Contract problems.

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derfblade.3

derfblade.3

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Before i retired i worked for 50 years without a contract in the Sheffield steelworks.
Employment is employment in whatever form so why does sport work differently?
Why can't a football player be paid by a monthly salary without the employer having to be forced into giving him a set time to be at the club? Can't imagine my gaffer agreeing to giving me a binding contract for say 5 years at a set rate.
How many times do we see a club forced into paying a manager the remainder of his contract if he's crap at his job and sacked after 1 year into a 3 year contract?
Maybe i'm old school, but it pains me to see what greed there is in the game.
 

Football players aren't just employees performing a job though.

They can make a massive contribution into bringing millions of pounds into a company.
Also the players are treat as assets and the company is able to sell them making even more profit.

Also honouring a contract isn't greed. It's what all parties agreed.
If a manager is willing to continue doing the job then he shouldn't be punished if a club changes it's mind.

I'd say much of the problem is driver by fan expectation.
I'm old school and we always supported our team even when we were crap
but todays fans demand success and demand we over spend and take risks with the financial security of the club.
 
Because like you if you wanted could just give them a months notice and then move to someone else, its to protect both parties
 
Imagine if you were the best steelworker in the city, on your no contract contract

Foundry in another city gets wind of how good you are, and offer you double money
You accept, Sheffield can do nothing to stop you going, losing their best man
New company now have to let someone on the shop floor go to make room for you
They don't want someone to do to them what they have just done to Sheffield, so they ask you to sign a contract for 3 years

This gives you financial security for your relocation, and them security that you cant walk away.

After 12 months, another city hears about you, and offers you double wages again
You accept, but explain you have 2 years of a contract to go
They have to reach out to your employer, who asks for compensation (transfer fee) as they are losing their best man
Both firms agree on a number, you are released and sign for your new employer.

Re the Manager - as above but -
After 1 season your performance isnt good enough, but they gave you a 3 year contract to stop a bigger club poaching you
You are willing to honour your contract, they want a change
Why should you lose out on wages?
They have to pay you a fee or wages until your in a new job.

The opposite of this is Russell Martin
He does well at Swansea, so Southampton want him
He signed a contract, so cant just walk away from Swansea
The 2 clubs agree a compensation figure, which they feel is worthy of losing their manager for

Rightly or wrongly, a footballer is a commodity as well as a employee
Think of the Messi effect in Miami - he doesnt just do a job, he is a revenue stream critical to the business

Any commodity will cost, therefore a contract will be needed to protect it
 
steve26272 said:
The opposite of this is Russell Martin
He does well at Swansea, so Southampton want him
He signed a contract, so cant just walk away from Swansea
The 2 clubs agree a compensation figure, which they feel is worthy of losing their manager for
Click to expand...
Or Chris Wilder
Who was having a shocker of a year and treading a very fine line re gross misconduct by slagging the directors off
He resigned, twice, but only if they paid his full contract off

Madness, they should have accepted his resignation and made him take the club to court for the rest of his wages.
 
Using the analogy ..if your employer pays yiu too much and goes into administration as a consequence your at the back of a very long queue ..


If its a football club your at the front

The football creditors rule" requires football-related debts such as wages owed to players and staff, and transfer fees owed to other clubs to be paid first.

Mad
 
Trafford said:
Or Chris Wilder
Who was having a shocker of a year and treading a very fine line re gross misconduct by slagging the directors off
He resigned, twice, but only if they paid his full contract off

Madness, they should have accepted his resignation and made him take the club to court for the rest of his wages.
Click to expand...
thats a great shout

would have been interesting to see how a lawyer could argue publicly calling out your employer on national television isnt gross misconduct

I wish clubs would put a minimum expectation clause in the contract, so for Wilder it would be staying up - it doenst mean he would have been sacked, but it allows the club to relive him of duties without paying up whats left
But CW would then refuse that clause, board shit em sens as hes just got us up/finished 9th, cave in, remove it, and were back to square one
 
derfblade.3 said:
Before i retired i worked for 50 years without a contract in the Sheffield steelworks.
Employment is employment in whatever form so why does sport work differently?
Why can't a football player be paid by a monthly salary without the employer having to be forced into giving him a set time to be at the club? Can't imagine my gaffer agreeing to giving me a binding contract for say 5 years at a set rate.
How many times do we see a club forced into paying a manager the remainder of his contract if he's crap at his job and sacked after 1 year into a 3 year contract?
Maybe i'm old school, but it pains me to see what greed there is in the game.
Click to expand...
To be fair, would you go for a job, and sign a contract, that paid you £500pw for your first year and then it dropped to £280pw for your second year?
Thats our issue with players currently.
 
The Fox said:
The football creditors rule" requires football-related debts such as wages owed to players and staff, and transfer fees owed to other clubs to be paid first.

Mad
Click to expand...

It is mad, but.......

The Dolphin Killer would have had that lot in administration quick as a flash, if he thought he could have voided the contracts of Jordan Rhodes et al.

It's not perfect, but there would be even greater gambles on big wages, to get from the Championship to the Promised Land. If it then all goes tits up, sack off the players with no comeback and then go again.
 
BigBed said:
To be fair, would you go for a job, and sign a contract, that paid you £500pw for your first year and then it dropped to £280pw for your second year?
Thats our issue with players currently.
Click to expand...

Hmmm, not entirely accurate..............

Would you sign a contract for £500 pw for your first year? if your performance contributed to the business losing a contract, and therefore having reduced income, your wages would also go down
However, if your performance contributed to retaining said contract, you would remain on £500pw.

I think only in football would anyone seriously expect to receive the same wage should the efforts and them and their colleagues result in a reduction of income - how can we pay someone £500pw when our income has gone from £xxxxx to £xxxxx ?
 
steve26272 said:
Hmmm, not entirely accurate..............

Would you sign a contract for £500 pw for your first year? if your performance contributed to the business losing a contract, and therefore having reduced income, your wages would also go down
However, if your performance contributed to retaining said contract, you would remain on £500pw.

I think only in football would anyone seriously expect to receive the same wage should the efforts and them and their colleagues result in a reduction of income - how can we pay someone £500pw when our income has gone from £xxxxx to £xxxxx ?
Click to expand...
But, its not just your performances, and, its about a club selling its best players and not building for the challenge of staying in the prem.
And your basically saying exactly what I've said, hence the players won't sign, afterall, they're not all daft!
 
I should coco said:
It is mad, but.......

The Dolphin Killer would have had that lot in administration quick as a flash, if he thought he could have voided the contracts of Jordan Rhodes et al.

It's not perfect, but there would be even greater gambles on big wages, to get from the Championship to the Promised Land. If it then all goes tits up, sack off the players with no comeback and then go again.
Click to expand...
I agree completely, the point was that once you've agreed a contract even going bust and selling the ground wont get you out of paying millions ( potentially) to someone. It's a unique arrangement and only applies in football to my knowledge which is strange .
 
steve26272 said:
thats a great shout

would have been interesting to see how a lawyer could argue publicly calling out your employer on national television isnt gross misconduct

I wish clubs would put a minimum expectation clause in the contract, so for Wilder it would be staying up - it doenst mean he would have been sacked, but it allows the club to relive him of duties without paying up whats left
But CW would then refuse that clause, board shit em sens as hes just got us up/finished 9th, cave in, remove it, and were back to square one
Click to expand...
How would a minimum expectation clause work for Hecky this season. The club may require Hecky to avoid relegation, which he signs up to hypothetically, and then the club sells all his best players and gives him little chance of achieving his minimum expectation. Is he then sacked without compensation?
 
BigBed said:
But, its not just your performances, and, its about a club selling its best players and not building for the challenge of staying in the prem.
And your basically saying exactly what I've said, hence the players won't sign, afterall, they're not all daft!
Click to expand...
EH?!

We have sold our best players because they refused to sign a new contract - nowt wrong wi that
We are building for the challenge, unless you honestly think there will be no more thro the door before 31/8?

No, you omitted context that the contract only decreases should we go down, if we stay up the £500pw stays.
 
Trafford said:
Or Chris Wilder
Who was having a shocker of a year and treading a very fine line re gross misconduct by slagging the directors off
He resigned, twice, but only if they paid his full contract off
Click to expand...
Apart from no one knows how much was paid to Wilder but Abdullah (the trustworthy sort that he is) said that Wilder’s initial request was his full contract value of £4m and from that everyone has added their own spin on the situation.

There’s absolutely no way on Earth that Chris Wilder had his full contract paid up.
 

derfblade.3 said:
Before i retired i worked for 50 years without a contract in the Sheffield steelworks.
Employment is employment in whatever form so why does sport work differently?
Why can't a football player be paid by a monthly salary without the employer having to be forced into giving him a set time to be at the club? Can't imagine my gaffer agreeing to giving me a binding contract for say 5 years at a set rate.
How many times do we see a club forced into paying a manager the remainder of his contract if he's crap at his job and sacked after 1 year into a 3 year contract?
Maybe i'm old school, but it pains me to see what greed there is in the game.
Click to expand...
No transfer windows come and go when you like
 
steve26272 said:
EH?!

We have sold our best players because they refused to sign a new contract - nowt wrong wi that
We are building for the challenge, unless you honestly think there will be no more thro the door before 31/8?

No, you omitted context that the contract only decreases should we go down, if we stay up the £500pw stays.
Click to expand...
Wake up, theres very little hope of staying up, unless you know there will be an influx of prem ready players through the door before 31/8!
 
Bath Blade said:
How would a minimum expectation clause work for Hecky this season. The club may require Hecky to avoid relegation, which he signs up to hypothetically, and then the club sells all his best players and gives him little chance of achieving his minimum expectation. Is he then sacked without compensation?
Click to expand...

the board arent stupid tho, they want success

so to contrast, had Wilder stuck around, based on performance, his TV rants, transfer business then I think they should have let him go, with no payment
however Hecky this season, we go down, but with a team spirit and togetherness that shows hes the man to bring us back, relegated but carry on

guess its Farke at Norwich?

My point is I think its shit that poor managers get a massive pay off for been toss - think Lampard, Bruce, Hughes etc
 
BigBed said:
Wake up, theres very little hope of staying up, unless you know there will be an influx of prem ready players through the door before 31/8!
Click to expand...
you know what BB, you might be right

But I didnt expect us to finish 9th a couple of years ago
Or get to the FA Cup semi last year

Been a Blade is a hobby, a past time, something you do outside of the stress of work and family

Its a shame that whilst your obviously passionate about the Blades, it garners such a level of negativity

You should look forward to your past times mate
 
derfblade.3 said:
Before i retired i worked for 50 years without a contract in the Sheffield steelworks.
Click to expand...

Pedantry I know, but that you had nothing written down (which is what I assume you mean) does not mean you did not have a contract of employment
 
derekacorah said:
Apart from no one knows how much was paid to Wilder but Abdullah (the trustworthy sort that he is) said that Wilder’s initial request was his full contract value of £4m and from that everyone has added their own spin on the situation.

There’s absolutely no way on Earth that Chris Wilder had his full contract paid up.
Click to expand...
Fair point, I thought I had read that there was reference to it in the annual accounts but didn’t check them to verify that.
 
steve26272 said:
the board arent stupid tho, they want success

so to contrast, had Wilder stuck around, based on performance, his TV rants, transfer business then I think they should have let him go, with no payment
however Hecky this season, we go down, but with a team spirit and togetherness that shows hes the man to bring us back, relegated but carry on

guess its Farke at Norwich?

My point is I think its shit that poor managers get a massive pay off for been toss - think Lampard, Bruce, Hughes etc
Click to expand...

“the board arent stupid tho, they want success”

I beg to differ. They may not be stupid, but at the moment they want out with a profit and success is a bonus.
 
steve26272 said:
you know what BB, you might be right

But I didnt expect us to finish 9th a couple of years ago
Or get to the FA Cup semi last year

Been a Blade is a hobby, a past time, something you do outside of the stress of work and family

Its a shame that whilst your obviously passionate about the Blades, it garners such a level of negativity

You should look forward to your past times mate
Click to expand...
Its actually a "PASS TIME", not a "past time", but let's not get caught up in English literature.
Last year we did well, we finished 2nd in the championship, we got to a semi final in the FA Cup, and then we decided to sell our 2 best players, offer new contracts to our worst players, and not offer contracts to our subs.
So this season were in a much much worse place than last year, were about to go into the prem, we dont really have a starting 11, with 3 days to go, we also aren't looking like getting any prem ready players in anytime between now and then.
Believe me, id love to see the brightside of any of whats happening, apart from the fact we will probably have a team capable of staying in the championship come the end of next season, which leads me to think, after 44yrs following this club, damage limitation is pretty much all I can hope for, barring Hecky pulling off a miracle.

Forgive me for being a realist, but it doesn't look great from my seat.
 
BigBed said:
To be fair, would you go for a job, and sign a contract, that paid you £500pw for your first year and then it dropped to £280pw for your second year?
Thats our issue with players currently.
Click to expand...
It’s also quite normal for clubs in our position. And being left with £20,000 per week isn’t really comparable with being left with £280 per week, however much they’d rather not,
 
BigBed said:
Its actually a "PASS TIME", not a "past time", but let's not get caught up in English literature.
Last year we did well, we finished 2nd in the championship, we got to a semi final in the FA Cup, and then we decided to sell our 2 best players, offer new contracts to our worst players, and not offer contracts to our subs.
So this season were in a much much worse place than last year, were about to go into the prem, we dont really have a starting 11, with 3 days to go, we also aren't looking like getting any prem ready players in anytime between now and then.
Believe me, id love to see the brightside of any of whats happening, apart from the fact we will probably have a team capable of staying in the championship come the end of next season, which leads me to think, after 44yrs following this club, damage limitation is pretty much all I can hope for, barring Hecky pulling off a miracle.

Forgive me for being a realist, but it doesn't look great from my seat.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your grammar lesson, appreciated - not sure how I’ve got thro the last 51 years😂

You know what, I honestly don’t disagree with you, they are after all facts

I just think it’s how you accept it

Personally I like to see the positive side, as I find negativity isn’t an enjoyable place to be

*We’re in the prem
*We’re up for sale, hopefully get a buyer with coin
*We have a great management team
*Wolves & Everton are screwed
*Luton and several others inc Bournemouth, Forest, Burnley etc will also be down there
*we have between £30-40m from the sale of 2 players I thought would leave for free
*We have money to spend and over 3 weeks to use it
*were a league above the pigs
*no matter how shit it is here, it’ll be better than at S6

this time last year Ndaiye wasn’t capable of lasting 90mins, and we had no idea just how good Anel, McAtee and Doyle would be

Now, if no one else comes thro the door by 31/8 I’ll join you on the top of the bridge, but till then I’m keeping the faith
 
derfblade.3 said:
Before i retired i worked for 50 years without a contract in the Sheffield steelworks.
Employment is employment in whatever form so why does sport work differently?
Why can't a football player be paid by a monthly salary without the employer having to be forced into giving him a set time to be at the club? Can't imagine my gaffer agreeing to giving me a binding contract for say 5 years at a set rate.
How many times do we see a club forced into paying a manager the remainder of his contract if he's crap at his job and sacked after 1 year into a 3 year contract?
Maybe i'm old school, but it pains me to see what greed there is in the game.
Click to expand...
It's called Fixed Term Contracts. There is a clause that allows for either party to terminate early on payment of a pre-determimed amount.

The Fixed Term Contract Regulations govern a lot of it. If for instance, after 4 years a FTC becomes permanent so there is clause that basically agrees to pay what they would receive at an employment tribunal should they make a claim.

Football contracts make very interesting reading.
 

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