Cup win vs. League Survival?

[FMBlade1]

Prompted by the other thread, and previous discussions on this issue I thought to put this to an opinion poll to see what others think.

(Now ironically I don't actually think there is a negative correlation between taking cups seriously leading to relegation, so its a false hypothetical question. The only possible examples proving that it does are Birmingham 2011 and Wigan 2013. Portsmouth reached the FA Cup final in 2010, though were dead certs for relegation anyway due to external factors. They won of course in 2008 though were no-where near a relegation fight, and it wasn't them taking the cup seriously that led to their demise. If you asked their fans if they'd 'give' the trophy back for a place in the PL I reckon they'd keep the trophy. These clubs also got a first taste of European football as a consequence. I felt we should have taken last night seriously... but that's a slightly different debate.)

Let's say for sake of argument that there is negative correlation, and a cup win or final would lead to our relegation and a barren spell outside the PL... would we accept that? Bearing in mind that we haven't won a trophy since 1925, haven't reached a final since the 1930's and have never played in the Europa League. There are valid arguments against it, but looking to see where the opinions are

UTB

 

[mattbianco1]

Prompted by the other thread, and previous discussions on this issue I thought to put this to an opinion poll to see what others think.

(Now ironically I don't actually think there is a negative correlation between taking cups seriously leading to relegation, so its a false hypothetical question. The only possible examples proving that it does are Birmingham 2011 and Wigan 2013. Portsmouth reached the FA Cup final in 2010, though were dead certs for relegation anyway due to external factors. They won of course in 2008 though were no-where near a relegation fight, and it wasn't them taking the cup seriously that led to their demise. If you asked their fans if they'd 'give' the trophy back for a place in the PL I reckon they'd keep the trophy. These clubs also got a first taste of European football as a consequence. I felt we should have taken last night seriously... but that's a slightly different debate.)

Let's say for sake of argument that there is negative correlation, and a cup win or final would lead to our relegation and a barren spell outside the PL... would we accept that? Bearing in mind that we haven't won a trophy since 1925, haven't reached a final since the 1930's and have never played in the Europa League. There are valid arguments against it, but looking to see where the opinions are

UTB

If we win the cup but get relegated it would be a pointless task. We would have a championship squad with no means of buying players capable of European Football.

If we can sustain the PL status for 2-3 years, then we may be in a position to enjoy good cup runs with a view to winning one.

If we draw with Liverpool saturday, last night will be forgotten by most

 

[Punk Blade]

Which cup? My order of preference would be FA Cup win, survival, any other cup outcome.

Going back a bit further in the PL era, Middlesbrough lost both cup finals and got relegated in ‘97.

 

[FMBlade1]

Which cup? My order of preference would be FA Cup win, survival, any other cup outcome.

Going back a bit further in the PL era, Middlesbrough lost both cup finals and got relegated in ‘97.

FA Cup or League Cup, and yeah fair point there is a difference between the two though treating them the same here.

Interesting point about Middlesborough which shows the 'risk'. Though the FA cost them:

'It was a season mired in controversy too, with Middlesbrough docked three points by the Football Association after claiming they were unable to field a team for an away fixture at Blackburn due to injury and illness. It proved the ultimate sanction, with those three points proving the difference between staying up and going down.'

There's an article about it here: https://www.planetfootball.com/nostalgia/tribute-fantastic-flawed-middlesbrough-side-96-97/

Don't know if those injuries were as a result of cup runs, Boro blade Boroblade1889 any idea?

 

[JackSUFC]

Right now league survival 1 million %.

If we spend the next 5/6 years finishing mid-table in the PL, then probably a cup win.

 

[HoodedClaw]

Couldn't care less about the cups for the next couple of seasons

I want to see ground, academy and team improvements, cups aren't going to pay for that.

 

[PokerBlade]

Right now, given the ownership situation, we need more than ever to have a couple of years of big money in the Prem. The long term future of the club would be so much better for that. Add to that that, for me and a lot of the others, the magic of the FA Cup has gone. I'd love to see us lift a major trophy but not so much that I'd sacrifice seeing quality football week in week out, holding on to our best talent, signing exciting players, and everything else.

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

FA Cup over survival every single time.

 

[Revolution]

I've seen the team survive in the Premier League.

I've never seen them win a trophy. So if it was a binary choice I'd pick the cup.

 

[YES Blade]

Is that what football has become for fans? Stay in the top league and bank the money?

It's an absolute disgrace that a club of our size hasn't even reached a final in getting on for 100 years!

We all want the club to progress and stay in the Premier League, but if we can't juggle that with beating League One clubs at home in the cup, there is something wrong.

 

[SwissBlade]

We're going to survive anyway, would be great for us to get into the top 10.

I'd like us to have a go at the FA Cup as well and don't see why we can't, we play 8 league games fewer in the premier league than the championship.

 

[yorkshirecoast]

League survival without doubt - but that doesn’t excuse playing shite and losing to a L1 side in the cup.

 

[TaipeiBlade]

League

If we stay up, Im sure we can establish ourselves as a solid top 10 team. We've got the manager, the support and the backbone of a good side.

If we can avoid the drop this season, we'll be in thw top flight for a while.

 

[Badger Blade]

We can't win for toffee at Wembley so lets save ourselves the hassle!

 

[Sheffsteel]

Wining the EFL Cup wins £100K in prize money
Winning the FA Cup wins £2 million in prize money (that’s 20 times more)
And being in the PL wins at least £120 million a season in prize money (that’s 1,200 times more prize money).

You do the mathe.

Once we are financially established....then I’d consider winning a cup even if it meant relegation
But at the moment a few seasons in the PL over rides everything.

 

[Kanye]

Survival, all day long. If we can establish ourselves in this league, we potentially set the club up for the next decade. If we are relegated, especially with the current ownership situation, we could see the club see the same kind of misfortune that it did pre-Wilder.

However, if/when we do become an established PL team, I'd like to see us take the cups more seriously. Partly because breaking into the top 6/7 is near impossible without a huge stroke of luck, but also because the joy of winning a cup would outweigh the joy of finishing 6th, rather than 12th.

 

[Kanye]

You do the mathe.

 

[originaltrueblade]

Forget the cups we are in the premier league to stay there not just making up the numbers....Saturday Forecast 2-1 BLADES

 

[HeCanDoMagic]

Which cup? My order of preference would be FA Cup win, survival, any other cup outcome.

Going back a bit further in the PL era, Middlesbrough lost both cup finals and got relegated in ‘97.

That sounds like season straight out of the SUFC playbook.

 

[sufcboy95]

League survival every day of the week. That’s what is most beneficial for the longevity of the club. Being in the championship and having to play Europa league would give us no chance of promotion.
However I can’t understand why teams like West Ham, Everton etc don’t play full strength teams

 

[3-GBlade]

A place in the Premier League or winning the league cup????
Now if you meant The Cup, as in the FA Challenge Cup I could be tempted to dip out of the EPL in 2023/24 so we can then win the FA Cup in our Centenary of Winning Fuck All year.

 

[Harry's Game]

Put the club on a stable financial footing by staying up two seasons minimum.

Then look towards a cup run / win

 

[HighfieldBlade]

We can do both.

 

[HermitageBlade]

Is this a generational thing? I think the younger Blades have been brought up on the Sky premiership hype whilst the FA Cup has gradually fallen from grace. Whereas for me I’d take the FA Cup over everything as I still see it as the holy grail.

 

[BushBlade]

League survival every day of the week. That’s what is most beneficial for the longevity of the club. Being in the championship and having to play Europa league would give us no chance of promotion.
However I can’t understand why teams like West Ham, Everton etc don’t play full strength teams

Agree, right now survival is the most important thing by far. But if we’ve been in the PL for a few seasons, have upgraded BL and the academy, we should be willing to risk relegation for a cup. And for clubs like West Ham, the risk is minimal. Unless they think they can genuinely challenge for top six.

And I’d say we’re actually a lot more likely to stay up than win a cup. Most cups are won by the top six.

 

[grafikhaus]

'Cup win' is not a binary option. Which cup? Certainly not the CarabaoCheckATrade shit and, personally, The FA Cup is a shadow of what it used to be. 100% survival every time before we mount a serious cup challenge.

And to quote Revolution :

'So the Europa League is worthless as well?

What is your goal for us? A 10th place finish and immediate exits from the Cup every year?'

While excusing the condescension, a tenth place finish in the PL after six years in League One sounds just fine to me. People forget how far and fast we've progressed. 'Going for broke' is like a weed that's shot up too fast after a bit of sun and rain - no foundations or roots. We're doing fine with the things that really matter. Let's leave it to teams like City or Liverpool who have the depths of squad and money to 'dabble' with these cups.

 

[ThatJa]

Cup win = 1 trophy and 50k

League Survival = 0 trophies & 200m

Theres the difference, thought I would love both.

 

[BushBlade]

'Cup win' is not a binary option. Which cup? Certainly not the CarabaoCheckATrade shit and, personally, The FA Cup is a shadow of what it used to be. 100% survival every time before we mount a serious cup challenge.

And to quote Revolution :

'So the Europa League is worthless as well?

What is your goal for us? A 10th place finish and immediate exits from the Cup every year?'

While excusing the condescension, a tenth place finish in the PL after six years in League One sounds just fine to me. People forget how far and fast we've progressed. 'Going for broke' is like a weed that's shot up too fast after a bit of sun and rain - no foundations or roots. We're doing fine with the things that really matter. Let's leave it to teams like City or Liverpool who have the depths of squad and money to 'dabble' with these cups.

That reminded me of someone saying about the pigs when Wilkinson was manager ‘they had no ambition, they’re just happy to finish mid table every season.’ Well they found their ambition, then they let it get the better of them and that’s why they’ve been shit for twenty years.

 

[Niceguyeddie]

Would you be happy to win a trophy and then be shot for a few decades like Wednesday ,Coventry Wigan and Luton
Or stay up and be established buying better players every year like Burnley bournemouth and Southampton
Even Swansea and Birmingham turned to.shit after winning a trophy
Maybe it's a curse

 

[gordoncharles]

Once we are financially established....then I’d consider winning a cup even if it meant relegation
But at the moment a few seasons in the PL over rides everything.

No Premier League team below the top six is ever financially established.

As soon as relegation happens, as it inevitably will to all but that top six + probably Everton, panic ensues.