CLOUGH THE BUILDER

[finlaytheblade]

If we dont get promotion this season(i think we have a great chance but not nailed on) should cloughs job be on the line?
in my opinion definately NOT.
clough is a team and club builder and does things his way like his dad(what a manager) he im sure when he was offered the job will have made that the bottom line.Go back to his previouse jobs ,slowly built burton to the point that when he left
for a bigger club (derby)they were on the verge of promotion to the football league with a stable platform to move forward.
Took on a derby team that was heading for division one with a budget that was out of control ,.brought the wage bill down to manageable levels and built slowly from there.to a point where a push for promotion was on.He lost his job mcclaren took over a good young team and with a bit of tinkering and a couple of signings just missed out on promotion
to QPR an inferior team in my opinion.This i think still annoys nigel as he had built the squad and before he could complete the job he was sacked.
Rome was,nt built in a day this is how he works::its based on youth where possible and these two young lads from
non-league are part of his team building they may not be good enough but it gives you an insight into the way he works.
he knows he will not get forever to get things right(minimum finish play offs) the club and he im sure would want play offs minimum but failure should,nt bring the sack. he is growing the player strength at all levels of the club and that is not acheaved overnight there will be set backs along the way we may be having one right now but the club and us fans
have to stay focused on what cloughy and his staff are doing.
To finish, in my opinion we have to stay with him,it may take a bit longer than the club and us fans want but lets do it with the strength to keep moving forward.

 

[blader]

I can't agree whilst we're in league 1. Other clubs recently promoted from this division just go out in summer and buy the quality required to win promotion. There is no 'building' job required in this division, that's in the league above when you're on a non-competitive budget. We keep getting told to be patient, and my patience has worn out. No excuse for not going up this season, but I'm sure they'll find one!

 

[DSB-91]

I would not want Clough sacked if we don't go up unless it goes spectacularly wrong this season. However, I would argue, judging from the performances so far, he has not improved the strength of the team from last year and that the building he did over summer has had mixed results at best.

Additionally, I'm not sure how much building the team needs. The squad is good and when we do attack games we usually get a goal. The problem more seems to be that we start so tentatively and with so little energy and so little attacking intent that we are only left with the second half to get something from games.

 

[blade too long]

The fact is Clough I believe knows the calibre of player we need, In defence of him I honestly believe there migh not be that calibre of player available on the market, its possible that we might not be able to get as good as we need, sad to say , but we can still be there or thereabouts if we can tweek the squad and add 15% better whereas in recent years we might have been able to get players to make us 30% better

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

I can't agree whilst we're in league 1. Other clubs recently promoted from this division just go out in summer and buy the quality required to win promotion. There is no 'building' job required in this division, that's in the league above when you're on a non-competitive budget. We keep getting told to be patient, and my patience has worn out. No excuse for not going up this season, but I'm sure they'll find one!

Agree but the shite should be fired at the board, not Clough.

His tactics may puzzle but in division 2 and even 1 if we were to ever get there they wouldn't be out of place.

It's the fans expectations that would change. Getting a point in division 1 at home is seen as a plus.
It can't ever be seen as a plus in division 3.

 

[finlaytheblade]

I can't agree whilst we're in league 1. Other clubs recently promoted from this division just go out in summer and buy the quality required to win promotion. There is no 'building' job required in this division, that's in the league above when you're on a non-competitive budget. We keep getting told to be patient, and my patience has worn out. No excuse for not going up this season, but I'm sure they'll find one!

i did say that clough will do it his way and made that clear to the board on accepting the job in my opinion!
he obviously will not turn down money which the club gives him for team strengthening but has his idea,s on how to spend it.
he has not broke the bank so far with his signings and in my opinion will strengthen the first eleven in the window ,not squad players but players who will improve the first eleven

 

[Bladesway]

Can he fix it, yes he can.

 

[Toronto Blade]

He should concentrate on finding 11 players who can play a whole game instead of just the second half.

 

[JohnDenver]

No manager is immune to bad results. I expected us to challenge for the top two this season and I still expect us to do so.

So if we fail to go up, questions will rightly be asked, but I'm not a fan of swapping managers, especially in the manner we did with Wilson and Blackwell. If we'd kept our best players from last season we'd be top of the league now, I've no doubt whatsoever. Fans have the right to be impatient with the club, but each manager deserves a chance to build his own team. So I'd give every manager two years minimum, barring horrific performance.

 

[yorkshirecoast]

Clough needs to change his tactics and team selections - and quick.

The football is mind numbingly boring and negative. We don't attack in any numbers until we go behind. There is no tempo. We play 5 sideways passes when one would do. There is litlle passion or pride from the players.And results so far suggest it will be play offs at best. That isn't good enough in League 1.

I'd give him until the end of the season. If we don't go up - or if there isn't a massive improvement in performances - I think we will have to make a change.

Just look at Clough's ratings on here for the last 3 home league games.....all less than 4 out of 10. Enough said.

 

[Blade59]

As far as I and I think most supporters are concerned the board, management and players will be judged on one thing and one thing only, obtaining promotion out of this league. Anything less than this will be complete and utter failure. There will be no hard luck stories. if only this that or the other or with a couple of decent signings we'll storm the league next season, the club collectively will have failed on a massive scale. I fear for many supporters that a 5th season at his level will be one false dawn to far and that will be it until the club actually delivers something through action rather than hollow words and promises.

The objective of promotion is still achievable but the signs from the last 3 home matches suggest that we are well of course and the gap is about to widen. The management and board need to take urgent action to get back on track (O'grady is a step in the right direction but more is needed particularly from a tactics perspective) whilst we still have time on our side.

As far as building goes this needs to be done on solid ground which is the Championship not the third division.

 

[robbiez666]

I think the issues I have with him in terms of being a builder are:

As it stands, his management this season has been

1. He's not bringing young players through

2. Instead he's buying a lot of players, many of which are bang average

3. There seems no plan.

4. The tactics and team selections are beyond puzzling. As are the negative tactics.

If he continues on this route he really has to take us up or he can go for me. If he changes, and we go for it and look like a team playing well and improving, but just miss out then another season would be fine with me.

As is stands, his management of the team has been below average in the poorest league we've played in for a long long time.

 

[Cyprus Blade]

I'm sure club accountants like NC as he gets the wage bill down, but he, and his scout brother, have identified and bought midfielders who are either injury prone or distinctly average to the point we are still having to rely on Doyle (not exactly a superstar whose limitations have been discussed endlessly) and Baxter (inconsistent and unable to last a full game) - and I still doubt we have a midfield pairing strong enough to enable us to play 2 strikers. Couple that with no cover at RB , no replacement for HM that turned up - unless you count Basham, the numerous cock-ups and the grief in getting a striker worth having in the loan and transfer windows. Add to that the farcical nature of the Porter and Butler acquisitions and you would have to say that if Clough is a builder he should find a better supplier or his structures will be jerry-built and make-do. He also needs to either find an architect to design his structures or go back to the drawing board as his look about as attractive and unique as a utilitarian housing block in the old soviet union - all the ruddy same, no variation, dull, boring and functional.

Ok I am probably being over-harsh on the criticism but to rave about Clough being "the builder" is really over-egging the pudding. There's loyalty and then there is loyalty beyond reason. Let's take NC off the pedastol - he is about as good as we will get at this level but, I'm sorry, he is not the manager his father was.

 

[Bladesway]

I think the issues I have with him in terms of being a builder are:

As it stands, his management this season has been

1. He's not bringing young players through

I find this puzzling. I would suggest the squad average age is about as young as I can remember it. Murphy, McNulty, Wallace, Alcock, Basham, Flynn, Scougall, Baxter, Reed, and McGahey all the right side of 30 and many are early/mid 20's. Howard is only 28, which for a keeper isn't old. There is a mix of experience in the squad also. I would say age wise we are about as well balanced as I can remember.

 

[Woodwardfan]

On another thread a derby fan gave us his opinion when

I think the issues I have with him in terms of being a builder are:

As it stands, his management this season has been

1. He's not bringing young players through

2. Instead he's buying a lot of players, many of which are bang average

3. There seems no plan.

4. The tactics and team selections are beyond puzzling. As are the negative tactics.

If he continues on this route he really has to take us up or he can go for me. If he changes, and we go for it and look like a team playing well and improving, but just miss out then another season would be fine with me.

As is stands, his management of the team has been below average in the poorest league we've played in for a long long time.

Recently I re-read the OP from the Derby fan written October 2013 ( thread:" Nigel Clough, opinions from a Derby fan") and in it he mentions his frustration that Clough and his brother only seemed to search for players in the lower leagues and in Scotland. He also said he thought scouting was "amateurish" though he thought that signings were pretty good overall.

I must say that strikes a chord and it bothers me and my recent look at the signings MKD made this year ( thread: "Somethings happening at MKD"), which were invariably players with a certain "pedigree" developed in a big club environment,, made me aware of the difference in approaches. All season I have yearned for a bright young loan striker from the Prem, or indeed another Coady type.

OK this is League 1 and we have a restricted budget, but more than MKD surely. What worries me the most isn't here and now, it's whether Clough will widen his net when we go up, apparently he didn't when he was up there with Derby.

 

[Worksop II]

OK this is League 1 and we have a restricted budget

Noooo - we have a Game Changing Budget

 

[Darthblade]

I would not want Clough sacked if we don't go up unless it goes spectacularly wrong this season. However, I would argue, judging from the performances so far, he has not improved the strength of the team from last year and that the building he did over summer has had mixed results at best.

Additionally, I'm not sure how much building the team needs. The squad is good and when we do attack games we usually get a goal. The problem more seems to be that we start so tentatively and with so little energy and so little attacking intent that we are only left with the second half to get something from games.

I think this squad needs major surgery, AGAIN, as there are some decent players, some dead wood and very few who would be "number one on the team sheet".
We are just not strong enough, not pacey enough and certainly not dangerous enough in front of goal. I would suggest we need the following to compete for the playoffs this year:
RB, CH, CM, CF x2
I hope I'm wrong, but not seen anything to suggest promotion so far.
UTB & FTP

 

[bladeinspaceandtime]

Noooo - we have a Game Changing Budget

It took McCabe donkeys years to find someone willing to invest in the club, then he finds someone who appears to have a wallet tighter than a gnat's chuff.

 

[Woodwardfan]

I think this squad needs major surgery, AGAIN, as there are some decent players, some dead wood and very few who would be "number one on the team sheet".
We are just not strong enough, not pacey enough and certainly not dangerous enough in front of goal. I would suggest we need the following to compete for the playoffs this year:
RB, CH, CM, CF x2
I hope I'm wrong, but not seen anything to suggest promotion so far.
UTB & FTP

We certainly need some pace. we only have Murphy and ...............oh dear!

 

[Treeton Blade]

If we dont get promotion this season(i think we have a great chance but not nailed on) should cloughs job be on the line?
in my opinion definately NOT.
clough is a team and club builder and does things his way like his dad(what a manager) he im sure when he was offered the job will have made that the bottom line.Go back to his previouse jobs ,slowly built burton to the point that when he left
for a bigger club (derby)they were on the verge of promotion to the football league with a stable platform to move forward.
Took on a derby team that was heading for division one with a budget that was out of control ,.brought the wage bill down to manageable levels and built slowly from there.to a point where a push for promotion was on.He lost his job mcclaren took over a good young team and with a bit of tinkering and a couple of signings just missed out on promotion
to QPR an inferior team in my opinion.This i think still annoys nigel as he had built the squad and before he could complete the job he was sacked.
Rome was,nt built in a day this is how he works::its based on youth where possible and these two young lads from
non-league are part of his team building they may not be good enough but it gives you an insight into the way he works.
he knows he will not get forever to get things right(minimum finish play offs) the club and he im sure would want play offs minimum but failure should,nt bring the sack. he is growing the player strength at all levels of the club and that is not acheaved overnight there will be set backs along the way we may be having one right now but the club and us fans
have to stay focused on what cloughy and his staff are doing.
To finish, in my opinion we have to stay with him,it may take a bit longer than the club and us fans want but lets do it with the strength to keep moving forward.

Finlay, you are far too sensible for a fan`s forum, great post mate.

 

[robbiez666]

I find this puzzling. I would suggest the squad average age is about as young as I can remember it. Murphy, McNulty, Wallace, Alcock, Basham, Flynn, Scougall, Baxter, Reed, and McGahey all the right side of 30 and many are early/mid 20's. Howard is only 28, which for a keeper isn't old. There is a mix of experience in the squad also. I would say age wise we are about as well balanced as I can remember.

I was about to agree with you in terms of age but then thought about how many of those are likely to start games. Murphy, Alcock & Scougs. I'd argue that it looked a much better mix earlier on in the season in terms of age. He seems to have retreated to a take no risks stance where he relies more on journeymen. Which is frustrating when we're not playing well. I'd rather Reed played regularly. He's not going to improve with 10-20 minutes here and there.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Alcock is 26 years old, not that young.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Bladesway is right. Just calculated the average age of the first team squad and it is 26 years.

 

[Cyprus Blade]

Well the builder has just stood back from his work and is pleased with it - the signing of O'Grady appears to be it for forward options

“Bringing him in means we are happy with the attacking options we’ve got here now. All of the lads offer something a little bit different which gives us flexibility.” NC in today's Stir.

So now the proof of the pudding will be in the eating.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Average age of Clough's signings: 27.7 years.

 

[Pinchy]

You see, if you start from a false premise you can argue any old tosh.

NC doesn't bring youngsters through? Ask any number of kids at Derby.

I'd rather Reed played regularly. He's not going to improve with 10-20 minutes here and there.

First, we're here to win games, not improve Reed.

Second, he's only just 17. He's not ready to play every game

Third, He gets frequent starts. How many times has he played 10-20 minutes? Very few, I suggest.