Chris Wilder's position as Sheffield United boss

[The Crab]

They Might not have as well , every transfer for the PL at our level of fee and wages is a gamble , just who is this guru that’s gonna get them all right ?

I dunno mate, just an opinion at the end of the day

 

[S64 Blade]

I think CW has an agenda here.
Despite the Prince's assurance about his future, he may be using the potential loss of "full" control as an excuse to walk into another job in the Prem in the next couple of months. He has had a taste of life at the top and wants to stay there....
CW's name will be high up the list of any Prem vacancy.
UTB

Agree with the first bit, but not so much the second.

I do think it's a control thing really. Wouldn't surprise me if his mate, Wit, has tipped off the Daily Mail (he does seem to be the archetypal Daily Mail reader). As you say, the Prince have given assurances on his future, but there are some strings attached to this, to avoid mistakes repeating themselves - but also, to take some of the burden off Wilder.

If we do have a DoF, I don't see why it still couldn't be the case that Wilder has final say - or a larger share of the vote on the transfer committee.

I don't think his name will be too high up most Prem vacancies now. A year ago, without a doubt, but now, I am not so sure. Football is a fickle place.

 

[S40BLADE]

Seems a good number fail to understand that maybe with a DoF (or similar role) it could help us get more value out of the little dosh we have if they had extensive knowledge of some foreign leagues. We cant just remain playing the British market forever as it is easily on average the least value for money especially regarding fees for decent talent. Wilder whether managing us or someone else in the future needs to learn/come to the fact that he cannot do absolutely everything by himself and with his own staff.

 

[Davalon]

Public utterances from Prince's pals and a retweet himself that wasn't strictly accurate. At best it's a power struggle. At worst he's being undermined and forced out.

In fairness to Jim he's been 100% supportive of Chris all through this season but will have loyalty to PA.

I'm desperate for CW to stay but I'm not comfortable with this current climate of people being looked at to pick a dog in the fight.

First and foremost I'm a Sheffield United fan of 40 years plus and I've grown weary of the club shooting itself in the foot.

 

[robbiez666]

The only way Sheffield United can become an established premier league team is to pay premier league wages it’s as simple as that.
Like other have said a director of football isn’t going to get us players to come on less wages than he would at another club. It was obvious Chris gave the board a list of targets it was up to the board to agree tot those deals or not. I don’t think any of us would think Marty Cash would be worth 16m. I would imagine we thought at the time we had a chance to get him same as Robinson at Fulham. We lost out to a newly promoted team for that signing because they paid bigger wages that should tell everyone everything you need to know.
The Prince has had an easy ride at the minute, he bought a club for peanuts and the manager managed to get it into the premier league against all the odds. It could go sour really quickly if he goes down the DOF route at the expense of Chris Wilder. Believe me the vast majority of our fan base are still fully behind the manager is it goes belly up then he will be in for a tough time

But managed to sign Berge though? It's not just about 'paying premier league wages', which is undoubtedly a factor. It's about recruiting from outside of the English league, which our manager doesn't want to do.

I'd rather my club was stable than just throwing money at it. Both Fulham and West Brom have bigger wage bills than us because they've both been premier league regulars. We can't compete because we've come up quickly from league 1. It's ridiculous to just expect us to match their wage structures straight away. There's a long list of clubs who just paid high wages straight away and it hasn't exactly ended well.

 

[nopigfansintown]

In fairness to Jim he's been 100% supportive of Chris all through this season but will have loyalty to PA.

I'm desperate for CW to stay but I'm not comfortable with this current climate of people being looked at to pick a dog in the fight.

First and foremost I'm a Sheffield United fan of 40 years plus and I've grown weary of the club shooting itself in the foot.

Disagree. He's insinuated that transfers are 100% the role of CW and that our wage bill is competitive at this level. Neither are true. All PA had to say/do was the public statement in favour of Wilder that he made months ago.

 

[Chris the Blade]

Wilder would never get a job at a big club. He's not fashionable enough and he hasn't got the tactical nous. Someone like Palace maybe but that's his limit in the Prem. Still think he's a championship manager at best

 

[Robboblade1889]

But managed to sign Berge though? It's not just about 'paying premier league wages', which is undoubtedly a factor. It's about recruiting from outside of the English league, which our manager doesn't want to do.

I'd rather my club was stable than just throwing money at it. Both Fulham and West Brom have bigger wage bills than us because they've both been premier league regulars. We can't compete because we've come up quickly from league 1. It's ridiculous to just expect us to match their wage structures straight away. There's a long list of clubs who just paid high wages straight away and it hasn't exactly ended well.

Robbie I think you may have misunderstood with regards wages. I am not against the wage structure we have in place it’s what I have been saying all season. However there comes a time when I suppose we either have to gamble or have someone come in to invest.
With regards your comments about Wilder not want to sign foreign players that’s a load of rubbish. You have no idea that the manager doesn’t want to sign foreign players. The issues will be attracting foreign players who are good enough for the premier league, I also think the pandemic hasn’t helped with bringing in players from Europe. We have signed a couple of up and coming prospects from Europe and I am quite sure if our recruitment team find players in Europe Chris Wilder won’t turn them down just because they are foreign.

 

[McGrath]

He’s 28 and has a sports and accountancy background. True he’s not experienced in running a club as big as United but he’s not some wet behind the ears kid given a job by his Dad with no business experience.


In 2010, Musa’ad established a leading football academy focusing on the development of youth players. It was also used as a training facility for other football teams in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.[citation needed]

In 2015, Musa’ad was a member of the consultant team, Prince Abdullah Bin Musa’ad Bin Abdulaziz Al Saud had during his time as the President of the General Sports Authority in Saudi Arabia.[citation needed]

In 2016, Musa’ad joined Ernst & Young. He held three positions during his time there: Consultant, Senior Consultant in Strategy & Customer, and EY's Sport & Entertainment Sector Manager at EY MENA Advisory Services.[citation needed]

Musa’ad is the chairman of Sheffield United F.C.[2] and director of K Beerschot VA.

Well that's not reassured me much.

Degrees and certificates don't give a person leadership qualities and drive.

 

[Bashamed]

Really fucking worried about him leaving now

 

[McGrath]

Due to be finished for the 21/22 season. Dodgy? Don't agree with you there. They seem the board that have just seen 130m of investment literally spaffed up the wall. Quite rightly a bit unsure of offering the guy who's wasted money on shit more.

Spaffed up the wall?

They agree to the signings, theywould have done the background. They set the parameters of what wages we can offer, which is the lowest in the division.

It's not their money either. It's the clubs money.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Well that's not reassured me much.

Degrees and certificates don't give a person leadership qualities and drive.

I’d suggest a senior position with EY at a relatively young age suggests otherwise. What would you prefer, a foreman of 20 years standing working on the bins?

 

[guancheblade]

Wasn't Berge signed via this sort of route? A player most agree is good but doesn't fit the system. Personally I think wilder has still done well with transfers. Up till the premier league it was brilliant and whilst the recent signings have not hit the ground running they were signed for their long term prospects and certainly shouldn't be written off as bad transfers.

Some people have very short term memories if you consider CW's recruitment "brilliant" up until the Premier League. For every Duffy and Fleck there's a Carruthers and Evans. Which places his transfer record hit and miss at best.

He spent 3 or 4 windows chasing Ryan Leonard, Wilder was the cat that got the cream once we eventually signed him, and then proceeded to play him what... twice?? Similar story with Ricky Holmes (a player who Wilder had previously managed at Northampton). As an owner I would be asking questions of my manager if he's putting that much energy into signing players that never yield a thing for the team.

Ironically I think the recruitment last summer was significantly better than both windows in the previous season. At least there was a sense of long term squad rebuilding. But last year was very much a take a punt approach (which I think underlines Wilder's recruitment strategy full stop). And this might have been perfectly sustainable for a club our size in L1 and the Championship. But when you get to the Prem and with the fees and wages involved, the punts that don't come off are much more costly. And perhaps the board is taking more notice of this now. Last season we broke the club's transfer record with three consecutive signings, all of which turned out to be duds.

Anything that can make our recruitment more consistent and successful is welcomed by me. Whether that's a DoF or an investment in overhauling the scouting network I don't know.

 

[BushBlade]

Right, so you just want him to find players that nobody else thinks are valuable, yet are guaranteed to be better than the expensive players.

That’s what everybody wants. Someone to find the “next Mahrez and Kante”. The concept is that they’re out there and we just need to find them. I think the more fashionable “proof” of this are the two Czech players West Ham have found. Of course, you have to ignore the foreign signings that didn’t work, like Haller. And the new work permit issues.

 

[finlaytheblade]

I don’t see anything wrong with the Princes’ approach. Chris is a great coach and man manager but I’m afraid his dealings in the transfer market are appalling...I don’t buy the transfer ‘target’ scenario, you cut your cloth accordingly and maybe some help in the minefield that is the transfer market is just what he needs...

Nothing wrong with a director of football so long as he can work with the manager on recruitment.
The manager has to be involved in all transactions.
This kind of management can breakdown if there not on the same page .Totally not workable if they are not together on most things.
Delegation is key to good management .Maybe the prince feels Wilder has too much on his plate .Which wouldnt be a surprise as the higher you go the more involved it becomes .
Does it have to be a director of football ? its all about working together as a team to get the best out of everyone that includes tea ladies etc.

 

[Andy67]

Wilder will leave for the start of next season and he will leave for a team that is currently in the bottom 5 of our division. Wilder has been rightfully furious about not getting the agreement to get his left centre back target but Lingard was the end of it.

 

[billyblademan]

I’d suggest a senior position with EY at a relatively young age suggests otherwise. What would you prefer, a foreman of 20 years standing working on the bins?

To nit pick, a senior consultant at EY is a second year position in a graduate role. He's about as senior as the auditor who's now checking invoices rather than PPE.

 

[Chingo]

But managed to sign Berge though? It's not just about 'paying premier league wages', which is undoubtedly a factor. It's about recruiting from outside of the English league, which our manager doesn't want to do.

I'd rather my club was stable than just throwing money at it. Both Fulham and West Brom have bigger wage bills than us because they've both been premier league regulars. We can't compete because we've come up quickly from league 1. It's ridiculous to just expect us to match their wage structures straight away. There's a long list of clubs who just paid high wages straight away and it hasn't exactly ended well.

Then by the same token it’s unfair to expect every wilder signing to be a success

 

[Chingo]

Robbie I think you may have misunderstood with regards wages. I am not against the wage structure we have in place it’s what I have been saying all season. However there comes a time when I suppose we either have to gamble or have someone come in to invest.
With regards your comments about Wilder not want to sign foreign players that’s a load of rubbish. You have no idea that the manager doesn’t want to sign foreign players. The issues will be attracting foreign players who are good enough for the premier league, I also think the pandemic hasn’t helped with bringing in players from Europe. We have signed a couple of up and coming prospects from Europe and I am quite sure if our recruitment team find players in Europe Chris Wilder won’t turn them down just because they are foreign.

Wasn’t it only a couple of years ago that people were commenting that we had no black players ?

 

[Chingo]

Some people have very short term memories if you consider CW's recruitment "brilliant" up until the Premier League. For every Duffy and Fleck there's a Carruthers and Evans. Which places his transfer record hit and miss at best.

He spent 3 or 4 windows chasing Ryan Leonard, Wilder was the cat that got the cream once we eventually signed him, and then proceeded to play him what... twice?? Similar story with Ricky Holmes (a player who Wilder had previously managed at Northampton). As an owner I would be asking questions of my manager if he's putting that much energy into signing players that never yield a thing for the team.

Ironically I think the recruitment last summer was significantly better than both windows in the previous season. At least there was a sense of long term squad rebuilding. But last year was very much a take a punt approach (which I think underlines Wilder's recruitment strategy full stop). And this might have been perfectly sustainable for a club our size in L1 and the Championship. But when you get to the Prem and with the fees and wages involved, the punts that don't come off are much more costly. And perhaps the board is taking more notice of this now. Last season we broke the club's transfer record with three consecutive signings, all of which turned out to be duds.

Anything that can make our recruitment more consistent and successful is welcomed by me. Whether that's a DoF or an investment in overhauling the scouting network I don't know.

But of the players you mentioned he got the money back and made a profit on a couple of them !

 

[guancheblade]

But of the players you mentioned he got the money back and made a profit on a couple of them !

Or better still, don't waste all that time pursuing someone who isn't gonna play and sign someone who is instead?

 

[Balham]

My point is that expecting Cash to be available for the money we had seems like it was unlikely. That's not saying Wilder is a bad manager, just that perhaps more preparation work was required

It may well be that the initial work undertaken by the scouting team suggested that Matty Cash would be available for £8m. Forest's response was to publicly reject that bid in the hope that someone else would come along and pay a higher price (as they are fully entitled to!). I doubt they expected Villa to agree to the first price named (£14m rising to £16m).

If anyone else brings up Antonee Robinson as an example of Wilder not being backed though... Wilder was fully behind the decision to walk away from that one, he didn't want to match Fulham's frankly ridiculous wage offer.

 

[McGrath]

I’d suggest a senior position with EY at a relatively young age suggests otherwise. What would you prefer, a foreman of 20 years standing working on the bins?

No don't be silly

 

[Chingo]

Or better still, don't waste all that time pursuing someone who isn't gonna play and sign someone who is instead?

Wouldn’t it be great if EVERY signing came off , I’m sure he bought him with the intention of playing him

 

[Carlton Blade]

It may well be that the initial work undertaken by the scouting team suggested that Matty Cash would be available for £8m. Forest's response was to publicly reject that bid in the hope that someone else would come along and pay a higher price (as they are fully entitled to!). I doubt they expected Villa to agree to the first price named (£14m rising to £16m).

If anyone else brings up Antonee Robinson as an example of Wilder not being backed though... Wilder was fully behind the decision to walk away from that one, he didn't want to match Fulham's frankly ridiculous wage offer.

To be 50% out is poor work from the scouting team then. It's going to be things like that, asking for Wilson/Watkins when you know we won't get them and not just the actual buys that are causing the owner to question the methods.

I would love to know if the "United World" set up make player suggestions to Wilder etc al

 

[BarcaBlade]

No they wouldn't have, but they MIGHT have found an equivalent from elsewhere

I thought we'd found an equivalent from somewhere else. J Bogle.

 

[Balham]

To be 50% out is poor work from the scouting team then. It's going to be things like that, asking for Wilson/Watkins when you know we won't get them and not just the actual buys that are causing the owner to question the methods.

I would love to know if the "United World" set up make player suggestions to Wilder etc al

But what if the opening bit was the gambit in settling for a £10m-£12m fee? It feels like we're relying on initial calls with agents as gospel - "yeah sure Paul, Matty's keen on joining you guys. Think Forest want £10m but they might settle for less. About £20k per week OK?"

Two weeks later..."Paul - Villa have come in with £14m rising to £16m. They're offering him £50k. You'll have to better that as he's keen to join them"

 

[Carlton Blade]

But what if the opening bit was the gambit in settling for a £10m-£12m fee? It feels like we're relying on initial calls with agents as gospel - "yeah sure Paul, Matty's keen on joining you guys. Think Forest want £10m but they might settle for less. About £20k per week OK?"

Two weeks later..."Paul - Villa have come in with £14m rising to £16m. They're offering him £50k. You'll have to better that as he's keen to join them"

It's all suppositions be fair. And to give the recruitment It's due it looks like they moved on to Bogle and got a great deal.

Disappointed that we didn't make similar moves after not getting Swift.

 

[FriethBlade]

Don't agree with that part. He's essentially shown (as thing stand) that he's shite with big money transfers, is very limited in the market he dips into. He's leading us to one of the worse finishes on record as things currently stand. His attitude towards the board is somewhat laughable (imo) imagine getting arsey after wasting such a vast amount of money. If me, you, anyone for that matter acted like Chris is acting now, then we'd be quickly shipped out and unemployed. Think he should be thanking his lucky stars he's still got a job, because any ANY other manager and theyll have got the bullet a long time ago.

Dane I actually think Wilder may be trying to force the board to sack him as if there no money to build a team to come back up he can see the writing is on the wall and he doesn't want his reputation ruining. Hes got decent reasons for this season's debacle but a poor season next year and he won't have.

However the board don't appear to want to go down this route probably because they know they will massively alienate the fan base and it will cost a lot of money.

Wilder wont walk as not only will he be leaving a lot of.money on the table but it's the livelihood of some of his staff at stake too.

Hence the impasse, I for one hope its sorted and we can push on next season but its starting look like a lot of bridges have been burned. Who will blink first and if nobody does what does that mean for the summer 'rebuild... or should I say dismantling' ?

 

[guancheblade]

Wilder will leave for the start of next season and he will leave for a team that is currently in the bottom 5 of our division. Wilder has been rightfully furious about not getting the agreement to get his left centre back target but Lingard was the end of it.

His only left centre back target went to Liverpool! You think we could offer anywhere near those wages?

And the argument NOT to sign Lingard was probably as compelling as the one to sign him. Ultimately West Ham got involved and even if we were prepared to match wages/fees he was always going to choose them over us which is why I think it's a very petty reason for Wilder to cross swords with the owner. There has to be more to it than that, other wise it makes Wilder look like a mardy git.