Defending/Attacking Balance

[Niceguyeddie]

Mousset looked fit enough to me? Did Wilder say he wasn’t fit?

He's been saying he isn't got enough for 90 minutes since we signed him and personally I thought he was the poorest of all the strikers today
Looked Totally lacklustre

 

[BladeInIreland]

He's been saying he isn't got enough for 90 minutes since we signed him and personally I thought he was the poorest of all the strikers today
Looked Totally lacklustre

Really? I thought he looked really good. Opinions differ hugely on our strikers.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

But we’ve got a point away in the Premier League and every one is precious. We could’ve easily lost today and would’ve but for Hendo.

We’re learning, doing very well and look at home in the Prem. Just cut the attackers in particular a bit of slack.

We looked to have the ball most of the time to me, good control of the game.

Goal wise McBurnie was only 1' 0" off winning it.

Problem was McBurnie only had that one chance and no one else seemed to get a chance.
We need to get back to putting in crosses in from the last 18 yards, not pumping it up to the front two, hoping it will stick.

We're still looking very good at getting the ball back quickly in their half.

Nearly there.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

You’ve highlighted the key problem in playing a 3 with a holding player. That player has to be bang on with everything in this division and Norwood isn’t unfortunately.



As above, you drop Lunny then you are requiring Norwood to be far more athletic and defend better.

Just to add further - have the centre backs going forward had any positive impact so far ?

Centre backs going forward is a luxury at the moment.

That's what stopping the crosses coming in as much beyond the 18 yard line.

 

[CaptainMorgans]

We weren't defensively strong today. We gifted Watford three huge chances. They missed an open net from 5 yards out. We've made big individual errors in a lot of games. We're not good enough at the back to adapt a policy of hoping to keep a clean sheet & nick one going forwards.

 

[Latters]

Though, if the question is “how can we become more creative?”, leaving out the most creative player in the current starting XI (Norwood) to make way for another (Freeman) ... might not take us very far forward?

Norwood looked our best player, technically, today by a mile.

I think we need to find a way to play them both.

I think you’re doing Lundstram a disservice here. Maybe Norwood was better today, but Lundy’s shown plenty of creativity so far and I’d say he’s been arguably our best player this season. He’s put some brilliant passes through; the one Mousse scored at Everton and a couple for McGoldrick at Bournemouth to mention three of them. Give him the license and he’s plenty creative. With Freeman in the team as well, I think we’d make a shit load of chances.

 

[Akinbiyi]

And we can carry on and not score goals? What do you do? I would trust our defence and make the sacrafice, especially at home.

I’m not saying I disagree if you think that’s what I mean. I’m just saying what I think (know) the reason is for our impotence upfront. And personally I don’t think it’s red button panic stations just yet.

 

[Akinbiyi]

We looked to have the ball most of the time to me, good control of the game.

Goal wise McBurnie was only 1' 0" off winning it.

Problem was McBurnie only had that one chance and no one else seemed to get a chance.
We need to get back to putting in crosses in from the last 18 yards, not pumping it up to the front two, hoping it will stick.

We're still looking very good at getting the ball back quickly in their half.

Nearly there.

Agreed mate. You’re meant to be grumpy.

 

[Akinbiyi]

I’ll answer as a general opinion if that’s ok ? but I think I’d abort the 5-3-2 and switch to a 4-1-3-2 because as Akinbiyi et al. say, we would be so open using an attacking midfielder in this formation.

I don’t want Norwood dropping at all, but, if we persist with a 3 in midfield, he is not good enough as a holding player in this division. We have no better at present so it’d be a case of let’s see if we can stay up and then he’d need replacing.

Going 4 at the back and pushing another into midfield would keep him in the team as the ball player he is because there would be more support defensively.

What value has pushing JOC and Bash forward really had ? Some of Bash and Baldock’s link up play today was eye wateringly poor. Would Baldock and Enda be better linking with another midfielder ?

Don’t want to say we’d lose every game 4-3 if we had an attacking midfielder because I don’t think we would but I DO think we’d be more open and although it’s a flat 3 Lunny and Fleck have a fair bit of attacking license anyway - it’s not like those 3 are just restricted to sitting in front of the defence

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I’m not saying I disagree if you think that’s what I mean. I’m just saying what I think (know) the reason is for our impotence upfront. And personally I don’t think it’s red button panic stations just yet.

Agree no panic yet, just don't want it to get that far. Be bold and in certain games, be cautious flat 3 in others. Wilder so far has a not lose first attitude.

 

[Akinbiyi]

Agree no panic yet, just don't want it to get that far. Be bold and in certain games, be cautious flat 3 in others. Wilder so far has a not lose first attitude.

And it’s served us well hasn’t it? Gave us all 3 memorable away games... today less so

But no panic yet. My thread was more to save the strikers the hammer they’re unfairly getting, and explain WHY they’re not looking as effective

 

[Bruce Wayne]

And it’s served us well hasn’t it? Gave us all 3 memorable away games... today less so

But no panic yet. My thread was more to save the strikers the hammer they’re unfairly getting, and explain WHY they’re not looking as effective

They aren't effective because we don't have a player emploted in the hole like Duffy/Freeman.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Agreed mate. You’re meant to be grumpy.

Not whilst watching Wilders mob.

 

[mancunianblade]

Think it's worth trying a slight change in formation Freeman needs to be playing as a #10. But we can’t sacrifice numbers at the back or midfield we have to look at dropping an out and out striker for this..the the real question here would be who to partner a Freeman and I think with his power and pace in the channels it has to be Mousset..

 

[super_pig]

So we aren’t scoring many goals, our top scorer is OG, and we all keep discussing strike pairings as if it’s suddenly going to click us into scoring 4 a game. You’re wrong, it won’t. Be it Billy with Oli, Didsy with Moose or Billy with Robinson - we simply will not become a free scoring team and that’s because of the shape and the organisation of the team. This is not a thread to slander ANY of the attackers so please don’t turn it into a slanging match because I can’t be arsed to see it. It’s not like they’re having chances put on a platter week in week out

We have abandoned our old shape of one behind the attacker but in honesty we did a lot towards the end of last season. Duffy often dropping in. After the collapse at Villa the mindset changed and we haven’t lost away from home since so you can’t say it’s not worked. Our priority now is to keep the ball out of the net first and foremost.

For the team to be free scoring with the system we currently play the front 2 would need to be Messi and Mbappe. There is no link between the midfield and attack that is quick enough to spring any sort of counter and when the defences are packed we don’t quite have the quality to unlock them. And that’s ok - we’re newly promoted and we’ve been fucking good.

The balance we currently have has us as the joint second best team is the division defensively. Better than or equal to Man City, Spurs, Arsenal and Man United. We aren’t going to our score these teams (see Norwich’s approach for proof of that) but we can be solid first and foremost, then you only need 1 to win. Make sure we don’t concede first, try and score second. It might not be what you want to see, but it is what will keep us in the division.

good analysis but i reckon we need to tailor our approach for each opponent.. newcastle aren’t man city

 

[HoodedClaw]

Still struggling to understand what Freeman did to get dropped, thought the did well in the 3 league matches he played.

As Fleck got straight back in the team after injury, rightly or wrongly as there was a phrase about your shirt to lose, then I would play him instead of Robinson.

 

[Akinbiyi]

Still struggling to understand what Freeman did to get dropped, thought the did well in the 3 league matches he played.

As Fleck got straight back in the team after injury, rightly or wrongly as there was a phrase about your shirt to lose, then I would play him instead of Robinson.

Not sure but Fleck has been outstanding since returning. I think you can make a case for playing them both together mind but would require a change of shape in midfield

 

[HoodedClaw]

Not sure but Fleck has been outstanding since returning. I think you can make a case for playing them both together mind but would require a change of shape in midfield

Agree Fleck's been outstanding so the competition is working. I do feel we are missing the "10" role though and Robinson hasn't offered enough for me so far so I'd play Freeman instead. Keeps the midfield solidity but hopefully add a bit of creativity and trickery going forward.

 

[Akinbiyi]

We weren't defensively strong today. We gifted Watford three huge chances. They missed an open net from 5 yards out. We've made big individual errors in a lot of games. We're not good enough at the back to adapt a policy of hoping to keep a clean sheet & nick one going forwards.

Beggars belief how we have the 2nd best defensive record in the division then eh?

 

[BushBlade]

I’d drop Norwood before I dropped Lundy.

It would be easier, he’s smaller, one punch would probably do it.

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

It would be easier, he’s smaller, one punch would probably do it.

You'd probably have to cosh Lunny.

 

[Akinbiyi]

You'd probably have to cosh Lunny.

Lunny would be hard to knock out

 

[CaptainMorgans]

Beggars belief how we have the 2nd best defensive record in the division then eh?

In terms of XG Against we're about 8th. That defensive record is unlikely to last long if we keep gifting opponents such big chances. We need to improve, I'm not sure why you're so sensitive about it.

 

[Akinbiyi]

In terms of XG Against we're about 8th. That defensive record is unlikely to last long if we keep gifting opponents such big chances. We need to improve, I'm not sure why you're so sensitive about it.

The fucking xG table. x fucking G. Give it a rest

 

[BettingBlade]

The fucking xG table. x fucking G. Give it a rest

It’s the new hipster football thing I think. Honestly bores me to death when I’m listening to anything football related and they start using XG as if it’s gospel.

 

[Akinbiyi]

It’s the new hipster football thing I think. Honestly bores me to death when I’m listening to anything football related and they start using XG as if it’s gospel.

It’s a little bit interesting. But how you can definitively say what shots should and shouldn’t be goals is absolutely beyond me.

 

[BettingBlade]

It’s a little bit interesting. But how you can definitively say what shots should and shouldn’t be goals is absolutely beyond me.

I agree most stats have relevance and I understand that xg is a more accurate way of judging chances but the way I’ve heard some people talk about it whilst completely disregarding the human element of the game is baffling.

 

[Toronto Blade]

We looked to have the ball most of the time to me, good control of the game.

Goal wise McBurnie was only 1' 0" off winning it.

Problem was McBurnie only had that one chance and no one else seemed to get a chance.
We need to get back to putting in crosses in from the last 18 yards, not pumping it up to the front two, hoping it will stick.

We're still looking very good at getting the ball back quickly in their half.

Nearly there.

Especially when the 2 defenders he was battling with all game were 6'3 and 6'5.

 

[Darlington82]

Great debate, the challenge is last year 3 points gets you promoted and 1 point does not, whereas 1 can keep you up, 0 does not this year.

Personaly I feel we have to get Freeman in, yesterday I would have taken off Lunny and gone for it in our old style, or Bash off and gone 4 at the back. Lets face it our overlapping did not work and left us exposed, which is unusual.

Going to the next match I'd have Freeman in for Robinson and keep the flat 3.

Outside the top 6 at home I'd drop Lunny, over Fleck, we need to run at defenses to get pens, apart from the VAR missed handball I can not remember another shout for one, so is an important aspect of the game we are missing.

 

[Niceguyeddie]

It’s the new hipster football thing I think. Honestly bores me to death when I’m listening to anything football related and they start using XG as if it’s gospel.

Bit like your post does to everyone else