Coutts

[Cerberus Blade]

De Bruyne's stats show he often gives the ball away but he admits it's part and parcel of his play as someone who gets on the ball a lot to create and keep things ticking.

Oh hey ho!
His second name is Norwood,
Oh hey ho!
He always gives the bal a-way-hay!

 

[SHOREHAMST.com]

It’s no coincidence the reason Fleck has been out of form has coincided with Norwood’s introduction to the team. Norwood’s sexy 70 years passes are very nice to watch but what happens as a result of that? Fleck and others are 40 yards behind play. Maybe they can learn to play together more effectively but at the minute Coutts deserves a start ahead of Norwood for me.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

Here is how our midfield improves.

- Duffy releases the ball earlier sometimes.
- Freeman finds his form
- Fleck regains his form
- We get a better partner up top for Billy in January.

Norwood will look like a world beater then.

absolutely 100% agree - if that happens we can sill finish top 2.

Would love it to happen - not quite sure it will, although a decent partner for billy is still my 1st call.

UTB

 

[Speedracer]

Maybe they can learn to play together more effectively but at the minute Coutts deserves a start ahead of Norwood for me.

Deserves a start over Norwood? Listen I want & hope Coutts to get back to full fitness asap, but he has a way to go yet before before that can happen.

 

[FTPE]

The best way for Coutts to come back would be in place of Norwood, but Norwood could have 10 stinkers in a row and Wilder still wouldn't drop him. Realistically the most likely way is to play him and Norwood deep with Fleck or Duffy ahead of them.

Whatever, Coutts won't get back to his best without playing and we need to get him on the pitch sooner rather than later if we want him to be any sort of influence this season.




Everything. Really? Retaining possession? Not getting tackled? Making the correct choices? Not giving the ball away in dangerous areas? Running into the space when it's there?

Coutts is better than Norwood in a number of ways. The pre injury Coutts was better than Norwood, or at least a better fit in this team and system.

Norwood's not a better player than Fleck either. Fleck's indifferent form shouldn't cloud judgement on that. He's a true all rounder and the best player we have. Getting him back to his best could be a huge factor for us and Wilder has to think about how to do that.

All in all.
Regardless of our team around them, let's say "pound 4 pound: you think Coutts is a better player then Norwood?

 

[Ricky]

All in all.
Regardless of our team around them, let's say "pound 4 pound: you think Coutts is a better player then Norwood?

If both are at their best, I prefer Coutts and say he's the better all round player, even if Norwood may be more eye catching and directly creative.

 

[FTPE]

If both are at their best, I prefer Coutts and say he's the better all round player, even if Norwood may be more eye catching and directly creative.

Yeah, ok fair enough.
I dismissed it earlier but thinking about it I also agree that Coutts does run into space/make himself more available better than Norwood does.

 

[FTPE]

If both are at their best, I prefer Coutts and say he's the better all round player, even if Norwood may be more eye catching and directly creative.

Oh wait, what's the difference between being creative, and being "directly creative"?

 

[adebo]

Oh hey ho!
His second name is Norwood,
Oh hey ho!
He always gives the bal a-way-hay!

Or he whips in the only ball of quality for Billy on Saturday, isnt perspective wonderful!

 

[Ricky]

Oh wait, what's the difference between being creative, and being "directly creative"?

Norwood hitting one of his Ollywood passes that leads directly to a goal is what I'd call directly creative. Coutts building the play and working the team into good attacking positions being less direct, but still key to creating opportunities.

I think Coutts built a better platform for the rest of the team. Norwood will play more 'key passes'.

 

[FTPE]

It’s no coincidence the reason Fleck has been out of form has coincided with Norwood’s introduction to the team. Norwood’s sexy 70 years passes are very nice to watch but what happens as a result of that? Fleck and others are 40 yards behind play. Maybe they can learn to play together more effectively but at the minute Coutts deserves a start ahead of Norwood for me.

That's a good way of putting it I suppose. You feel Norwood isn't bringing out the best in Fleck, but as you point out that's also up to Fleck to rectify. He might miss a short ball to Fleck in favour of a longer sweeping one out wide but isn't that what we are wanting?
One or two less passes and a bit more directness and speed at times? Mix them both.
Regardless of how my comments on here are sounding I love Coutts but he had one pace.

 

[FTPE]

Norwood hitting one of his Ollywood passes that leads directly to a goal is what I'd call directly creative. Coutts building the play and working the team into good attacking positions being less direct, but still key to creating opportunities.

I think Coutts built a better platform for the rest of the team. Norwood will play more 'key passes'.

Very well explained but are we in danger of losing that killer pass then? Aren't we over playing in vital areas as it is?

If we get a inteligent and pacey runner up front in January, Ollie will look like Pirlo.

 

[ThatJa]

Head to head I think Norwood is better at everthing that Coutts does.

Coutts played when Duffy, Clarke and Fleck were at their best don't forget.

No such thing as a 28 day loan anymore I don't think, its 3months (short) or 9month (long) in terms of loans. Pretty certain one month loans are only development type loans.

 

[Ricky]

Very well explained but are we in danger of losing that killer pass then? Aren't we over playing in vital areas as it is?

If we get a inteligent and pacey runner up front in January, Ollie will look like Pirlo.

Remember how many assists Fleck was getting last season, and the season before? He's capable of a killer pass, so is Duffy. I feel they'd step up if Norwood was out.

But while Norwood's in, we won't lose his killer balls. The one on Saturday was a perfect example of the sort of thing I'll never criticise him for trying. Someone has to, and he's the best we've got for it currently. Can't walk it into the net every time. Could just really do with Fleck upping his game and making us less reliant on Norwood's assists.

 

[wizadry]

People are writing Fleck off way too easily. If we were to drop Fleck for Coutts then our results will not improve and will probably get worse if anything.

Coutts is quite clearly not ready to start Championship games yet so why are people clamouring for it?

Norwood is more than staking his claim at the minute so why do people want him dropping?

If we drop Duffy we lose one of our very few creative sparks so why would we drop him for Coutts?

Honestly, the midfield isn’t an issue where bringing Coutts in would make it any better. The only way the midfield can be made better is if we bring better players than Fleck and Duffy in and we all know that won’t happen as that would cost a small fortune.

The one thing I do agree with is that if Coutts is to start games or come on it has to be in the role that is currently been deployed by Norwood, this is where he is most effective.

 

[SUFC Handsworth]

Has he played as part of the same system he thrived in before his injury? No. Suggestions he isn’t the same player are unjust when he’s being played out wide or somewhere else because of other players.

That system needs to be given a chance before it can be claimed he’s not yet ready.

It also needs to be given a chance to get our season back on track. After all, it topped the league the last time we played it.

Coutts - Fleck
—— Duffy ——

Bang on pal, playing Coutts in his rightful position will get the best of out of the other two as well, Fleck will be getting the ball to feet (instead of 20 yards over his head thanks to Norwood's Hollywood punts). The current situation with Coutts reminds of past England teams, where they've tried to shoe-horn Scholes (or Hoddle before him) into a left side midfield role.

 

[SUFC Handsworth]

That's a good way of putting it I suppose. You feel Norwood isn't bringing out the best in Fleck, but as you point out that's also up to Fleck to rectify. He might miss a short ball to Fleck in favour of a longer sweeping one out wide but isn't that what we are wanting?
One or two less passes and a bit more directness and speed at times? Mix them both.
Regardless of how my comments on here are sounding I love Coutts but he had one pace.

Disagree with that, I'd say Coutts was excellent at dictating the pace of a game, if it needed upping Coutts would get the ball moving quicker, if the pace of the game needed slowing Coutts could do that as well. We also kept the ball much better with Coutts in the team, whereas with Norwood and his Hollywood passes we're turning possession over much quicker.

No brainer for me this one, drop Norwood and put Coutts back in for a decent run of games, Fleck and Duffy's games will improve at the same time. It''s getting the balance of the team right, I don't think it's happening with Norwood in midfield, results and performances over the last 2 months are proving this. We probably need Norwood to get a straight red to force Wilder's hand on this.

 

[FTPE]

Disagree with that, I'd say Coutts was excellent at dictating the pace of a game, if it needed upping Coutts would get the ball moving quicker, if the pace of the game needed slowing Coutts could do that as well. We also kept the ball much better with Coutts in the team, whereas with Norwood and his Hollywood passes we're turning possession over much quicker.

No brainer for me this one, drop Norwood and put Coutts back in for a decent run of games, Fleck and Duffy's games will improve at the same time. It''s getting the balance of the team right, I don't think it's happening with Norwood in midfield, results and performances over the last 2 months are proving this. We probably need Norwood to get a straight red to force Wilder's hand on this.

If he needs to get a straight red I take it you mean Wilder won't drop him? Meaning he thinks we are better with him in the team as well.
I'm not being a smart arse, I'm just saying that Chris agrees that Ollie is one of our better players and need a to start.
I don't understand how Fleck having a bad run is somehow Norwoods fault? Some of his passes and touches have been abysmal lately.
Believe me if we need to keep the ball Norwood can do that, I think he has the belief in his abilities to attempt "olliewood" (which seems to be a derogatory term now) type balls to open up defences.
Our possession type football seems to be grinding to a halt a little, the final ball appears to be coming in too late- if at all.
The best play (other than the goal, crossed in by Ollie) last week was a fast direct counter that ended with Clarke missing a huge headed chance. We CAN break, we have the midfielders to pick those killer passes, we just don't have the pace and or awareness up top to make it count.

If we want to go back to all out possesion we could bring back Coutts, but if we want to be able to mix it up a bit Fleck has to adapt and wilder needs to sign Defoe or Zohore.

 

[SUFC Handsworth]

If he needs to get a straight red I take it you mean Wilder won't drop him? Meaning he thinks we are better with him in the team as well.
I'm not being a smart arse, I'm just saying that Chris agrees that Ollie is one of our better players and need a to start.
I don't understand how Fleck having a bad run is somehow Norwoods fault? Some of his passes and touches have been abysmal lately.
Believe me if we need to keep the ball Norwood can do that, I think he has the belief in his abilities to attempt "olliewood" (which seems to be a derogatory term now) type balls to open up defences.
Our possession type football seems to be grinding to a halt a little, the final ball appears to be coming in too late- if at all.
The best play (other than the goal, crossed in by Ollie) last week was a fast direct counter that ended with Clarke missing a huge headed chance. We CAN break, we have the midfielders to pick those killer passes, we just don't have the pace and or awareness up top to make it count.

If we want to go back to all out possesion we could bring back Coutts, but if we want to be able to mix it up a bit Fleck has to adapt and wilder needs to sign Defoe or Zohore.

We were much better to watch when Coutts was playing and we were much more successful (top of the pile and playing great football as opposed to the current borderline play-offs and hit-and-miss performances), so in that case yes lets get Coutts back in and see if we can get back to last years level of performances and results.

Yes, I don't think Wilder will drop Norwood, unless he gets his hand forced by suspension or injury. Just because he's the manager doesn't mean he's always right, that's why managers end up getting the sack because they get things wrong. Do you remember the '86 World Cup when England had been abysmal and were staring down the barrel after the first two games, I'd said all along that we should be playing Hoddle and Reid in centre mid as the balance with Robson and Wilkins wasn't right. In the second game, the terrible 0-0 against Morrocco, Robson came off injured and Wilkins got sent off. It forced Bobby Robson's hand for the rest of the tournament, with Hoddle and Reid teaming up in centre mid, England didn't look back, thrashed Poland 3-0 and Paraguay 3-1 before getting robbed by the hand of a cheating bastard in the quarters. That's what's currently happening with United's midfield, we need Wilder's hand forcing with Norwood.

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

Very well explained but are we in danger of losing that killer pass then? Aren't we over playing in vital areas as it is?

If we get a inteligent and pacey runner up front in January, Ollie will look like Pirlo.

Yep. This!

The comment about the 70 yard Ollywood pass and Fleck et al not being able to catch up rings true for me.

Best solution is to have both in the side so we can play both patterns as and when required.

However, we need a mobile No 9 to make this work!

 

[CarlMcBlade]

Why have you dropped the best player of the 5 midfielders that we have to accommodate a player still working his way back.

I'd drop Fleck and Duffy before Norwood on current form

Duffy is/was my favourite player. I’ve always said if he plays well the team play well. But he is so frustrating like Fleck he doesn’t run at defenders enough, he doesn’t get into the box enough and he doesn’t shoot enough. Fleck and Duff both have the talent to unlock stubborn defences but they don’t always back themselves to do it.

 

[mancunianblade]