Director of Football / Technical Board - why do we need one?

[KMC-1889]

I tried looking elsewhere for a discussion about club structure but couldn’t see a dedicated thread so thought I’d start one.

It was discussed a few weeks back in Shoutbox but YouTube has just thrown up this old video which I think is worth a watch.



When you look at what the describe as the ‘old, bad’ why to run a club with a 2 man team of the manager & executive (and the the problems this is likely to cause) they describe this current United team and its plight perfectly.

When you look at Sunderland, who are having phenomenal success at our expense, you can see the sort of set up we should be aiming for.

https://www.safc.com/club-information/club-personnel

Will COH bring in this sort of set up? It’s popular in the states but Bettis’ position on the board makes me think he’ll fight any changes tooth and nail.

 

[Danetheblade]

I tried looking elsewhere for a discussion about club structure but couldn’t see a dedicated thread so thought I’d start one.

It was discussed a few weeks back in Shoutbox but YouTube has just thrown up this old video which I think is worth a watch.



When you look at what the describe as the ‘old, bad’ why to run a club with a 2 man team of the manager & executive (and the the problems this is likely to cause) they describe this current United team and its plight perfectly.

When you look at Sunderland, who are having phenomenal success at our expense, you can see the sort of set up we should be aiming for.

https://www.safc.com/club-information/club-personnel

Will COH bring in this sort of set up? It’s popular in the states but Bettis’ position on the board makes me think he’ll fight any changes tooth and nail.

Short answer, no.

 

[Kenilworth]

Love a DOF, me

 

[I should coco]

We only 'need' one. if the board believe in it and are committed to making it work. There is absolutely no point in setting up such a system for appearances sake, especially if the manager (sorry, 'coach'), doesn't buy into it.

Bettis and Wilder are probably the two most impoprtant individuals presently in the club, so if they won't buy in, an 'interesting' period is ahead.

 

[Keen Blade]

I tried looking elsewhere for a discussion about club structure but couldn’t see a dedicated thread so thought I’d start one.

It was discussed a few weeks back in Shoutbox but YouTube has just thrown up this old video which I think is worth a watch.



When you look at what the describe as the ‘old, bad’ why to run a club with a 2 man team of the manager & executive (and the the problems this is likely to cause) they describe this current United team and its plight perfectly.

When you look at Sunderland, who are having phenomenal success at our expense, you can see the sort of set up we should be aiming for.

https://www.safc.com/club-information/club-personnel

Will COH bring in this sort of set up? It’s popular in the states but Bettis’ position on the board makes me think he’ll fight any changes tooth and nail.

I recall Bettis staying clearly in one interview that , to paraphrase - "we're not having a SD here"

Protecting his position , one might venture to suggest.

Goodness knows how he has the right to say that , but then again , his bosses (the owners and their cronies) appear to be a bunch of American Idiots abroad.

Not only do they fail to introduce the kind of SD structure which surrounds them across the pond - they also sack a 92 point manager , bring in an idiot who recruits a load of bobbar and then - in an embarrassingly comical move , sack him and donate the unbalanced squad to the man they sacked just weeks before.

I wouldn't trust them to sit the right way round on a toilet.

If SUFC were a soap opera on telly , you would dismiss it as having no basis in real life.

 

[FriethBlade]

Love a DOF, me

If only we'd discussed this before

 

[nopigfansintown]

Primarily to fill in for the lack of basic football knowledge in the non football staff. Giving the football staff's opinions on football matters primacy is one thing; having nothing at all to bounce their ideas off is another. Even the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s managers had that. That was my biggest take away from the Bettis interview.

 

[finlaytheblade]

I recall Bettis staying clearly in one interview that , to paraphrase - "we're not having a SD here"

Protecting his position , one might venture to suggest.

Goodness knows how he has the right to say that , but then again , his bosses (the owners and their cronies) appear to be a bunch of American Idiots abroad.

Not only do they fail to introduce the kind of SD structure which surrounds them across the pond - they also sack a 92 point manager , bring in an idiot who recruits a load of bobbar and then - in an embarrassingly comical move , sack him and donate the unbalanced squad to the man they sacked just weeks before.

I wouldn't trust them to sit the right way round on a toilet.

If SUFC were a soap opera on telly , you would dismiss it as having no basis in real life.

If the owners have not learned from mistakes made this summer i will be very surprised ! I feel sure we spent more than planned if Wilder had stayed. Panic buying set in with the season fast approaching and a team well short in certain areas.
Owners who couldnt have taken any advice on running a club how nieve is that,! bringing in a coach who himself was short on experience in team building and recruitment = disaster in the making.They realised maybe just in time before all was lost.
Sellers may become a good manager in time as he will have learned a lot from the disaster which was unfolding in front of him.
We will never know whether his methods would have worked as he had to go to save the club from a certain relegation.
20 to 30 minutes against Bristol city was so exciting to watch! If thats a sample of what he can bring to a club ! We have missed a trick as with the right backing he may have something special within his coaching manual

Will be interesting how his career developes ! Starting at. Zarogoza where they are propping up the rest.

 

[Berkshire Blade]

As non football industry people we don't REALLY know what one would add and do outside of buzzwords.

As long as signings and management appointments aren't completely alien to each other then I don't really know what a dof would add. Maybe it would avoid the mistake of this summer bit so should basic common sense.

 

[CPB]

It's something that needs to happen in a format that works for us. We don't have to just copy other clubs but we do need to recognise how other clubs have got their success and it isn't just chucking cash at it.

I'm not one that supported getting rid of Wilder but the bigger failing of all of that was thinking that simply appointing Selles who used "data" in conjunction with our amazing AI scouting was a recipe for success.

Its been noted before that Wilder has papered over some of the cracks of not having an infrastructure above or around him.

We need to think about the long term future of the club. I would like Wilder to be a success this stint and be here for the foreseeable. But we have to think about life after him. Whenever that may be. And sporting director or executive or team could help him now too.

Bettis' interview stated that the owners admitted they are new to running a football club and made a mistake. So there is a clear acknowledgement of a gap in relevant experience or knowledge.

 

[Stretch]

We need at least half a dozen of our players to grow a backbone first.

 

[Sean Thornton]

I recall Bettis staying clearly in one interview that , to paraphrase - "we're not having a SD here"

Protecting his position , one might venture to suggest.

Goodness knows how he has the right to say that , but then again , his bosses (the owners and their cronies) appear to be a bunch of American Idiots abroad.

Not only do they fail to introduce the kind of SD structure which surrounds them across the pond - they also sack a 92 point manager , bring in an idiot who recruits a load of bobbar and then - in an embarrassingly comical move , sack him and donate the unbalanced squad to the man they sacked just weeks before.

I wouldn't trust them to sit the right way round on a toilet.

If SUFC were a soap opera on telly , you would dismiss it as having no basis in real life.

Of course what he actually said and explained why……..

The suggestion is that a Director of Football allows the manager to concentrate on coaching and preparing the players, however Bettis says the club are of the opinion that Chris Wilder, in this instance, will and should have a major say in bringing in players and that adding another person on top of the Head of Recruitment may only serve to complicate matters.

For us there's no plans to have a Director of Football or a Sporting Director," Bettis told The Star in a wide-ranging interview. "It's just to bring in another Head of Recruitment and strengthen the data analysis below it as well; there will be extra headcount put into the department going forward. But there's no plans for [Director of Football].
"You also have to look at, when you look at our manager, who we brought in for the reasons we did this season, he's heavily involved in recruitment, and always has been. To put another layer of complexity or another person in terms of a Director of Football as well, I'm not sure it works. It works in some places and it doesn't in others.

I don't think there's really a blueprint for what's right or wrong, it's individuals. You could have a Head of Recruitment that could be really strong and then what's the difference between a Head of Recruitment and a Director of Football, to be honest? I would say if you are really picking at it, and a Head of Recruitment I suppose does this too, so I might be tripping myself up, but they look at the club as a whole and goes 'right, we need a left-back'. What have we got coming through the Academy, are we blocking pathways? Takes a more top-down view of it, but I think we already do that anyway. I think we are already mindful of that and showed that with what's going on with the Academy and the kids coming through and the opportunities they are getting at the moment. So there are no plans to change, is the answer."


He never says anything but when he does………

 

[LBA_Blade]

Of course what he actually said and explained why……..

The suggestion is that a Director of Football allows the manager to concentrate on coaching and preparing the players, however Bettis says the club are of the opinion that Chris Wilder, in this instance, will and should have a major say in bringing in players and that adding another person on top of the Head of Recruitment may only serve to complicate matters.

For us there's no plans to have a Director of Football or a Sporting Director," Bettis told The Star in a wide-ranging interview. "It's just to bring in another Head of Recruitment and strengthen the data analysis below it as well; there will be extra headcount put into the department going forward. But there's no plans for [Director of Football].
"You also have to look at, when you look at our manager, who we brought in for the reasons we did this season, he's heavily involved in recruitment, and always has been. To put another layer of complexity or another person in terms of a Director of Football as well, I'm not sure it works. It works in some places and it doesn't in others.

I don't think there's really a blueprint for what's right or wrong, it's individuals. You could have a Head of Recruitment that could be really strong and then what's the difference between a Head of Recruitment and a Director of Football, to be honest? I would say if you are really picking at it, and a Head of Recruitment I suppose does this too, so I might be tripping myself up, but they look at the club as a whole and goes 'right, we need a left-back'. What have we got coming through the Academy, are we blocking pathways? Takes a more top-down view of it, but I think we already do that anyway. I think we are already mindful of that and showed that with what's going on with the Academy and the kids coming through and the opportunities they are getting at the moment. So there are no plans to change, is the answer."


He never says anything but when he does………

For me if we did appoint someone it would only be on this basis, which could be needed. One obvious candidate that would bring profile is Southgate, he is used to working with U21s and also pathways into a First team. Downside he was on £5mill a year with England, so probably out of reach salary wise, unless he has a strategy for bringing through and loaning out players. Looking at offloading at the right price for the surplus and identifying the next N'Diaye or Brooks for Wilder.

 

[finlaytheblade]

It's something that needs to happen in a format that works for us. We don't have to just copy other clubs but we do need to recognise how other clubs have got their success and it isn't just chucking cash at it.

I'm not one that supported getting rid of Wilder but the bigger failing of all of that was thinking that simply appointing Selles who used "data" in conjunction with our amazing AI scouting was a recipe for success.

Its been noted before that Wilder has papered over some of the cracks of not having an infrastructure above or around him.

We need to think about the long term future of the club. I would like Wilder to be a success this stint and be here for the foreseeable. But we have to think about life after him. Whenever that may be. And sporting director or executive or team could help him now too.

Bettis' interview stated that the owners admitted they are new to running a football club and made a mistake. So there is a clear acknowledgement of a gap in relevant experience or knowledge.

They may have to get there cheque book out now( a lot) or lose the strength created with the recent promotions to the prem.
No doubt its going to be expensive to maintain a squad capable of having a crack next season as they have thrown away the momentum parashute money gave us.
To stay in this division with the level of costs we have will test there drive to
complete there goal which was and hopefully still is a team capable of sustaining prem football.
That seems a long way off.

 

[Need4speed]

There was a time when I didn't think we needed a Director of Football. Wilder was playing his 3 - 5 - 2 with wingbacks and overlapping centre backs.. The academy managed by Heckingbottom was playing a similar formation in terms of wing backs, the whole club was geared to this. There seemed to be the idea of continuity and i think it continued after Hecky became manager. But since Wilder returned replacing Hecky there has seen to be less joined up thinking. This certainly wasn't helped by the new owners management decision in the summer. What really concerns me is that there was nobody looking after those of our youngsters that are beyond u21 football but not ready for the first team, the likes of Marsh. Take Sam Curtis - forget whether he is good enough - but he had two loans last season and now he is suck back in the U21s. Oné and Seriki again argue they should be in the first team squad but they are not and what are they doing. My knowledge of our youngsters is patchy but I cannot remember a time when we had so few on loan.
Wilder is the current manager he should be able to concentrate on the hear and now - yes he should have knowledge of those coming through but the medium and long term needs to be managed by somebody else, whether you call him a Director of Football or not.

 

[JohnDenver]

From an external perspective I think we lack a credible management structure above the coach. DoF is one way to approach filling the hole.

But ultimately set it up however you want - just don’t have a know-nowt board sitting above a do-it-all coach. It’s mad.

 

[Aston max]

I tried looking elsewhere for a discussion about club structure but couldn’t see a dedicated thread so thought I’d start one.

It was discussed a few weeks back in Shoutbox but YouTube has just thrown up this old video which I think is worth a watch.



When you look at what the describe as the ‘old, bad’ why to run a club with a 2 man team of the manager & executive (and the the problems this is likely to cause) they describe this current United team and its plight perfectly.

When you look at Sunderland, who are having phenomenal success at our expense, you can see the sort of set up we should be aiming for.

https://www.safc.com/club-information/club-personnel

Will COH bring in this sort of set up? It’s popular in the states but Bettis’ position on the board makes me think he’ll fight any changes tooth and nail.

Yes absolutely we need a DOF, as I've said elsewhere the whole club needs a culture reset from top to bottom away from the bladey bladeness that infects the whole club .
I can just imagine Bettis and wilder a few weeks ago stood with a peroni in their hands clapping each other's backs saying " we got control of the club back " .
Totally IMO of course in my conspiracy theory brain.

 

[Sithblade]

If the owners have not learned from mistakes made this summer i will be very surprised ! I feel sure we spent more than planned if Wilder had stayed. Panic buying set in with the season fast approaching and a team well short in certain areas.
Owners who couldnt have taken any advice on running a club how nieve is that,! bringing in a coach who himself was short on experience in team building and recruitment = disaster in the making.They realised maybe just in time before all was lost.
Sellers may become a good manager in time as he will have learned a lot from the disaster which was unfolding in front of him.
We will never know whether his methods would have worked as he had to go to save the club from a certain relegation.
20 to 30 minutes against Bristol city was so exciting to watch! If thats a sample of what he can bring to a club ! We have missed a trick as with the right backing he may have something special within his coaching manual

Will be interesting how his career developes ! Starting at. Zarogoza where they are propping up the rest.

 

[Brynner]

Whether you call it a DOF or Sporting Director, the new owners, COH, needed an experienced football man to advise them after the play off final. Who advised them to 1) sack Wilder? 2) appoint Selles? 3) sign new players and sell/send players back, both pre and post Selles? The general consensus is 'an absolute disaster '.

Did they take the decisions themselves, with no real experience and knowledge of the game over here, or did Bettis (accountant) advise them (unlikely)?

Even Dave Bassett had Derek Dooley on the board of directors, as an experienced football man, to give him valued support.

Surely such an inexperienced and naive board, who are based across the pond with no day to day involvement, need an experienced football man who is aware and agreeable with the owners aims and objectives. Someone who is compatible with Wilder as to ways to try and achieve that.

One can see how things have happened with our porcine neighbours, as to how that has finally transpired. A naive, inexperienced but wealthy owner, with no experienced football man to advise him, leading to ultimate disaster.

Sadly I can see such a trajectory here, unless something happens differently. The only immediate hope is Chrissy changing the habits of a lifetime of obstinacy, being struck in the past and selecting/playing his favourites, plus many of the players suddenly finding a backbone.

I'm not holding my breath .

 

[CaptainMorgans]

Reading the quote above from Steve Bettis leaves me concerned.

A DoF is a completely different role to Head of Recruitment. It feels like we're stuck in "give the keys to Chris" mode. It's amateur and I think Bettis is amateur.

I'm getting tired of his "I'm just an accountant" stuff, whilst holding such a key position in the club.
I'm not dialled into the inner workings, but my hunch is that he needs replacing with someone with bigger and brighter ideas.

I don't think we'll ever progress properly with Bettis & Wilder pulling all the strings and it seems we've landed useless owners whose own instincts are so bad that it is still the least worst option.

 

[KMC-1889]

If we have any intent of being stable in the long term it has to happen. You can argue forever whether it was the right decision to change the manager but what you can’t argue is that the selection process was any good.

There was a decision to be made last season that we royally ballsed up.

1. if we’re changing direction of the club and we’re going to appoint managers like Selles then we needed to realise that these managers typically hold jobs for 18 mths - 2 years, which is why a DOF/Technical board is so important, because someone needs to have a long term vision and some stability. This needed the buy in at every level of the club with a clear plan of how it would be rolled out. What actually happened is we appointed a manager on a recommendation, brushed our hands and left him too it.

2. If we were committed to changing the manager but not the structure then there should have been some deep thought go into understand why wilder works when he’s at it. Is it style of play, motivational ability, effort? Whatever it is, it’s not unique to wilder so these attributes should have been understood and replacement selected with this criteria.

3. If we decided to keep the manager then there should have been an honest appraisal of his failings last season and collaborative approach to addressing these issues.

The fact I, a lowly middle management desk jockey, can spot these issues and seemingly the big money lads running the club can’t, is a bit of a worry.

 

[Pedro Verde]

We need some fucker to make sure we get value for money in the Transfer Market and his first stipulation should be no crocks