Deliberate Handball is not a Booking?

[William Henry Foulkes]

Posted this elsewhere but thought it might be worth its own thread.

Fans and pundits often say that deliberate handball is a booking.

I'm pretty sure this is a fallacy - albeit one perpetuated by the media who, as ever, seem more interested in controversy than information.

Law 12 includes the following:

Cautionable offences
A player is cautioned and shown the yellow card if he commits any of the following seven offences:
• unsporting behaviour
• dissent by word or action
• persistent infringement of the Laws of the Game
• delaying the restart of play
• failure to respect the required distance when play is restarted with a corner kick, free kick or throw-in
• entering or re-entering the fi eld of play without the referee’s permission
• deliberately leaving the fi eld of play without the referee’s permission

Some of that is open to interpretation - and is further clarified elsewhere - but I'm pretty sure one incident of deliberate handball is not included. So if you deliberately handle the ball once that by itself is not a booking.

Whether it should be is a different matter.

As is the fact that the Laws and how they are applied are not communicated clearly at all, to even very keen fans of the game.

Why the hell are we misinformed, and then left guessing?

(I might have got this wrong: I attended one day of a badly run referee's course a while ago, which I then had to leave (bc of work) so I'm about as far from an expert as you can get.)

 

[bartman]

Posted this elsewhere but thought it might be worth its own thread.

Fans and pundits often say that deliberate handball is a booking.

I'm pretty sure this is a fallacy - albeit one perpetuated by the media who, as ever, seem more interested in controversy than information.

Law 12 includes the following:

Cautionable offences
A player is cautioned and shown the yellow card if he commits any of the following seven offences:
• unsporting behaviour
• dissent by word or action
• persistent infringement of the Laws of the Game
• delaying the restart of play
• failure to respect the required distance when play is restarted with a corner kick, free kick or throw-in
• entering or re-entering the fi eld of play without the referee’s permission
• deliberately leaving the fi eld of play without the referee’s permission

Some of that is open to interpretation - and is further clarified elsewhere - but I'm pretty sure one incident of deliberate handball is not included. So if you deliberately handle the ball once that by itself is not a booking.

Whether it should be is a different matter.

As is the fact that the Laws and how they are applied are not communicated clearly at all, to even very keen fans of the game.

Why the hell are we misinformed, and then left guessing?

(I might have got this wrong: I attended one day of a badly run referee's course a while ago, which I then had to leave (bc of work) so I'm about as far from an expert as you can get.)

Isn't it classed as unsporting behaviour?

 

[Guesty]

Jamie Ward got sent off at Wembley for two deliberate handballs, West did it twice yesterday and wasn't booked for it at all.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

Isn't it classed as unsporting behaviour?

I think it can be but isn't necessarily. Again the point being it isn't an automatic card, at least afaik.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Isn't it classed as unsporting behaviour?

Hand ball is only a booking if deemed by the ref to be unsporting behaviour unless it stops a goal being scored when it becomes a mandatory red card.

Make of that what you want.

Kicking the ball away is not a mandatory yellow but is always seen as unsporting behaviour, can't ever say I've seen a player get away with it.

 

[Liaminho9]

Hand ball is only a booking if deemed by the ref to be unsporting behaviour unless it stops a goal being scored when it becomes a mandatory red card.

Make of that what you want.

Kicking the ball away is not a mandatory yellow but is always seen as unsporting behaviour, can't ever say I've seen a player get away with it.

Morgan Schneiderlin at Bramall Lane this season, booked for tripping somebody, then 5 minutes later Wanyama tripped somebody as we were breaking, ref gave a free kick and Schneiderlin booted the ball into the crowd, but didn't even get a talking to.

 

[Gretschblade]

How about being "Billy Big Bolx" towards opposing fans after you have scored?

 

[Foxy]

What about consistent deliberate handball?

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

How about being "Billy Big Bolx" towards opposing fans after you have scored?

Never had a problem with that. I hate it when fans moan about it after throwing allsorts of abuse at opposing players.

 

[raul]

What about consistent deliberate handball?

I suppose you want a clampdown on garrotting too ??

 

[Foxy]

I suppose you want a clampdown on garrotting too ??

Haha, that was one of your finest tackles yet , still managed to score though, whilst choking.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

What about consistent deliberate handball?

Be treated the same as persistent fouling, expect to see the ref pointing out where you had hand balled it over the pitch as he dips into his back pocket.

 

[Foxy]

Be treated the same as persistent fouling, expect to see the ref pointing out where you had hand balled it over the pitch as he dips into his back pocket.

Or not, if he's like yesterdays

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Never had a problem with that. I hate it when fans moan about it after throwing allsorts of abuse at opposing players.

Doesn't happen that often, wasn't it a Portsmouth player who did it last and that was some years ago.

If you can't take that then there is sumat up with you.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Or not, if he's like yesterdays

I've always thought it would be better to play under laws like rugby instead of having each individual game reffed differently under each refs interpretation of the rules.

 

[WorkingtonBlade]

Don't forget that according to law 12 a handball is only handball in the first place if it is deliberate. Accidental handball isn't an offence in the laws of the game.

This law, in my opinion, simply isn't applied by referees. With very few of the handballs which are given could you possibly claim that the player set out to make contact with the ball with his hand. The rule which is applied appears to be an unwritten one which takes into account whether the hand or arm is away from the body, and whether advantage was gained by the players whose arm or hand the ball struck.

In my view it would be sensible either to say that as from the commencement of next season law 12 will be applied as it's written, or to rewrite it to describe what actually seems to apply. At least that way everyone would know what's being applied, and the referees would all be working from exactly the same wording.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

Don't forget that according to law 12 a handball is only handball in the first place if it is deliberate

Yes. Though the deliberate has been interpreted further.

In Fifa's Laws of the Game 2005, Law 12 says a free-kick or penalty will be awarded if a player "handles the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within his own penalty area)".

Page 67 of the document gives "additional information for referees, assistant referees and fourth officials".

It adds: "Referees are reminded that deliberately handling the ball is normally punished only by a direct free-kick or penalty kick if the offence occurred inside the penalty area.

"A caution or dismissal is not normally required." [which was the point of the OP, so that's been answered, assuming all this is up-to-date]

However, the document fails to describe what constitutes deliberate handball, which places the responsibility firmly on the referee and referees' assistants.

Former Premier League referee David Elleray said the referee's interpretation depends on whether the hand or arm is in an "unnatural" position at the point of contact.

"Referees look at two specifics - did the hand or arm go towards the ball or in a manner which would block the ball, or is the hand in a position where it would not normally be?" Elleray told BBC Sport.

"The challenging decisions are if the defending player spreads their arms to make themselves bigger. [Colin Hendry used to do this all the time when Blackburn won the League in 94/5]

"If the ball hits the arm then the referee must decide whether this action was to deliberately block the ball or whether the player has raised their arms to protect themselves - especially if the ball is hit at speed."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/rules_and_equipment/4524354.stm

 

[WorkingtonBlade]

But interpretated only by David Elleray talking to the press - not by anything in the rule book. In other words, that's David Elerray's interpretation, but another referee may have a different interpretation.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

But interpretated only by David Elleray talking to the press - not by anything in the rule book. In other words, that's David Elerray's interpretation, but another referee may have a different interpretation.

That's the big problem that I'd pointed out earlier, every game is in fact a unique one off event never to be repeated or contested ever again because it relies on the refs interpretation of what he see's.

Laws would help.

Another example; how many fouls before you get booked for persistent fouling?
Depends which side of the bed the ref got out of that morning.
When I was I lad basketball allowed five personal fouls then you were out of the game. Consistent every game.

 

[JJBlade]

Five personal fouls in football would be good fun though. You could snap four people in half and then behave like a saint for the rest of the game.
Most of the personal fouls in basketball aren't even fouls, it's just people running into you and you not having the unique ability to disappear.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Five personal fouls in football would be good fun though. You could snap four people in half and then behave like a saint for the rest of the game.
Most of the personal fouls in basketball aren't even fouls, it's just people running into you and you not having the unique ability to disappear.

Agree about fouls in basketball generally not being fouls in the same sense as a football foul but having a set number would mean a consistently reffed game.
At the moment you get booked on the whim of the ref and next week you'll see someone getting away with it.