. Phillips then played him in and he did very well to finish.

I agree that giving him a free role to switch would work too.

Problem is we don’t have the depth to replace him whilst Chong is injured

Yesterday the problem was defensive, again

Defence starts from the front, always has. It must be extremely wearing to be a defender behind a midfield that can be strolled through with the minimum of effort.

 

[SwissBlade]

Defence starts from the front, always has. It must be extremely wearing to be a defender behind a midfield that can be strolled through with the minimum of effort.

Sure, but then ends when the defenders have to actually defend

 

[Champagneblade]

Defence starts from the front, always has. It must be extremely wearing to be a defender behind a midfield that can be strolled through with the minimum of effort.

That’s why if you don’t have the legs then you pick a system that has the bodies.

It was hugely disappointing to replace McGuinness with Kitching and then ship three.

But as has been stated the nature with which teams cut through us is worrying.

There are so many combos but I’d have perhaps Phillips as ball player, have Choudhury maybe as ball winner and then maybe get Rothwell on the ball to play more forward passes.

Arblaster still getting fitter. Peck needs a rest and Jairo hasn't really hit form yet.

That midfield and then it depends on the rest of the system. I might try BBD and Bamford up front if we went 5 at the back but then that means dropping Donovan.

So I’d lean towards a back four and a front 3 of BBD, Bamford and Donovan. I’d also consider using Campbell as a wide option as an alternative to BBD or Donovan; he’s actually played 58 times in a wide position; 20 goals and 15 assists in those matches. This aspect of his history seems to have been lost a little.

 

[mattbianco1]

So on Saturday, BBD came off, Shack replaced him ..and Blaster replaced Rom!

He was consolidating the 1-3

 

[Broomhall Blade]

That’s why if you don’t have the legs then you pick a system that has the bodies.

It was hugely disappointing to replace McGuinness with Kitching and then ship three.

But as has been stated the nature with which teams cut through us is worrying.

There are so many combos but I’d have perhaps Phillips as ball player, have Choudhury maybe as ball winner and then maybe get Rothwell on the ball to play more forward passes.

Arblaster still getting fitter. Peck needs a rest and Jairo hasn't really hit form yet.

That midfield and then it depends on the rest of the system. I might try BBD and Bamford up front if we went 5 at the back but then that means dropping Donovan.

So I’d lean towards a back four and a front 3 of BBD, Bamford and Donovan. I’d also consider using Campbell as a wide option as an alternative to BBD or Donovan; he’s actually played 58 times in a wide position; 20 goals and 15 assists in those matches. This aspect of his history seems to have been lost a little.

Sorry but Rothwell shouldn't be anywhere near the starting line up, he's shown absolute nothing since joining.

 

[Nick Jansky]

Sure, but then ends when the defenders have to actually defend

Which they are having to spend a ridiculous amount of the game doing owing to the systemic failure taking place in front of them to the point that mistakes are inevitable.

 

[Blademan89]

That’s why if you don’t have the legs then you pick a system that has the bodies.

It was hugely disappointing to replace McGuinness with Kitching and then ship three.

But as has been stated the nature with which teams cut through us is worrying.

There are so many combos but I’d have perhaps Phillips as ball player, have Choudhury maybe as ball winner and then maybe get Rothwell on the ball to play more forward passes.

Arblaster still getting fitter. Peck needs a rest and Jairo hasn't really hit form yet.

That midfield and then it depends on the rest of the system. I might try BBD and Bamford up front if we went 5 at the back but then that means dropping Donovan.

So I’d lean towards a back four and a front 3 of BBD, Bamford and Donovan. I’d also consider using Campbell as a wide option as an alternative to BBD or Donovan; he’s actually played 58 times in a wide position; 20 goals and 15 assists in those matches. This aspect of his history seems to have been lost a little.

Yep if doherty isnt ready to start then id try something like this against blackburn.

------------------------Cooper
Shackleton Tanganga Kitching RND*

-----------------------Choudhury
---------------Phillips ------------Peck*

Donovan-------------Bamford-------------BBD


Choudhury to be there as a pure ball winner protecting the defence and last line in the midfield, pass it to phillips to play it or peck* ... both those players operating as box to box as well, bamford could also drop deep to allow Donovan or bbd to run in behind. This also allows our full backs to bomb on as we will always have Choudhury back and a back 3 at all times.

*Peck out of form could replace with Rothwell but I dont trust him he's too lazy, although again can pick a forward pass and keep ball rolling.

*RND is havjng a dolid start and seems more solid defensivly than Mcallum, either can play for me take ya pick (burrows needed for G/A he provides that we have severely lost /sold).

This leaves us with cover off the bench for wide players in Campbell, cannon (lol) for bamford, Riedewald for Shackleton > move Choudhury accross (assuming Doherty cant start or play) then rothwell/peck to reaplce who ever fades our of whos starts in the box to box role.

We could easily switch from triangle passing to ball in behind easily as the game goes on with this formation pass and move.

Id also say theres argument for an inverted full back to push on into midfield if Choudhury sits marshaling to help with the intricate passing / build up triangles quick 1 toos quick passing and move into space.

But easier said than done, from PlayStation manager.

No doubts we line up 442 though.

 

[AWetFlannel]

Or Donovan was knackered after also playing the full match against Bolton and needed to come off. If he gets injured then we are absolutely screwed.

 

[Keen Blade]

That’s why if you don’t have the legs then you pick a system that has the bodies.

It was hugely disappointing to replace McGuinness with Kitching and then ship three.

But as has been stated the nature with which teams cut through us is worrying.

There are so many combos but I’d have perhaps Phillips as ball player, have Choudhury maybe as ball winner and then maybe get Rothwell on the ball to play more forward passes.

Arblaster still getting fitter. Peck needs a rest and Jairo hasn't really hit form yet.

That midfield and then it depends on the rest of the system. I might try BBD and Bamford up front if we went 5 at the back but then that means dropping Donovan.

So I’d lean towards a back four and a front 3 of BBD, Bamford and Donovan. I’d also consider using Campbell as a wide option as an alternative to BBD or Donovan; he’s actually played 58 times in a wide position; 20 goals and 15 assists in those matches. This aspect of his history seems to have been lost a little.

Arblaster still getting fitter ?
I think he's fecked mate.
Lucky for him he's the manager's son-in-law.
Peck needs a rest ?
These are professional athletes !

 

[Blade In Flame]

Arblaster still getting fitter ?
I think he's fecked mate.
Lucky for him he's the manager's son-in-law.
Peck needs a rest ?
These are professional athletes !

All the people
So many people
And they all go hand in hand
Hand in hand through their...... Parklife

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

Won't be long before we get to the point of insanity (picking the same players but expecting a different outcome).

Wilder-ball (if that's still a thing) was built on having a pivot (Courts/Norwood) and a left footed CM and right CM - both who could get about the pitch but actually play when they got the ball. None of our current incumbents fit with that profile. They're all pivots. The only two who you could argue could play the Fleck/Lundstram roles are Peck and Burrows... Just saying. Soumare was the perfect candidate to grow into the LCM role in Wilder-ball but that ship has sailed.... Would involve some hardcore coaching, but under the heading of getting our best players on the pitch, I'd rather see us trying something different than constantly shuffling the same 10kg of shit into a 5kg bag and expecting Riedeweld/Rothwell/Arblaster to be something they're clearly not.

 

[metalblade]

Five games in and Peck needs a rest you couldn't make it up

 

[CoatesyBlade]

Won't be long before we get to the point of insanity (picking the same players but expecting a different outcome).

Wilder-ball (if that's still a thing) was built on having a pivot (Courts/Norwood) and a left footed CM and right CM - both who could get about the pitch but actually play when they got the ball. None of our current incumbents fit with that profile. They're all pivots. The only two who you could argue could play the Fleck/Lundstram roles are Peck and Burrows... Just saying. Soumare was the perfect candidate to grow into the LCM role in Wilder-ball but that ship has sailed.... Would involve some hardcore coaching, but under the heading of getting our best players on the pitch, I'd rather see us trying something different than constantly shuffling the same 10kg of shit into a 5kg bag and expecting Riedeweld/Rothwell/Arblaster to be something they're clearly not.

I agree, that team had great balance. I do still want to see 3 in midfield though, if that means playing a right footed player as LCM then so be it, the 2x 8’s will be interchangeable anyway.
What I don’t want to see is Donovan and BBD back in our half protecting the fullbacks. As soon as we do that we’re inviting the opposition onto us. We need to give the opposition something to think about! The opposition full backs should be scared stiff of venturing forward!

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

I agree, that team had great balance. I do still want to see 3 in midfield though, if that means playing a right footed player as LCM then so be it, the 2x 8’s will be interchangeable anyway.
What I don’t want to see is Donovan and BBD back in our half protecting the fullbacks. As soon as we do that we’re inviting the opposition onto us. We need to give the opposition something to think about! The opposition full backs should be scared stiff of venturing forward!

I think it's more a case of if we do play three in midfield they have very specific roles, zones in which to play, actions & responsibilities attached to that role. At the minute it looks like a free for all and no one really knows what they're supposed to be doing.

Having a left footer like Burrows in there who's played LB and LW before would be really useful. I always thought Bogle would have made a perfect number 8/RCM so maybe it's a fascination of mine. However, I'd rather see us losing in the short term but knowing as the season goes on we will improve and have a 'system'... At the moment, like I say, it just feels like we're forcing 10kg of shit into a 5kg bag and there's no plan...

 

[Back post bob]

What's with Burrows and how long Seriki is out.?
We need to stop goals 3 center backs
Hopefully seriki and burrows who can both create.
Two holding midfielders
Donna van in the Duffy role
And Two up top
The players I haven't named for the other positions is anyoes guess.

 

[SwissBlade]

Five games in and Peck needs a rest you couldn't make it up

Peck did have an illness in the summer whilst training in Spain, which delayed his return to preseason.

Not saying that this is contributing but it could be that he’s still rebuilding his fitness levels

Worth mentioning that everyone’s fitness levels will build, peak and deteriorate at different points in the season due to different demands on different positions as well as how the players are used / managed and how their fitness levels will also respond.

Playing a player for more minutes, doing more running for 3 games in a week will impact a players fitness and recover

 

[SwissBlade]

Which they are having to spend a ridiculous amount of the game doing owing to the systemic failure taking place in front of them to the point that mistakes are inevitable.

That doesn’t mean individual defensive performances can’t also be poor. Against Bolton we had 53% possession and they still had 18 shots, Choudhoury in particular was exposed and Tanganga was just all over the place. A lot of the shots, as well as goals were preventable with doing the basics right

Against Norwich we had 47% possession and still conceded 19 shots.

If the defenders are only struggling because the players in front aren’t giving them enough protection, you’d expect the defensive problems to reduce when we’re having more of the ball. They haven’t.

The system may be contributing, but it doesn’t give the defenders a free hit.

 

[Nick Jansky]

That doesn’t mean individual defensive performances can’t also be poor. Against Bolton we had 53% possession and they still had 18 shots, Choudhoury in particular was exposed and Tanganga was just all over the place. A lot of the shots, as well as goals were preventable with doing the basics right

Against Norwich we had 47% possession and still conceded 19 shots.

If the defenders are only struggling because the players in front aren’t giving them enough protection, you’d expect the defensive problems to reduce when we’re having more of the ball. They haven’t.

The system may be contributing, but it doesn’t give the defenders a free hit.

I’m not saying the defenders aren’t at fault, they clearly are. But they are certainly being let down by those in front of them. And those possession stats are meaningless. What counts is what you do with the possession you have. We play passes sideways and backwards before invariably launching it, which isn’t controlling the game. Opponents transition forward quickly having easily countered our attempts at a block, stroll through our midfield and put us under a load of pressure for large parts of the game. Anyone putting all the blame on the defence isn’t understanding what they are watching.

 

[SwissBlade]

I’m not saying the defenders aren’t at fault, they clearly are. But they are certainly being let down by those in front of them. And those possession stats are meaningless. What counts is what you do with the possession you have. We play passes sideways and backwards before invariably launching it, which isn’t controlling the game. Opponents transition forward quickly having easily countered our attempts at a block, stroll through our midfield and put us under a load of pressure for large parts of the game. Anyone putting all the blame on the defence isn’t understanding what they are watching.

The whole blame isn't going on the defence, I haven't seen anyone say that.

I think as long as we acknowledge that the defenders are a big problem, then we're getting somewhere. Of course, the side isn't going to dominate games against sides like Norwich and yes the Midfield and strikers also need to do their defensive work, but the defenders have to give the side a chance when the ball comes into their zone. Too often v Bolton and v Norwich that hasn't happened. We often have enough players back to cope, but we make a mess of things by not doing the basics. Free headers, unmarked players in the box, just general fuck ups.

The point regarding possession was that we're not being overrun by sides. The period between the Norwich 1st and 2nd on Saturday, we played ok and were on top, then we conceded a soft goal again like we did v Bolton.

 

[Nick Jansky]

The whole blame isn't going on the defence, I haven't seen anyone say that.

I think as long as we acknowledge that the defenders are a big problem, then we're getting somewhere. Of course, the side isn't going to dominate games against sides like Norwich and yes the Midfield and strikers also need to do their defensive work, but the defenders have to give the side a chance when the ball comes into their zone. Too often v Bolton and v Norwich that hasn't happened. We often have enough players back to cope, but we make a mess of things by not doing the basics. Free headers, unmarked players in the box, just general fuck ups.

The point regarding possession was that we're not being overrun by sides. The period between the Norwich 1st and 2nd on Saturday, we played ok and were on top, then we conceded a soft goal again like we did v Bolton.

The point remains is that the opposition come at us in wave after wave for sustained periods of the game. If your defenders aren’t the best and aren’t well coached to start with, lapses in concentration are inevitable. There is only so long you can soak up pressure without conceding.

 

[SwissBlade]

The point remains is that the opposition come at us in wave after wave for sustained periods of the game. If your defenders aren’t the best and aren’t well coached to start with, lapses in concentration are inevitable. There is only so long you can soak up pressure without conceding.

True. But i haven't seen those wave after wave yet. Perhaps that's something we can expect from Wolves or Stoke

 

[Nick Jansky]

True. But i haven't seen those wave after wave yet. Perhaps that's something we can expect from Wolves or Stoke

I think the rest of us has seen it. We’ve been clinging on during large spells of most matches.

 

[SwissBlade]

I think the rest of us has seen it. We’ve been clinging on during large spells of most matches.

Fair enough.

Maybe it’s the terminology, but I wouldn’t say it was wave after wave of attacks after each turnover against Norwich, nor was it really apparent against Swansea, Birmingham and Bolton in such waves. Perhaps it was something which was seen against Cardiff, I didn't see that one, so can’t speak on it.