CJ Hamilton - One that got away?

[Sothall_Blade]

https://www.chad.co.uk/sport/footba...est-bromwich-albion-also-interested-1-9518199

"Mansfield Town are reported to have turned down an offer of £750,000 from Championship club Preston North End for CJ Hamilton. The exciting winger, who has excelled in a variety of positions this season, was expected to be the subject of plenty of attention in the January transfer window and, along with Preston, is also said to be interesting West Bromwich Albion. The 23-year-old is widely tipped to become Stags’ first £1 million player with manager David Flitcroft doing an impressive job in finally harnessing the talents of this lighting-quick player..ETC"

 

[mattbianco1]

Didn't realise that was him. Having a good season. Plays anywhere down the right and can fill in upfront too

 

[Fulwood Blade]

This happens in football - Chris Waddle came into football late after making sausages before signing at 19/20 yoa for Newcastle.

Some just develop later than others.

UTB

 

[Redhead]

I wouldn’t say one that got away, just another player that was not ready at 20 years old that we released.

This is a problem we have compared to other clubs. Other clubs have a squad of players aged 19,20,21 that are maybe still not ready for the first team but need time to develop and go out on loan for a couple of seasons.

If you look at the premier league and championship clubs we are certainly behind on this. Our 23s is made up of kids.

I guess it all boils down to how much money the club want to invest in this area.

 

[Boxer Blade]

This happens in football - Chris Waddle came into football late after making sausages before signing at 19/20 yoa for Newcastle.

Some just develop later than others.

UTB

Pork sausages??? well somebody was going to say it

 

[Kozzy_is_my_Dad]

To be fair, it's not often that we miss one is it?

 

[wizadry]

He had pace, what the flying fuck would we want that for anyway?

 

[derfblade.3]

He had pace, what the flying fuck would we want that for anyway?

We got Billy Sharp Billy Sharp, we've got Billy Sharp.....

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

I'll stand to be corrected. But, I feel we have a slightly different strategy with our more senior Academy players than we did when CJ was released. We seem more prepared to send players out on loan, juggle what level they're loaned to, and keep them out on loan longer. We currently have a strong Academy XI out on loans.
Dewhurst, Bennett, Graham, Semple, Heneghan, Norrington-Davies, Slater, Gilmour, Hallam, Smith, Parkhouse. I can't recall us ever having so many "senior" Academy prospects out at the same time. With seemingly no pressure to offload them. Obviously, there will be some big & difficult decisions at season end. When CJ & Ben Whiteman left, it felt a bit like - loan, did OK, offload. Feels different & better now. Give them time..... Long loans at lower league clubs is a good strategy imho

 

[PittsburghBlade]

Doesn't have the quality needed at champ level, not for a team looking to get promoted.

 

[Redhead]

I'll stand to be corrected. But, I feel we have a slightly different strategy with our more senior Academy players than we did when CJ was released. We seem more prepared to send players out on loan, juggle what level they're loaned to, and keep them out on loan longer. We currently have a strong Academy XI out on loans.
Dewhurst, Bennett, Graham, Semple, Heneghan, Norrington-Davies, Slater, Gilmour, Hallam, Smith, Parkhouse. I can't recall us ever having so many "senior" Academy prospects out at the same time. With seemingly no pressure to offload them. Obviously, there will be some big & difficult decisions at season end. When CJ & Ben Whiteman left, it felt a bit like - loan, did OK, offload. Feels different & better now. Give them time..... Long loans at lower league clubs is a good strategy imho

In the main these lads are 19/20 years old. Still very young in terms of first team football.

The truth in the pudding will be how many of these players stay in the Summer even if not ready for the first team.

We have always sent players on loan to Greasborough, Bradford Park Avenue, etc etc it’s just that this years crop are better and have been loaned to league clubs.

 

[Balham]

I'll stand to be corrected. But, I feel we have a slightly different strategy with our more senior Academy players than we did when CJ was released. We seem more prepared to send players out on loan, juggle what level they're loaned to, and keep them out on loan longer. We currently have a strong Academy XI out on loans.
Dewhurst, Bennett, Graham, Semple, Heneghan, Norrington-Davies, Slater, Gilmour, Hallam, Smith, Parkhouse. I can't recall us ever having so many "senior" Academy prospects out at the same time. With seemingly no pressure to offload them. Obviously, there will be some big & difficult decisions at season end. When CJ & Ben Whiteman left, it felt a bit like - loan, did OK, offload. Feels different & better now. Give them time..... Long loans at lower league clubs is a good strategy imho

Isn't that a function of an increased turnover too? Previously, almost every bucket would have been emptied to sign another over-the-hill higher level footballer but now there seems to be a more strategic approach. Maybe getting eight figures for Brooks and seven for Calvert-Lewin (I accept that both of them were highly regarded at Shirecliffe) has changed a few minds about the relative benefits of keeping the lads on contract at United but on loan even if we end up covering part (or all) of the wages.

Having a load of senior pros signed recently out on loan probably sharped a few minds too - would we have been that much worse off had we trusted Slater and Gilmour over Evans and particularly Leonard in the second half of last season?

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Isn't that a function of an increased turnover too? Previously, almost every bucket would have been emptied to sign another over-the-hill higher level footballer but now there seems to be a more strategic approach. Maybe getting eight figures for Brooks and seven for Calvert-Lewin (I accept that both of them were highly regarded at Shirecliffe) has changed a few minds about the relative benefits of keeping the lads on contract at United but on loan even if we end up covering part (or all) of the wages.

Having a load of senior pros signed recently out on loan probably sharped a few minds too - would we have been that much worse off had we trusted Slater and Gilmour over Evans and particularly Leonard in the second half of last season?

I have described us elsewhere as an Academy Blocking Club. Of course, of course, of course, the Academy Kids have to be good enough for the first team squad. That is the only criteria for getting picked. But, we have been a club who have signed players in Transfer Windows who have got absolutely nowhere. No better than what we've already got in the first team, indeed demonstrably worse. Those Leonards, Holmes, Carruthers, Thomas's have just pushed Academy Kids further down the queue. I know Wilder has found some gems. I know the Academy Kids are not up to it yet. But, at times, there has been a long queue of no hopers blocking in front of them. And, I think you are bang on. There is now a bit more money to keep Academy players ticking over, rather than just offloading them asap

 

[Topplayersleave]

There isn't enough room to accommodate every player that comes out of all the academies in the country, they have to move on so that they can play football

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

There isn't enough room to accommodate every player that comes out of all the academies in the country, they have to move on so that they can play football

You're right. Leonard, Holmes, Carruthers & Thomas are all Academy products

 

[Chali 2na]

Glad to hear one of our academy products is doing well, I wish him well.

 

[Silent Blade]

I have described us elsewhere as an Academy Blocking Club. Of course, of course, of course, the Academy Kids have to be good enough for the first team squad. That is the only criteria for getting picked. But, we have been a club who have signed players in Transfer Windows who have got absolutely nowhere. No better than what we've already got in the first team, indeed demonstrably worse. Those Leonards, Holmes, Carruthers, Thomas's have just pushed Academy Kids further down the queue. I know Wilder has found some gems. I know the Academy Kids are not up to it yet. But, at times, there has been a long queue of no hopers blocking in front of them. And, I think you are bang on. There is now a bit more money to keep Academy players ticking over, rather than just offloading them asap

Our Academy were doing well when the 1st team struggled (6 years in L1) and now our 1st team are doing well without giving the Academy players a run. 99% of the Blades fans prefer it when the 1st team is doing well. Those who accuse Wilder of being Academy blockers are fans like you and disgruntled Academy parents!

THE 1ST TEAM WILL ALWAYS COME FIRST!

 

[Redhead]

Our Academy were doing well when the 1st team struggled (6 years in L1) and now our 1st team are doing well without giving the Academy players a run. 99% of the Blades fans prefer it when the 1st team is doing well. Those who accuse Wilder of being Academy blockers are fans like you and disgruntled Academy parents!

THE 1ST TEAM WILL ALWAYS COME FIRST!

Of course the first team always comes first. It will never be any different.

Any academy parent who thinks their son should be given a chance is dilutional but ever parent thinks their son is the best player since George Best whether they play for Sheffield Utd, Handsworth Boys or Charnock Ridgeway.

But let’s not get too carried away that CW brings young players into the first team. He doesn’t.

Absolutely nothing wrong with that as long as the first team is successful.

The club has moved so fast in the last two and a half years that it is very difficult to produce players of a high enough standard in that time.
If we were still in league one we would have 4 or 5 home grown lads in the team.

 

[EddieColquhoun]

But let’s not get too carried away that CW brings young players into the first team. He doesn’t.

Except for Calvert-Lewin, Adams, Ramsdale, Brooks, Eastwood, Chapman, Riley, Bennett, Carter-Vickers, Slater, Henderson and Woodbourn.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Our Academy were doing well when the 1st team struggled (6 years in L1) and now our 1st team are doing well without giving the Academy players a run. 99% of the Blades fans prefer it when the 1st team is doing well. Those who accuse Wilder of being Academy blockers are fans like you and disgruntled Academy parents!

THE 1ST TEAM WILL ALWAYS COME FIRST!

Silent Blade that's a bit accusatory. Apologies, I've clearly given the wrong impression. I understand you feel I am accusing Wilder of being an Academy Blocker. I meant it more as a simple neutral observation. I am a committed First Team First guy. Apologies

 

[Redhead]

Except for Calvert-Lewin, Adams, Ramsdale, Brooks, Eastwood, Chapman, Riley, Bennett, Carter-Vickers, Slater, Henderson and Woodbourn.

We are talking home grown academy players but let’s take loan ones as well.

DCL . Was shipped off as soon as possible.
Adams. Was shipped off as soon as possible
Ramsdale. Was shipped off as soon as possible playing 2 games
Brooks. Only played 12 games, then off he went
Eastwood. No where near first team
Chapman. Not our player, hardly played
Riley. Not our player, played once?
Bennett. No where near first team played once
Carter Vickers. Not our player. Lasted 6 months, never a regular
Slater. 2 cup appearances. No where near first team, then he signs Leonard.
Henderson. Not our player but yes has played week on week
Woodburn. Not our player. Lucky to have played 30 minutes.

I will add Thomas, Heneghan, Mcgaey if you want.

My point is clear. Apart from Henderson CW does not play young players. Homegrown or not.

There is nothing wrong with that at all. If we do not produce good enough players then that’s to be expected.

 

[1889]

I think Uniteds academy players get a chance, if they are thought to be good enough.

The higher up the football pyramid the first team is, then obviously, the better the academy player needs to be to force his way into the managers plans. Like many careers, football development can be a slow and steady process, very few will be ready to make the step up from Academy to Championship level.

But Walker, Naughton, Maguire, Lowton, Adams, Calvert-Lewin and Brooks, would all suggest that for a club at our level, we have an excellent record of nursing young players from academy level to first team professionals.

UTB

 

[Redhead]

I think Uniteds academy players get a chance, if they are thought to be good enough.

The higher up the football pyramid the first team is, then obviously, the better the academy player needs to be to force his way into the managers plans. Like many careers, football development can be a slow and steady process, very few will be ready to make the step up from Academy to Championship level.

But Walker, Naughton, Maguire, Lowton, Adams, Calvert-Lewin and Brooks, would all suggest that for a club at our level, we have an excellent record of nursing young players from academy level to first team professionals.

UTB

I agree 1889 and yes all of the above apart from Adams is spot on. Adams was never in the academy set up.

I think the number of good professional players to come out of our academy is excellent but not many have regularly played for SUFC. Except Maguire.

Then and now we cash in too quickly

 

[JackSUFC]

I think the number of good professional players to come out of our academy is excellent but not many have regularly played for SUFC. Except Maguire.

Jagielka?

I get your point but Lowton and Naughton had full seasons here. Also Brooks played a lot more than 12 times.

 

[EddieColquhoun]

My point is clear. Apart from Henderson CW does not play young players.

You said CW doesn't play young players and I listed 12.
One is playing for England U21s and 4 others moved to teams higher up the ladder than us.
I think CW is doing a good job.
Your point is clear but it's beginning to sound like that of di Italiano's Dad when he posted on here.

 

[EddieColquhoun]

Jagielka?

I get your point but Lowton and Naughton had full seasons here. Also Brooks played a lot more than 12 times.

That Sharp will never do owt.

 

[Redhead]

You said CW doesn't play young players and I listed 12.
One is playing for England U21s and 4 others moved to teams higher up the ladder than us.
I think CW is doing a good job.
Your point is clear but it's beginning to sound like that of di Italiano's Dad when he posted on here.

Who said he wasn’t doing a good job?

Of the 12 players you mention only one was/ is a regular. Out of interest why of the 4 that moved on to higher things never play week in week out for us?

I do not think any academy player should play in our first team if they are not good enough. Sadly the Italians dad thought his lad was a world beater.

I am sorry you don’t like my opinion but that’s what the forum is all about.

 

[Redhead]

That Sharp will never do owt.

In all fairness we shipped Billy off to Scunthorpe for £100k because he was deemed not good enough. Or was that because we needed the cash. Not sure on that one.

 

[GV Blade]

Its hard to give 'young uns' a chance when your team is fighting for promotions like we have been for the last 3 seasons.
The only chance you have is cup games.
Wilder has been too good for us if that makes sense - forced to play seasoned pro's to maintain a possible promotion push.
Maybe if we were in a similar position to the Pigs, cant go up, wont go down, Wilder could have more scope to introduce the young uns.
Seems as though Wilders philosophy is though - go and learn your trade at the sharp end - non league / lower league football.
The cream will always rise to the top eventually,
Our academy's reputation is excellent, so clubs will always be willing to give our players a try.
Overall we are in good hands with Wilder, he wont miss much of whats happening with the young uns.
Out of interest, how many players do we have on professional contracts ? There seems a lot !

 

[Redhead]

Its hard to give 'young uns' a chance when your team is fighting for promotions like we have been for the last 3 seasons.
The only chance you have is cup games.
Wilder has been too good for us if that makes sense - forced to play seasoned pro's to maintain a possible promotion push.
Maybe if we were in a similar position to the Pigs, cant go up, wont go down, Wilder could have more scope to introduce the young uns.
Seems as though Wilders philosophy is though - go and learn your trade at the sharp end - non league / lower league football.
The cream will always rise to the top eventually,
Our academy's reputation is excellent, so clubs will always be willing to give our players a try.
Overall we are in good hands with Wilder, he wont miss much of whats happening with the young uns.
Out of interest, how many players do we have on professional contracts ? There seems a lot !

I agree. The club has moved on at such a speed that the academy will take time to catch up.
One thing is for sure, the club is in the best shape it has been for many many years.