Compare SUFC with Watford and Charlton

[Linz]

This is an interesting one I've been asked with regards to the feedback from the fans forum and as it was something I hadn't seen been mentioned, I thought I'd ask.

When we came down from the Premiership in 2007, we came down with Watford and Charlton.

In the time since, Watford have finished:

2008: 6th (Lost to Hull in Play-Offs)
2009: 13th
2010: Currently placed 19th

Charlton meanwhile have finished:

2008: 11th
2009: 24th (relegated to League One)
2010: Currently placed 5th

We have finished:

2008: 9th
2009: 3rd (Lost to Burnley in Play-Off Final)
2010: Currently placed 9th

So that's the comparison of league positions done for you, but what about the rest?

What about the leadership of the two teams (who both have different managers from the ones who took the teams down)?

What about the financial situation at the clubs? How do you perceive they are doing in relation to us?

 

[lenners]

I think you should suggest it as a season ticket promotion Linz. Look how well we're doing compared to Watford and Charlton.

 

[Linz]

I think you should suggest it as a season ticket promotion Linz. Look how well we're doing compared to Watford and Charlton.

The question didn't come from the club and it is a genuine one.

One you haven't really answered...

 

[lenners]

The question didn't come from the club and it is a genuine one.

One you haven't really answered...

I'm afraid it felt like a question from the club Linz.
It's pointless. It shouldn't matter what anyone else is doing - what matters is whether we are doing as well as we possibly can. And we aren't anywhere near that.
It worries me that many season-ticket holders of many years standing are not going to renew.
And it's down to them seeing no soul in the club at the moment, no drive, no passion, no ambition. United just represent an absence at the moment, a club that's gone missing.

 

[judge]

I'm afraid it felt like a question from the club Linz.
It's pointless. It shouldn't matter what anyone else is doing - what matters is whether we are doing as well as we possibly can. And we aren't anywhere near that.
It worries me that many season-ticket holders of many years standing are not going to renew.
And it's down to them seeing no soul in the club at the moment, no drive, no passion, no ambition. United just represent an absence at the moment, a club that's gone missing.

are you for real ?

 

[lenners]

are you for real ?

I take it you must be one of the very few fans who apparently doesn't know a season-ticket holder who's had enough.

 

[judge]

well living in liverpool i know plenty ,dont know any blades that feel that way though

 

[Vancouver]

@Linz - I wouldn't bother waiting for Len to actually answer a question; you could be waiting for quite some time, it's not his style. Like Beighton with less spelling mistakes.

 

[Foxy]

It's pointless. It shouldn't matter what anyone else is doing

Is that why you very recently compared us with Sheffield Wednesday in order to critisise the club?

Comparing us with the teams we came down with is as valid as comparing us with Sheffield Wednesday.

 

[Jostein Flo]

I'm afraid it felt like a question from the club Linz.
It's pointless. It shouldn't matter what anyone else is doing - what matters is whether we are doing as well as we possibly can. And we aren't anywhere near that.
It worries me that many season-ticket holders of many years standing are not going to renew.
And it's down to them seeing no soul in the club at the moment, no drive, no passion, no ambition. United just represent an absence at the moment, a club that's gone missing.

An open question to Len or anyone who feels like answering it... What would make you feel that the club was showing ambition? Throwing around money that we can't afford? Sacking Blackwell when there are very few proven mangers around to replace him with (even fewer that we could actually afford)? McCabe selling up?

These seem to be the three main bones of contention and I don't see how jepardising the club's future or replacing the current manager/owner for an unknown quantity is a show of ambition.

Sorry if it's going a bit off topic...

 

[raul]

Have you an attendance comparison over the same period Linz?

 

[Highbury_Blade]

I'm very glad we haven't gone the way of norwich & charlton, and if you take the teams that currently have parachute payments out of the equation, we are doing the best out of any team that has come down from the premier league in recent season, which is a testament to the prudency of the owner.

What doesn't change is the disillusionment a few/many (take your pick) with the style of play the club is currently playing. If Blackwell had reached the playoffs with this style then you could say that the style works, but he hasn't. Who would accept a similar finishing position to this next year if the style switched to lovely flowing football? (not a rhetorical question btw)

 

[axel smeets]

There are plenty of plusses in how we have performed compared to Watford and Charlton since 2007. Also in 1994 when we were relegated from the prem Swindon went straight through to Division two and Oldham were relegated there in 1997! So we certainly fared better there and this time around, I just wish we could be a little bit more like WBA. I know many people will say they have been relegated from the premiership 3 times in 8 years but they have also been promoted 4 times and lost the play - off final in 2007. They are the example of how to do it over the past decade.
Watford had a manager who was overconfident and arrogant and could not change his playing style. Their form in the calendar year 2008 was appalling. Charlton in summer 2007 I thought were the ones out of the three of us that were going to do the best. They signed players like Iwelumo on free transfers or small fee's and seemed to have reduced their budget. However, it would be proved in time that they had not assembled a good squad at all, and ended up as the 08/09 peterborough.
United will have a vastly reduced wage budget next season and smaller crowds, but that doesn't necessarily have to push us down the league. Don't tell me that palace/owls, watford, PNE, Coventry, Derby, Barnsley are going to be spending more than us or that they have better propects. Hull could be on -10, so could Cardiff and Pompey could be deducted 20-30 I reckon. If Forest don't go up they'll be ok, so will Leicester and Swansea should be fine. Blackpool will struggle to replicate what they have done this year, so I see us around the same placing as this year.

 

[lenners]

Is that why you very recently compared us with Sheffield Wednesday in order to critisise the club?

Comparing us with the teams we came down with is as valid as comparing us with Sheffield Wednesday.

A comparison with Sheffield Wednesday is much more valid as it directly effects the morale of our club and has a potential commercial impact.
The performance of Charlton and Watford does not.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

Sacking Blackwell when there are very few proven mangers around to replace him with (even fewer that we could actually afford)?

You could argue that there are plenty of managers available that certainly don't have large degrees of failure attached to them - so in that respect I'd say there are plenty of options.

I don't buy the Watford/Charlton comparison Linz. We are undeniably in a better position than both of them - both could have quite easily been playing themselves next year in League 1. But we weren't comparable sides at relegation. Watford were appalling in the Premiership, and frankly appear all over the place off the pitch. Charlton, as a Premiership club of many years, will have felt the shock of relegation far more than us there merely a year - financially, and mentally. We supposedly had a solid off the field set-up, and had a decent team even after the inevitable transfers out.

 

[bladesman1889]

A comparison with Sheffield Wednesday is much more valid as it directly effects the morale of our club and has a potential commercial impact.
The performance of Charlton and Watford does not.

Rubbish, what a cop out answer.

You could argue that there are plenty of managers available that certainly don't have large degrees of failure attached to them - so in that respect I'd say there are plenty of options.

Such as?

 

[norfolkblade]

It almost seems like some people would rather we spent money we don't have to chase ambition, then when it all goes tits up like it has for so many other clubs, feel sorry for themselves! Can't have it all ways unfortunately, to be honest I can't say I'm too unhappy with the state of affairs, look at Palace for example, they could be completely out of existence next month, fook that!

 

[lenners]

Rubbish, what a cop out answer.



Such as?

Sorry, a comparison with Watford and Charlton matters more than a comparison with our closest and most commercially important rivals?
Fuck me, best watch whoever Watford are playing on Sunday.
And if Wednesday go past us next season, woe betide anyone who finds that a problem - especially if we're still five points better off than Watford.

 

[bladesman1889]

Sorry, a comparison with Watford and Charlton matters more than a comparison with our closest and most commercially important rivals?
Fuck me, best watch whoever Watford are playing on Sunday.
And if Wednesday go past us next season, woe betide anyone who finds that a problem - especially if we're still five points better off than Watford.

Matters no more or no less. We could be compared with all teams with good reason. To say Wednesday are the only team we can be compared with is absolutely ridiculous.

I'm sure Wednesday will surpass us next season, like they/you've been saying since 2001...

 

[bladesman1889]

It almost seems like some people would rather we spent money we don't have to chase ambition, then when it all goes tits up like it has for so many other clubs, feel sorry for themselves! Can't have it all ways unfortunately, to be honest I can't say I'm too unhappy with the state of affairs, look at Palace for example, they could be completely out of existence next month, fook that!

Oh no, let's spend 20m in the summer, spend a season in the prem and go bust. That would be brilliant, Hull have such an ambitious chairman.

 

[norfolkblade]

Oh no, let's spend 20m in the summer, spend a season in the prem and go bust. That would be brilliant, Hull have such an ambitious chairman.

my point exactly, glad someone see's where i'm coming from!

 

[lenners]

Matters no more or no less. We could be compared with all teams with good reason. To say Wednesday are the only team we can be compared with is absolutely ridiculous.

I'm sure Wednesday will surpass us next season, like they/you've been saying since 2001...

Jeez, what has happened to schooling?
Where did I or anyone else say that Wednesday are the only team we can be compared with?
Commercially, they're the only one that matters to us but we can compare ourselves to anyone else we like. Like you say, take your pic.

 

[Chingo]

How about comparing us to Newcastle and WBA or clubs that have just come up from League one ... ie Blackpool , Swansea and Leicester ?

 

[bladesman1889]

Jeez, what has happened to schooling?
Where did I or anyone else say that Wednesday are the only team we can be compared with?
Commercially, they're the only one that matters to us but we can compare ourselves to anyone else we like. Like you say, take your pic.

Comercially? Why? They're not in a similar position to us on or off the pitch and haven't been for a long time. But because they affect the morale of our club (???) and have a commercial impact on us (????) they're the (sorry) most valid comparison?

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

How about watching a few games as interesting as the Palace v WBA game.

That would be a good starting point. The football served up during the last two seasons has generally has been shit to watch.

And yes I'm fed up and not re-newing.

 

[lenners]

Oh no, let's spend 20m in the summer, spend a season in the prem and go bust. That would be brilliant, Hull have such an ambitious chairman.

They spent two seasons in the Prem, which is one more than SUFC have managed for the last 16 years.
They did it with a complete muppet as chairman and I certainly wouldn't want his like here.
But the facts are we have got ourselves into £50m of debt to get where we are and that is appalling management - whatever empty claims are made by Kev and Trev.

 

[bladesman1889]

How about watching a few games as interesting as the Palace v WBA game.

That would be a good starting point. The football served up during the last two seasons has generally has been shit to watch.

And yes I'm fed up and not re-newing.

so you'd prefer to be in palace's situation than ours? and don't say WBA because they have far more resources than we do.

 

[lenners]

Comercially? Why? They're not in a similar position to us on or off the pitch and haven't been for a long time. But because they affect the morale of our club (???) and have a commercial impact on us (????) they're the (sorry) most valid comparison?

Jeez, I can't believe anyone cannot grasp that commercially SWFC's performance matters to us.

 

[bladesman1889]

They spent two seasons in the Prem, which is one more than SUFC have managed for the last 16 years.
They did it with a complete muppet as chairman and I certainly wouldn't want his like here.
But the facts are we have got ourselves into £50m of debt to get where we are and that is appalling management - whatever empty claims are made by Kev and Trev.

Two seasons with around 15-20 wins in the whole time, boardroom turmoil, joke chairmen, mounds of debt, overpaid players, fans expectations going through the roof, threats of administration....but sure it was all worth it for 2 crap seasons in the PL?

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

It almost seems like some people would rather we spent money we don't have to chase ambition, then when it all goes tits up like it has for so many other clubs, feel sorry for themselves! Can't have it all ways unfortunately, to be honest I can't say I'm too unhappy with the state of affairs, look at Palace for example, they could be completely out of existence next month, fook that!

Seems to me that some one has lead us to believe that he was failing miserably due to his budget having been cut and his hands were tied behind his back.

Truth was he was pissing £14M up against the wall.

McC has backed him and backed him well. Sorry McC I've had quite a few pops at you which have turned out to be unjustified.

Blackie, I've tried to defend you as I thought you were being held back and stifled.

Turns out Blackie you are just shit at your job.