Does the club match the Manager's desire to succeed?

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Esablade said:
Come off it.

He was happy for the club to put it out there to the fans, knowing full well what impact it would have going forwards.
He didn't refute the statement at all, and as co-chairman he should have pulled him up on it if he disagreed.
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It was actually explaining that it wasn't going to be an investment of the Man City type - suddenly spending millions upon millions in a short time, but more a Liverpool style where the team were built up slowly and surely.
if anyone can find the full actual quote (rather than the imagined one), it might help.
This is the best I can come up with:

  1. re: What though , does `Liverpool Type investment` really mean?

    quote_icon.png
    Originally Posted by RamonFlick
    Surprised this is still misinterpreted.

    This came from Paul Walker asking Jim Phipps, 'how much are we talking?' in relation to the Prince's investment.

    Jim's answer was, 'think Liverpool rather than Man City' or words pretty much the same.

    I may stand corrected, but I've not seen any quotes about 'Liverpool-type investment'.
    Like "game changing investment" a phrase made up on here.

    "Phipps confirmed the investment will not run to “ridiculous” sums of money, adding: “Think of Liverpool rather than Manchester City.”
    Reply With Quote

  2. from Bladesmad
 



Harrisblade said:
It was actually explaining that it wasn't going to be an investment of the Man City type - suddenly spending millions upon millions in a short time, but more a Liverpool style where the team were built up slowly and surely.
if anyone can find the full actual quote (rather than the imagined one), it might help.
This is the best I can come up with:

  1. re: What though , does `Liverpool Type investment` really mean?

    quote_icon.png
    Originally Posted by RamonFlick
    Surprised this is still misinterpreted.

    This came from Paul Walker asking Jim Phipps, 'how much are we talking?' in relation to the Prince's investment.

    Jim's answer was, 'think Liverpool rather than Man City' or words pretty much the same.

    I may stand corrected, but I've not seen any quotes about 'Liverpool-type investment'.
    Like "game changing investment" a phrase made up on here.

    "Phipps confirmed the investment will not run to “ridiculous” sums of money, adding: “Think of Liverpool rather than Manchester City.”
    Reply With Quote

  2. from Bladesmad
Click to expand...

I'm well aware of 'the Liverpool-type investment' quote...not sure we're seeing that though at the moment, we appear to be 'getting by'.

P.S- And my point was more about the McCabe police trying to fob this piece of bullshit off...
 
Esablade said:
I'm well aware of 'the Liverpool-type investment' quote...not sure we're seeing that though at the moment, we appear to be 'getting by'.

P.S- And my point was more about the McCabe police trying to fob this piece of bullshit off...
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How much do you think has been put into the club so far by the Prince and McCabe?
Or doesn't putting money into the club to cover losses count as investment?
 
SwissBlade said:
If the prince owned us 100% would his desire be lesser or greater than McCabes?
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That's an interesting and, dare I say, a loaded question. If you're asking my thoughts on what life will be like under the Prince, I can't answer, other than to speculate about his intentions.

I recall a comment being made that when the Blades achieve Premiership status the Prince would consider selling. Whether that's attributable directly to the Prince I'm unsure, but it was never denied or refuted.

What I can answer is through my hope for the future - that whoever takes a controlling interest in this club is able to fund buying players who can compete at the top level, plus invest in ground development and training facilities. Which is a predictable wish list, similar to any dedicated fan of any club you could care to name.
Fans are simple creatures, they, we, all want transparency from those in control. Unfortunately we're often left with an empty begging bowl due to the fact that those we plead with are seasoned in the art of obfuscation and the ability to mislead.

As for the Prince's intentions should he take control, it's a wait and see exercise. Ask me if he takes control and when he's been in control for a year.
 
Harrisblade said:
How much do you think has been put into the club so far by the Prince and McCabe?
Or doesn't putting money into the club to cover losses count as investment?
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All clubs have running cost's, what does that have to do with promises of extra finance once a target has been achieved?
 
BushBlade said:
That's just semantics. Only an idiot would buy a championship football club with the intention of making money. Therefore we need an owner who is prepared to lose money, regardless. Because almost every club in the championship loses money every year and clubs like Forest have shown that these losses can go on for years without achieving promotion.
So whether you call it a 'vanity project' or 'an expensive hobby for a generous benefactor' it's effectively the same thing.
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It would be semantic if I'd mentioned that an owner would make money from owning a club. It then begs the question of why so may men buy clubs knowing that they're financial black holes? Clearly these owners have ambitions and aspirations, whether they have the capability to bring about their dream is another question.

I dare say you're right about our next owner. They'll clearly appreciate that their bank balance will be lighter due to owning this club. it's why it's strange that you feel the need to mention this, I'd have thought that a savvy business man would understand what owning a club would involve? If they don't then they only have themselves to blame if they lose money due to their involvement with the club.
 
BushBlade said:
Who do you expect to bring it to account?
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No idea....maybe someone who has the time to offer a roll call of misdemeanours, poor judgement, self-aggrandising ownership, or whatever misplaced quality someone chose to employ in the cause of owning United? I'm disabled, much of my time rests between NHS activity and needing to take care of my legs. So that rules me out. Any thoughts about who you feel might be worthy of doing this?
 
itsinyerblood said:
It would be semantic if I'd mentioned that an owner would make money from owning a club. It then begs the question of why so may men buy clubs knowing that they're financial black holes? Clearly these owners have ambitions and aspirations, whether they have the capability to bring about their dream is another question.

I dare say you're right about our next owner. They'll clearly appreciate that their bank balance will be lighter due to owning this club. it's why it's strange that you feel the need to mention this, I'd have thought that a savvy business man would understand what owning a club would involve? If they don't then they only have themselves to blame if they lose money due to their involvement with the club.
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I mentioned it because you took issue, in great length, over Swiss's use of the term 'vanity project'. It seemed fairly obvious to me that he meant someone who was prepared to lose money rather than buying it as a way of making money.

You'd think businessmen would be aware of this but the evidence suggests they aren't, or that they don't appreciate the extent of the loss they're going to make.
 
itsinyerblood said:
No idea....maybe someone who has the time to offer a roll call of misdemeanours, poor judgement, self-aggrandising ownership, or whatever misplaced quality someone chose to employ in the cause of owning United? I'm disabled, much of my time rests between NHS activity and needing to take care of my legs. So that rules me out. Any thoughts about who you feel might be worthy of doing this?
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I've done all that on several occasions. We all know KM has made catastrophic decisions which has cost him tens of millions. What's to be gained by re-heating old soup?
 
BushBlade said:
I've done all that on several occasions. We all know KM has made catastrophic decisions which has cost him tens of millions. What's to be gained by re-heating old soup?
Click to expand...

Drags himself from elevating legs to the laptop that someone has conveniently placed in a safe place :)

It's a fair point BB, going back to Reg Brearley or even beyond may serve little purpose, but knowing (accurately) the history that acts like a foundation for everything that followed is vital, at least in my book. I get that it doesn't help to keep repeating over and over, but to forget, or not have any interest, may result in the eventual memory black hole where facts become disposable tools to suit someone's dodgy argument.

As for KM's decisions, I see that as a consequence of someone with more money than (football) sense, and I reckon he's still able to live far more comfortably than most supporters, so there are far more pressing matters than the state of KM's financial affairs to concern myself with. Like quite a few Blades I believe that Kev has United's best interests at heart, save the ownership of the hotel and whatever else he's managed to secure. It's a tough life at the top I tell thee!
 
itsinyerblood said:
Drags himself from elevating legs to the laptop that someone has conveniently placed in a safe place :)

It's a fair point BB, going back to Reg Brearley or even beyond may serve little purpose, but knowing (accurately) the history that acts like a foundation for everything that followed is vital, at least in my book. I get that it doesn't help to keep repeating over and over, but to forget, or not have any interest, may result in the eventual memory black hole where facts become disposable tools to suit someone's dodgy argument.

As for KM's decisions, I see that as a consequence of someone with more money than (football) sense, and I reckon he's still able to live far more comfortably than most supporters, so there are far more pressing matters than the state of KM's financial affairs to concern myself with. Like quite a few Blades I believe that Kev has United's best interests at heart, save the ownership of the hotel and whatever else he's managed to secure. It's a tough life at the top I tell thee!
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If you ignore history then you won't learn from past mistakes, I get that but I have no say over how the club is run, nor has anyone on this board, as far as I know, so there is little benefit in going over and over it on here. If KM wants the benefit of my long memory and analytical skills he's more than welcome to get in touch. I'm only half an hour from Carlos Place.
 
BushBlade said:
If you ignore history then you won't learn from past mistakes, I get that but I have no say over how the club is run, nor has anyone on this board, as far as I know, so there is little benefit in going over and over it on here. If KM wants the benefit of my long memory and analytical skills he's more than welcome to get in touch. I'm only half an hour from Carlos Place.
Click to expand...

Without the need for pedantry, isn't one of the demands of a forum for posters to write about whatever they feel concerns the club? Yes, repeating past indiscretions becomes wearisome, but if it also contributes to keeping those in control on their feet what harm is done?

Your memory is probably far more accurate than my withering glob that masquerades as a brain, and if there's one thing we're not short of it's knowledge and history, Silent Blade being an excellent example of who to turn to in times of accurate need.

Point taken about how little influence any of us have over the running of the club, but I think they, the club, missed a trick when it came to appointing a supporter onto the board. Foxy would have been the ideal advocate for this role, but I guess he's now a dedicated dad and on a rapid learning curve where child care is concerned.
 
itsinyerblood said:
That's an interesting and, dare I say, a loaded question. If you're asking my thoughts on what life will be like under the Prince, I can't answer, other than to speculate about his intentions.

I recall a comment being made that when the Blades achieve Premiership status the Prince would consider selling. Whether that's attributable directly to the Prince I'm unsure, but it was never denied or refuted.

What I can answer is through my hope for the future - that whoever takes a controlling interest in this club is able to fund buying players who can compete at the top level, plus invest in ground development and training facilities. Which is a predictable wish list, similar to any dedicated fan of any club you could care to name.
Fans are simple creatures, they, we, all want transparency from those in control. Unfortunately we're often left with an empty begging bowl due to the fact that those we plead with are seasoned in the art of obfuscation and the ability to mislead.

As for the Prince's intentions should he take control, it's a wait and see exercise. Ask me if he takes control and when he's been in control for a year.
Click to expand...
It wasn't a loaded question. You say that the past can't be ignored but as the ownership changed a few years ago when the prince came in I was wondering if you saw that he had more or less desire than McCabe.

McCabe has no less desire than the prince and he certainly seems to have the desire to get this club back into the Premier League, always has.

Dragging up mistakes of the past (continually in the case of some posters) though doesn't serve any purpose when here and now we're looking forward
 



SwissBlade said:
It wasn't a loaded question. You say that the past can't be ignored but as the ownership changed a few years ago when the prince came in I was wondering if you saw that he had more or less desire than McCabe.

McCabe has no less desire than the prince and he certainly seems to have the desire to get this club back into the Premier League, always has.

Dragging up mistakes of the past (continually in the case of some posters) though doesn't serve any purpose when here and now we're looking forward
Click to expand...

Going back to where this began......I made it clear this wasn't anti-McCabe or the Prince, so any hostility to me about this is misplaced. What I did write was that we have, for the first time in a long while, a manager who is a better than average, someone who will apply himself because his skill-set is obviously that bit better than many other managers. If the club can't match Wilder's drive then we'll lose him, it's that uncomplicated. Everything that followed was as a result of questions being responded to by myself.

I take your point about a constant and inaccurate delivery of posts accusing KM or the Prince of this, that, or whatever, but that's not me, never has been, never will be.

What I do think is acceptable for those in power is to be accountable, and if that requires a few awkward questions to be asked then so be it. An example of this being KM's insistence that we're the unluckiest club in football! If anyone else had made this stupid claim they would probably, rightly I think, have been slaughtered on here. Should Kev be exempt from this type of criticism? As has been said elsewhere on the forum, KM may be co-owner, but he really should be kept away from a microphone where United are concerned. As a summary, I reckon Kev's probably a half-decent bloke who'd love to see us back in the Premiership. As for the Prince, well he remains a bit of an unknown quantity, mostly because this seems to be his preferred approach to familiarising himself with those who support the club. I know he's busy, but attending the occasional meet-the-fans night wouldn't do any harm, would it?
 
itsinyerblood said:
Going back to where this began......I made it clear this wasn't anti-McCabe or the Prince, so any hostility to me about this is misplaced. What I did write was that we have, for the first time in a long while, a manager who is a better than average, someone who will apply himself because his skill-set is obviously that bit better than many other managers. If the club can't match Wilder's drive then we'll lose him, it's that uncomplicated. Everything that followed was as a result of questions being responded to by myself.

I take your point about a constant and inaccurate delivery of posts accusing KM or the Prince of this, that, or whatever, but that's not me, never has been, never will be.

What I do think is acceptable for those in power is to be accountable, and if that requires a few awkward questions to be asked then so be it. An example of this being KM's insistence that we're the unluckiest club in football! If anyone else had made this stupid claim they would probably, rightly I think, have been slaughtered on here. Should Kev be exempt from this type of criticism? As has been said elsewhere on the forum, KM may be co-owner, but he really should be kept away from a microphone where United are concerned. As a summary, I reckon Kev's probably a half-decent bloke who'd love to see us back in the Premiership. As for the Prince, well he remains a bit of an unknown quantity, mostly because this seems to be his preferred approach to familiarising himself with those who support the club. I know he's busy, but attending the occasional meet-the-fans night wouldn't do any harm, would it?
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What I'm suggesting is that when the Prince came in, it was a chance for the club to move forward and that's what we're doing...

Promotion and the backing of the new manager for that was absolute proof that the desire is there from the owners.
 
BushBlade said:
Good article/interview.
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Really good and another reminder of why Wilder is a great fit for our club and it's owners. We will do things the right way, because it's right and honest.

However if money becomes available then that's great
 
Yes SwissBlade , I've read Wilder's comments before, and all good stuff too.

He's also said he's loyal but not sentimental, and this has been said not only with relevance to the players. I think Wilder is the type of guy who, if you are straight with him, he'll do the same in return, something I think we'd all appreciate from those around us. I hope that this season and next we continue to see visible progress, maybe with a few changes that enable the club to widen it's scouting base, or at least contribute to the quality of player Wilder obviously wants at the club. Apart from the amazing success last season brought, the most refreshing thing for me is to see a better quality of player come to the club than we'd previously signed.

All I'd add is not to get too frazzled if someone posts a worthwhile post that harks back to a time that you'd prefer to forget. The answer's simple, ignore the contents. It's preferable to encourage opinions than to clamp down on opinions you don't support. UTB
 
itsinyerblood said:
All I'd add is not to get too frazzled if someone posts a worthwhile post that harks back to a time that you'd prefer to forget. The answer's simple, ignore the contents. It's preferable to encourage opinions than to clamp down on opinions you don't support. UTB
Click to expand...

Likewise, you asked a question to which I responded but then you took it in an entirely different direction which seemed to go away from the discussion we were having in the quoted posts...

Its not about forgetting a bad time. We all remember very well. However, I didn't and still don't see the great relevance of discussing things which have a) been discussed to death anyway, and b) happened under a previous ownership regime...
 
SwissBlade said:
Likewise, you asked a question to which I responded but then you took it in an entirely different direction which seemed to go away from the discussion we were having in the quoted posts...

Its not about forgetting a bad time. We all remember very well. However, I didn't and still don't see the great relevance of discussing things which have a) been discussed to death anyway, and b) happened under a previous ownership regime...
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Mmmm.....this is becoming a tad circular, as well as unnecessary :) My point about the past wasn't to dredge up debatable issues, but simply to point out that our history hasn't been entirely seamless and that it's worth being mindful of this. I think it's worth remembering that not every poster is that informed about the club's history, surely they should feel free to ask questions that you and I take for granted? Sorry to respond like this, but can't see where this is going other than to repeat over and over.
 
itsinyerblood said:
Mmmm.....this is becoming a tad circular, as well as unnecessary :) My point about the past wasn't to dredge up debatable issues, but simply to point out that our history hasn't been entirely seamless and that it's worth being mindful of this. I think it's worth remembering that not every poster is that informed about the club's history, surely they should feel free to ask questions that you and I take for granted? Sorry to respond like this, but can't see where this is going other than to repeat over and over.
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I hadn't realised you were bringing new posters up to speed on the last 10-15 years ;)

I'll leave this thread be then...
 
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