Derby 2 United 1 - View from the sofa

[Sheffsteel]

I’ll give some more examples of this league.

Blackburn Rovers are currently 7th, their fans think they are genuine play-off contenders but we out classed them the other week at their ground. Their fans all agree that we are the best team they’ve faced this season, in their words “much much better than Leeds, Aston Villa and Nottingham Forest” (3 other promotion contenders that have recently played at Ewood Park).

Derby County have generally played well and looked good against the better teams who play an open game attacking them.
Derby were outstanding playing a strongish Man United team at Old Trafford recently in the cup.
However unlike us they’ve really struggled playing teams the weak teams, recently lost to Rotherham and Bolton.

 

[super_pig]

agree .. our record against the top six is irrelevant if we keep beating up all the others

 

[Roygbiv]

But if we’d have beaten Derby no doubt we’d be winning the league and the best United team since the war.
With the respect the over reaction from some of our fans is laughable. We’ve now won 8 out of 11 since bringing in Norwood but the conclusion is we’re not good enough. All the neutrals and bookies who have no bias either way, still think we are serious contenders, agree not top 2 but big favourites for top 6.

The big positive for us is our consistency. Yes we might lose to the better teams BUT unlike the better teams
We are very consistent and tend to always beat the bottom teams.
Another big positive is that there are no outstanding teams, think a really low points total will gain promotion because many teams can beat each other. Consistency in performance is the key and that’s one of our strengths.

Our negative is the lack of individual quality. We rarely score goals from nothing and never long range shots.
But in today’s market quality costs.
What do you actually mean by the board have ruined the chance of promotion?
Do you want them to spend 20 or 30 in the January window. How about paying the new players £40K a week?
Then if we don’t get promotion we risk doing a Portsmouth and going bust.
All that patient hard work down the drain due to putting all our money on red gambling at the roulette table. Madness.

I think many of us just feel frustrated that this manager has put together such a great side that we have all fallen in love with but is unlikely to be able to finish the job off as we can't compete with the majority of the division. Its not about £40,000 a week players and getting into a Portsmouth style situation. We have the 17th highest wage bill in the league I think. Its just a huge shame that the situation at the top meant that we couldn't take a natural step forward financially. I believe if things were more stable at the top we wouldn't yesterday have been in a position where we were looking for Connor Washington to change things for us and we wouldn't be so desperate for McGoldrick to stay fit. I think there is a middle ground between bringing in two free transfers to add to our strike force and paying £40,000 a week for a player.

I am being pessimistic but I fear we won't realise just how close we are right now until this squad finally breaks up and we begin to hang around in the part of the table where our budget suggests we should be.

 

[Blend-it-like-Harris]

Too many pessimists on this forum IMHO - some perspective required on the two Sky matches seen this weekend. Derby look a much better outfit than Middlesborough based on those matches, and you don't have to ask any of the Sky pundits to say what they thought of the respective performances. Chansiri FC looked a rag-bag of a side and yet with the Forest Fairy waving his wand for them (assuming he stays and he plays that is) they might yet challenge for a top 6 place. Derby will be in the mix at the season end, and so will we. Chill out guys!!

 

[Addison]

Possession was 50-50 according to the stats. We battered them first half but did sod all with it when it mattered. The football is great to watch but is frustrating too as we should scored 4 or 5 goals in the first half but actually never looked likee scoring really when you take a step back despite thinking how superb we were. That's a concern - that we can play that well but never really look like scoring aside from the goal. I might get pelters for this but the likes of Mount, Wilson, Waghorn, Marriott at the top of the pitch is why they will probaby finish above us. We signed Johnson, McGoldrick (done well), Woodburn and Washington. We continue to go for the cheap as chips (granted Woodburn decent signing seemingly at the time) options and this approach means it will be around 10th again end of the season for me. Shame as Wilder is a tremendous manager. Not infallible as he showed today but gets the most out of what he has.

It is brilliant to see us up at the top with the budget we have but will be hard to maintain it due to the lack of depth for when our good players have dips. Oh for a Lawrence type off the bench or some of the WBA/Boro options they can bring in when players dip in form or they need to rotate. Credit to those teams for spening and having a go. Our cautious, penny pinching ways means we are relying on Wilder to work miracles again. He can only take us so far. Unless the board properly back him in January to give us that quality that can supplement/replace at times Duffy/Sharp then we will be around the same positon I feel. Cue criticism on here maybe from others but what I feel - it is so tight at the top and as SWFC proved you can go from 6th to mid table in a matter of hours. Today was a big missed opportunity. I felt a bit like the Hull game last year (nowhere near in terms of performance) but the 2nd half the players did not turn up but as they showed over the course of last season; they have struggled to maintain in consistently. The game today was a microcosm of our seaoson last year really. Hope they can prove me wrong over the coming months but think we will see now we play the better teams we may struggle to put together those runs of wins.

At times we are a joy to watch and that what make it so frustrating. It is right there; the chance to possibly go up even this season but we have not quite done enough in the window to really give us that serious chance I feel.

The Washington signing to me was the tell tale sign that this board will not properly back our superb manager to give us a legitimate chance to last the pace. Shame.

Thats an excellent summation of where we are as a team on the field DB.The problem is the Club off it and the ongoing Ownership dispute We are unlikely to see much in the way of backing in January whilever we have this hanging over our heads. The fault for that lies squarely at the owners door. The worry is we will miss out again and what impact that will have on the morale of the current management team.

 

[oldblade]

My expectations probably went too high after going top last week but today has brought me back down to earth. We aren't going to be serious contenders but we will continue to be a decent Championship side who are usually good to watch. Obviously we all want more but the lack of wins against the top sides in the last 2 seasons tells a story and we just fall short of the very best in this league.

It's a huge shame the board have ruined any chance of adding the few bits we need to this team and not giving our excellent manager the resources to make a real fist of it.

The top 6 will keep changing as the season progresses. As things stand we have played one of the current top 6 sides at home and beaten them. We have played two of the current top six away and lost to them.

Last season Middlesbrough finished 5th and yet had an appalling record against the better sides. They only managed to win one match against a top six side. They drew 2 and lost 7. A total of 5 points.

I think it is how we perform against the upper mid table sides (rather than the top sides) that will have a far greater impact on whether or not we finish in the top 6. And of course, as Sheffsteel has pointed out , it is important not to throw away points against the bottom sides.

 

[Roygbiv]

The top 6 will keep changing as the season progresses. As things stand we have played one of the current top 6 sides at home and beaten them. We have played two of the current top six away and lost to them.

Last season Middlesbrough finished 5th and yet had an appalling record against the better sides. They only managed to win one match against a top six side. They drew 2 and lost 7. A total of 5 points.

I think it is how we perform against the upper mid table sides (rather than the top sides) that will have a far greater impact on whether or not we finish in the top 6. And of course, as Sheffsteel has pointed out , it is important not to throw away points against the bottom sides.

I'm hopefully being overly negative. I was very deflated last night as it was another loss against a decent side. I looked at our bench and really didn't see how we could improve things and I think that is the biggest concern for me.

 

[Bill Johnson]

I'm hopefully being overly negative. I was very deflated last night as it was another loss against a decent side. I looked at our bench and really didn't see how we could improve things and I think that is the biggest concern for me.

You do realise having the temerity to see things objectively and without the pathetic fawning and inability to see the screamingly obvious will decimate your like count dont you? Just thought you should be made aware of this.

 

[1066blade]

agree .. our record against the top six is irrelevant if we keep beating up all the others

Ridiculous comment, because if we want success, eventually, all we are going to be playing are the top teams.(i.e Prem.)

 

[Roygbiv]

You do realise having the temerity to see things objectively and without the pathetic fawning and inability to see the screamingly obvious will decimate your like count dont you? Just thought you should be made aware of this.

I'm willing to give up likes in a bid to get this board back to the negative one I fell in love with.

 

[Bill Johnson]

I'm willing to give up likes in a bid to get this board back to the negative one I fell in love with.

It's not negativity Roy. It's pragmatic realism. I swear some on here must still believe in the tooth fairy, Easter bunny and father Xmas. Calling it as it actually is makes one no less a Blade. Wanting better isn't disloyal.
In fact the more the fans tolerate second rate from the boardroom the more it will get served up. I look at the composition of half the premier league and we've shit better but some seem happy to be perennial also rans.

 

[super_pig]

Ridiculous comment, because if we want success, eventually, all we are going to be playing are the top teams.(i.e Prem.)

sounds daft doesn’t it? do the maths
46 games -
12 games top 6 0 points
34 games 3 pts each = 102 points
my point being of course that it’s about points there is no stipulation in who we have to beat to get them
we can worry about the Premiership when we get there.. what with our improved budget of 200 quid

 

[Blend-it-like-Harris]

We continue to go for the cheap as chips (granted Woodburn decent signing seemingly at the time) options and this approach means it will be around 10th again end of the season for me.

Yeh Right ............... and Stoke to go up as Champions

 

[guancheblade]

First half very decent without enough end product.
Second half more like Hull away last season.
Hard to reconcile the two halves and the difference in attitude from the players who suddenly looked timid, lacking in confidence and negative was bizarre.

Probably had something to do with Wilder leaving the players to do their own half time team talk.

 

[dc_blade]

sounds daft doesn’t it? do the maths
46 games -
12 games top 6 0 points
34 games 3 pts each = 102 points
my point being of course that it’s about points there is no stipulation in who we have to beat to get them
we can worry about the Premiership when we get there.. what with our improved budget of 200 quid

Sensible post. If we keep turning over the supposed "lesser" teams we will do very nicely in this division, even if we lose a few against the others competing at the top.

 

[Marcus Tullius Cicero]

I don't think myself qualified to comment on tactics but I will pose a question. What change did Lampard make at half time and how did our Chris decide to combat said change?

 

[FYT]

'Weak link – I think Carson looked ropey all game and the two centre backs are quite immobile but were not tested.'

Agree with most of your views Deadbat other than the part about their two centre backs being immobile. I thought that Tifoli, their 19 year old number 5 who is on loan from Chelsea, had a fantastic game and for me was the best player on the park. He went about his job discretely, won every single challenge, was very quick and for his age showed good strength and a calm mature head.

I wouldn't be surprised to see this lad lining up with our Harry for England in the near future.

 

[Lane Ender]

Good assessment DB. I thought that typically for us after a fucking 'International Break' (cheers for that UEFA) we come out asleep and they capitalised on that. Given our bite after this and some pretty fucking excellent football thereon and our deserved equaliser, I felt we'd come out second half and cut Derby apart. Instead it was Birmingham City at home again. We deserved the loss and would have been grateful for the point, which is what I felt the game plan was after about an hour of us just playing so poorly.

Henderson 6/10. Can be outstanding but fuck me when he miscalculated that cross I was like, "What the FUCK are you doing, laddo?"
Stevens 6/10. He and Freeman did well in the first half. His tackle in the second half was about the only good thing he did after the break mind.
Basham 5/10. Not his best game, despite the goal. Bash is a Lane legend but fuck me sometimes he looks class, and others he's like the Basham we signed from Blackpool again
Egan 6/10. Wasn't much impressed
O'Connell 6.5/10. The best of the back three, but he and Egan need to ask themselves how a basic, curled cross from the flank drifted between them to allow Elliott to steal in with a flick
Freeman 5.5/10. He's better than Baldock IMHO and puts a shift in but positionally today he was left wanting at times. Second half he looked knackered
Fleck 6.5. Does all the hard yards in the middle and laid on a great goal
Norwood 5/10. Probably get slated for this, but I am still struggling with what he brings to the side. Today he was okay in spells, but I felt gambled with passes and gave the ball away too much for my liking. In the second half the game just passed him by
Duffy 6.5/10. Our best threat. Wrongly subbed
McGoldrick 6/10 All forward balls went to him, and he did his best, but it was always too far from Billy Sharp or any supporting AM support#
Sharp 5/10. Only because once again, he got nowt x nowt regarding balls to him to take

Clarke - Pointless sub
Coutts - Poor game
Washington - why?

Wilder - 5/10. Back to the drawing board. Missed opportunity to get some daylight between us and the pack

Crowd - 10/10. Outsung their sorry bunch of wankers

Struggling to see what Norwood brings to the side (Quote)
What!!!

 

[pommpey]

Struggling to see what Norwood brings to the side (Quote)
What!!!

Did you read the rest?

I've seen him a couple of times, but for all the brou-ha-ha about his ability (so far) which mentions him cracking it n from range and his deftness at dead balls and finding people at range, in the Derby game he failed to do any of that.

Hope this helps.

pommpey

 

[dc_blade]

Did you read the rest?

I've seen him a couple of times, but for all the brou-ha-ha about his ability (so far) which mentions him cracking it n from range and his deftness at dead balls and finding people at range, in the Derby game he failed to do any of that.

Hope this helps.

pommpey

Thought the first half was among his best performance for us, which is saying quite a lot as he's been consistently superb. He's the pivot for everything we do going forward--always available for a pass from the back three and very good at orchestrating our patient attacking moves. He's pretty good defensively as well, making several important tackles and interceptions. On Saturday I thought some of his long-range passes to get the wing backs into the game were fantastic.

 

[Deadbat]

Thought the first half was among his best performance for us, which is saying quite a lot as he's been consistently superb. He's the pivot for everything we do going forward--always available for a pass from the back three and very good at orchestrating our patient attacking moves. He's pretty good defensively as well, making several important tackles and interceptions. On Saturday I thought some of his long-range passes to get the wing backs into the game were fantastic.

The issues is he was non existent 2nd half as was Fleck and Duffy. We had no control of midfield from half time at all. I lot seem to be layign blame at Coutts or the wing backs but in reality the three that started did not win a ball, tackle or press long before the changes. They also were poor in possession. Might be the unpopular opinion but there said it. If any of them actually get stuck in, chase, do the basics 2nd half we have more of the ball and are not struggling so much. The goal was coming long before it did regardless of the subs.

 

[dc_blade]

The issues is he was non existent 2nd half as was Fleck and Duffy. We had no control of midfield from half time at all. I lot seem to be layign blame at Coutts or the wing backs but in reality the three that started did not win a ball, tackle or press long before the changes. They also were poor in possession. Might be the unpopular opinion but there said it. If any of them actually get stuck in, chase, do the basics 2nd half we have more of the ball and are not struggling so much. The goal was coming long before it did regardless of the subs.

Yeah, agree with all of that. I was responding to the idea that Norwood's been overrated, when in general he's been our best player since he arrived. But he was poor second half, and we're so reliant on what he brings that when he's off (Saturday and the Birmingham game) the whole thing seems to fall to bits.

I think Fleck is slightly out of form still, despite the amazing assist on Saturday. And I don't know how much use Duffy is when we're suddenly backs against the wall like we were second half.

I said after the game that it was pointless blaming the subs as we were already floundering by the time they came on.