Do you remeber that time?

[Swanseablade]

Monty could break down attacks with ease.
It's just a shame a fair amount of those attacks were ours......
Sorry had to

 

[wizadry]

Not really.

I am sure we could have got better players than Monty, had we had the requisite funds, as I am sure we could have got better players that all our players at the time, had we had the funds.

The only proof as to how good you are in football is the level you play at. Monty played in the top two tiers for the first 11 years of his career. Hence he was a top two tier level player for 11 years.

Could you see more than 1 or 2 of our current players sustaining a 11 year career in the top two divisions?

Brayford if he hadn't been too attached to the Blades but apart from that no, not for 11 years anyway. Monty has done well to have the career he's had and done very well to have made the money he has. Do you think Monty was a good player?

 

[Darren]

Brayford if he hadn't been too attached to the Blades but apart from that no, not for 11 years anyway. Monty has done well to have the career he's had and done very well to have made the money he has. Do you think Monty was a good player?

I think he was better than most of our current lot.

 

[wizadry]

I think he was better than most of our current lot.

As i said earlier, player recruitment and bad decisions have got us to where we are now and if Monty played now he would not turn us into promotion contenders single handedly, infact we'd have to play with 12 players with someone holding his hand. There's been more than the managers eyes that have had wool pulled over them with the looks of it

 

[him behind you]

Where we decided Monty wasn't good enough, so we shipped him to Millwall on loan and replaced him with Doyle.......



Whoops...

I'm not one for having a pop at past players but........

For me it was a good move and I'd do the same again except that I wouldn't loan him out as it gives the possibility that he might come back. Doyle was like Monty except that he didn't give the ball away as often and had a better goal scoring record (even comparing games in div 3). Don't get me wrong, neither are my cup of tea but Monty was simply awful and we'd all laugh at him if he'd played for the pigs rather than had hundreds of games for us.

 

[Eyeball]

He had a 13 year career in English football. 10 of those were spent in a team that was either in the PL or challenging for promotion to the PL. I don't know what more proof is possible that (until the end of his career) that was Monty's level.

Do you really think one player could fool three different managers for 10 years?

In my opinion monty was one of the best man markers I've seen
On many occasions he managed to blot out opposition "danger men" that was one of the main reasons warnock especially played him
Again,just my opinion

 

[Darren]

As i said earlier, player recruitment and bad decisions have got us to where we are now and if Monty played now he would not turn us into promotion contenders single handedly, infact we'd have to play with 12 players with someone holding his hand. There's been more than the managers eyes that have had wool pulled over them with the looks of it

At the peak of Monty's career with United (after he had been with us 7 years), we were the 18th best team in the country.

Surely it must follow that Monty was a part of what got us to that peak?

 

[Bladeloyal]

I'm afraid some people never got what monty brought to the table when he was 100% fit he could man mark anyone out of a game , he couldn't pass wind but. Hey ho if he could he would have never played for us .up the monty

 

[alcoblade]

It comes to a bad end of days when we look back nostagically at a player who yes, had 90 minute plus in his fuel tank and 'gave his all' but who could never gain control of the ball, passed blindly in midfield and would frequently find himself positionally wanting as a required midfield businessman.

But who told you that was the case?



UTB

 

[alcoblade]

Do you think Monty was a good player?

This sort of sums up why we are were are. It doesn't really matter what people think when there is empirical evidence to tell you what is fact.

It's that thinking that got us to accept that David Weir would be a good manager. It's taken the worst spell in our history to learn the lesson that its better to accept what is proven to work, than what a bunch of amateurs believe might work.

Back to Monty - if you were to say "he plays a style of football that I'd rather not watch", then there would be far less debate. Then again, I'd still counter that our highest crowds in the last 4+ decades (other than Pommpey) disagreed with you

UTB

 

[Darren]

This sort of sums up why we are were are. It doesn't really matter what people think when there is empirical evidence to tell you what is fact.

It's that thinking that got us to accept that David Weir would be a good manager. It's taken the worst spell in our history to learn the lesson that its better to accept what is proven to work, than what a bunch of amateurs believe might work.

Back to Monty - if you were to say "he plays a style of football that I'd rather not watch", then there would be far less debate. Then again, I'd still counter that our highest crowds in the last 4+ decades (other than Pommpey) disagreed with you

UTB

Indeed. I always find it incredible that people with little or no expertise in a given area think they know better than people who make a living from it. I mean, if I was shitting blood and I went to my doctor and he told me I had cancer and needed urgent treatment, I wouldn't say "no, I don't care that you have been a cancer doctor for 20 years, I have had my arse for 48 years and I know, it's not cancer, I must have just nicked the inside in one of my escapades".

 

[BushBlade]

Month was not a skillful player, that much is obvious. Doesn't make him a bad player. He was the ideal midfielder for a side that played high tempo long ball football; athletic and hardworking. If we returned to that style of football we would need a 'Monty' to make it work.
In a side that plays possession based passing football, he'd be a fish out of water.

 

[wizadry]

At the peak of Monty's career with United (after he had been with us 7 years), we were the 18th best team in the country.

Surely it must follow that Monty was a part of what got us to that peak?

Yes he was apart of it but for me we could have been a lot higher up the spectrum and we'd have done it a lot quicker with someone better than Monty.

What this boils down to is you think Monty was a pivocal point and a large part of why we finally got to the Prem after all the years he'd been here and i don't, maybe we should just agree to disagree on this one as we could debate it until the cows come home

 

[BushBlade]

Indeed. I always find it incredible that people with little or no expertise in a given area think they know better than people who make a living from it. I mean, if I was shitting blood and I went to my doctor and he told me I had cancer and needed urgent treatment, I wouldn't say "no, I don't care that you have been a cancer doctor for 20 years, I have had my arse for 48 years and I know, it's not cancer, I must have just nicked the inside in one of my escapades".

Don't Darren, I've spent most of this week being told by fucking idiots how to do a job I've done for fifteen years. I'd just put it to the back of my mind and you've set me off again.

 

[Darren]

Yes he was apart of it but for me we could have been a lot higher up the spectrum and we'd have done it a lot quicker with someone better than Monty.

What this boils down to is you think Monty was a pivocal point and a large part of why we finally got to the Prem after all the years he'd been here and i don't, maybe we should just agree to disagree on this one as we could debate it until the cows come home

I don't think that at all. I think he was a player who was good enough to have a career in the top half of the second tier and that he didn't "steal a wage". The proof of that is the fact that he had a career in the top half of the second tier for 10 years,

 

[Darren]

Don't Darren, I've spent most of this week being told by fucking idiots how to do a job I've done for fifteen years. I'd just put it to the back of my mind and you've set me off again.

You get it as a lawyer. They come to you for legal advice and then proceed not to take the advice and do what they want to do. If that's your attitude, you might want to represent yourself and not waste your fucking time with a lawyer...

 

[wizadry]

Indeed. I always find it incredible that people with little or no expertise in a given area think they know better than people who make a living from it. I mean, if I was shitting blood and I went to my doctor and he told me I had cancer and needed urgent treatment, I wouldn't say "no, I don't care that you have been a cancer doctor for 20 years, I have had my arse for 48 years and I know, it's not cancer, I must have just nicked the inside in one of my escapades".

You don't need to have expertise to comment on a football forum on how good a footballer is, there are many so called football experts that supposedly have this expertise that wouldn't even know how to clean there own boots, never mind pick a football team and coach tactics etc etc. There are so many managers that we have already seen at our club who have shown that they are experts at been shite, Robson is just one example. The example you have given is utter ludicrous 'btw'.

 

[Darren]

You don't need to have expertise to comment on a football forum on how good a footballer is, there are many so called football experts that supposedly have this expertise that wouldn't even know how to clean there own boots, never mind pick a football team and coach tactics etc etc. There are so many managers that we have already seen at our club who have shown that they are experts at been shite, Robson is just one example. The example you have given is utter ludicrous 'btw'.

We can all comment on football but our opinions are obviously worth a lot less than people who make a living from the game. If our opinions were worth more, we would be making a living from the game. Just as a doctor's opinions are worth more on medical issues than people who are not doctors. That doesn't mean doctors or football managers are right all the time, but they are far more likely to be right in their area of expertise than the average person.

And where one's opinion differs with a football manager and is prima facie ludicrous - like that a man who earned a living playing in the top 2 divisions for 11 years was not good enough to play at that level - then the manager is even more likely to be right.

 

[pommpey]

We can all comment on football but our opinions are obviously worth a lot less than people who make a living from the game. If our opinions were worth more, we would be making a living from the game.

Which is what astounds me at times when defenders of McCabe and the like come on here all tired and cross when the likes of me criticise. Even if McCabe reads this board and contributes, he is the boss of the football club and its entities, has far more experience and insight and I doubt very much takes heed from misguided comments on a fucking internet forum. If he does (or any of the others) then he really shouldn't be where he is. What the fuck do we know to influence his hand?

Just as a doctor's opinions are worth more on medical issues than people who are not doctors. That doesn't mean doctors or football managers are right all the time, but they are far more likely to be right in their area of expertise than the average person.

Or they have far more responsibility an integrity to even contemplate us suggecting they play a different style of football? Or sign particular players?

And where one's opinion differs with a football manager and is prima facie ludicrous - like that a man who earned a living playing in the top 2 divisions for 11 years was not good enough to play at that level - then the manager is even more likely to be right.

Or look at what we have put up, and blow a cupped fart in our direction. I would.

pommpey

 

[itsinyerblood]

You get it as a lawyer. They come to you for legal advice and then proceed not to take the advice and do what they want to do. If that's your attitude, you might want to represent yourself and not waste your fucking time with a lawyer...

Just reading these comments about clients who come to you as someone well versed in your particular specialisation, and then, when they're given a set of fundamentals that conflict with their own, often barmy behaviour patterns, the very ones that got them into trouble in the first place, they usually retreat with a defense that you, the specialist, are just trying to take more money from them than is necessary, and after all, what's the worst that can happen? Surely if they remain convinced that they are in no way culpable, and that other relevant parties will accept that their version makes sense, then what on earth is the point of listening to you?

It might sound a tad class-ist, but given my own experiences of aspirational musicians who've come to me for advice, many who live on a local housing estate, it soon becomes clear that what they seek is confirmation of their own very warped prejudices, and not the information I'm providing. To begin with I found this wearying, as I suspect you must, but it's the way of the world, and just once in a while you happen across someone who actually grasps the nuts and bolts issues that pertain to their enquiry. When that happens it makes everything that's previously been lost in the ether seem irrelevant, as finally here's a client you can work with.

 

[Grecian2000]

It might sound a tad class-ist, but given my own experiences of aspirational musicians who've come to me for advice, many who live on a local housing estate, it soon becomes clear that what they seek is confirmation of their own very warped prejudices, and not the information I'm providing.

Highlighting that some oiks are off the "local housing estate" certainly sounds a tad something.

 

[georgebernardshaw]

Month was not a skillful player, that much is obvious. Doesn't make him a bad player. He was the ideal midfielder for a side that played high tempo long ball football; athletic and hardworking. If we returned to that style of football we would need a 'Monty' to make it work.
In a side that plays possession based passing football, he'd be a fish out of water.

Something in that - many years ago (1970s), Len Badger coached our works team, we were absolutely crap, but I'm sure it gave him a good laugh.

In the pub after training, I asked Len about Frank Barlow (who was the Terrace whipping boy in the way that Monty was), because I was going every week and couldn't understand why John Harris kept picking him. He told me that this was a recurring theme when he talked to United fans, but explained that Barlow did all the midfield jobs that no-one else either wanted to do, or were capable of.

So perhaps we missed a trick then, and still miss a trick when we discuss Monty or Doyle.

 

[wizadry]

We can all comment on football but our opinions are obviously worth a lot less than people who make a living from the game. If our opinions were worth more, we would be making a living from the game. Just as a doctor's opinions are worth more on medical issues than people who are not doctors. That doesn't mean doctors or football managers are right all the time, but they are far more likely to be right in their area of expertise than the average person.

And where one's opinion differs with a football manager and is prima facie ludicrous - like that a man who earned a living playing in the top 2 divisions for 11 years was not good enough to play at that level - then the manager is even more likely to be right.

As i say you think he was top 2 tier class, i don't, i must be wrong though because Warnock, Robson and Blackwell have all played him there and they did so for 11 years. Some people don't realise things until it smacks them in the kite, we realised it 11 years too late that's all when Wilson came in, coincidently while we were in League one which he deemed he wasn't required for.

Steve McClaren couldn't get Derby up with all the talent in the world for that league, he failed, he is now managing Newcastle in the Premier league after getting sacked from Championship club Derby, yes, go figure that one out.

People in football make crazy decisions but they are always going to be correct compared to someone on a message board, football is a merry go round mate and i could tell you all sorts of reasons as to why Monty played under Warnock for all those years and it wasn't all to do with his many talents

Good luck with convincing your clients though mate

 

[itsinyerblood]

Highlighting that some oiks are off the "local housing estate" certainly sounds a tad something.

Well given my own background, stereotypical 1950's working class, I'd suggest I can recognise the baggage that accompanies those familiar with a similar set of circumstances. It doesn't mean that the decision making abilities are always the same, but once a conversation has begun it's not long before it's clear which way the wind blows. Certain financial attitudes, sometimes straight out of a Zola novel, seem commonplace in these discussions. That's not to say that someone of a more well heeled persuasion couldn't be just as awkward, but a reasonable percentage of clients I've met seem to come from the lower end of the class scale. Not a judgement, just an observation that sometimes becomes an expectation.

 

[Darren]

As i say you think he was top 2 tier class, i don't, i must be wrong though because Warnock, Robson and Blackwell have all played him there and they did so for 11 years. Some people don't realise things until it smacks them in the kite, we realised it 11 years too late that's all when Wilson came in, coincidently while we were in League one which he deemed he wasn't required for.

Steve McClaren couldn't get Derby up with all the talent in the world for that league, he failed, he is now managing Newcastle in the Premier league after getting sacked from Championship club Derby, yes, go figure that one out.

People in football make crazy decisions but they are always going to be correct compared to someone on a message board, football is a merry go round mate and i could tell you all sorts of reasons as to why Monty played under Warnock for all those years and it wasn't all to do with his many talents

Good luck with convincing your clients though mate

I'm a great fan of Occam's razor.

The simplest explanation as to why Monty had a 11 year career as a top two tier player is that he was good enough for that level. That being the case, one should not go around looking for more complicated explanations which, from what are hinting, involve some kind of evil conspiracy (which presumably Warnock, Blackwell, Robson, McCabe etc etc were all in on).

Football managers do indeed make mistakes. It's extremely unlikely three different managers would make the same mistake for 11 years.

 

[wizadry]

Football managers do indeed make mistakes. It's extremely unlikely three different managers would make the same mistake for 11 years.

But it's still possible then

 

[Grecian2000]

It's extremely unlikely three different managers would make the same mistake for 11 years.

I have seen many try and support Monty against criticism but bringing Robson and Blackwell to the table as 66% of your "they thought he were great so it must be true . . . " sample is doing him no favours at all.

 

[Darren]

I have seen many try and support Monty against criticism but bringing Robson and Blackwell to the table as 66% of your "they thought he were great so it must be true . . . " sample is doing him no favours at all.

That would be Blackwell, who is our most successful manager out of 9 (including caretakers) in the last 8 years...

 

[Grecian2000]

Yes, Blackwell who has set every club (all 4, yes 100%) he's managed on the road to at least one division below from where he took them over.

And Robson who's first team included a CM pairing of Monty and Legs Of Wood after saying he expected NM to be closing in on double figures for goals in a season.

 

[georgebernardshaw]

That would be Blackwell, who is our most successful manager out of 9 (including caretakers) in the last 8 years...

How many years ago was Wilson manager?