Outgoing? Chris Wilder

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Personally I would imagine des Taylor will have been doing the equivalent of scouting reports on each of our games (didn’t he do this for Bournemouth ?? )
If he has seen the things we have recognised through out the season I'm sure he'll have passed these onto the board ??
As for wilders contract extension I would have thought that was for stability because of our position when they took over ?
Tbf I would imagine there will have been certain conditions to allow for dismissal with the slightest hint of bringing the clubs name into disrepute, ( which wit is pouring fuel on the fire )
As for replacement they'll have already approached someone probably just waiting for a answer or availability
 

LondonRoad said:
United are using AI for development players. That is all
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Let me fix that a little bit:

(So far) United are using have used AI (as part of an analysis-based scouting model) for (the signing of three) development players. That is all

There's no chance that we don't start to use the methods that brought the 3 young lads in, on potential first team signings. Having it just to pick out youth prospects is quite redundant - we've got a excellent record of bringing through young players even without being a top-level academy.

We will certainly be using whatever tools the new owners have procured, to find players who are ready-made first teamers if/when we sign them. We'll certainly keep on tracking youngsters as well, but it won't be just for that.
 
Aston max said:
Personally I would imagine des Taylor will have been doing the equivalent of scouting reports on each of our games (didn’t he do this for Bournemouth ?? )
If he has seen the things we have recognised through out the season I'm sure he'll have passed these onto the board ??
As for wilders contract extension I would have thought that was for stability because of our position when they took over ?
Tbf I would imagine there will have been certain conditions to allow for dismissal with the slightest hint of bringing the clubs name into disrepute, ( which wit is pouring fuel on the fire )
As for replacement they'll have already approached someone probably just waiting for a answer or availability
Click to expand...

No. You complete a business plan, tell your customers, fans, punters whatever, the detail and stick to that rigidly, even, for example there’s a possible serious issue with one of the most senior and important employees. The last thing you do is sit down to discuss deviations.

I mean look how that’s worked just a few miles away……
 
Shadota said:
Let me fix that a little bit:

(So far) United are using have used AI (as part of an analysis-based scouting model) for (the signing of three) development players. That is all

There's no chance that we don't start to use the methods that brought the 3 young lads in, on potential first team signings. Having it just to pick out youth prospects is quite redundant - we've got a excellent record of bringing through young players even without being a top-level academy.

We will certainly be using whatever tools the new owners have procured, to find players who are ready-made first teamers if/when we sign them. We'll certainly keep on tracking youngsters as well, but it won't be just for that.
Click to expand...


Infraction coming for using actual quotes.

Poor form Sir, Poor form.
 
Aston max said:
Personally I would imagine des Taylor will have been doing the equivalent of scouting reports on each of our games (didn’t he do this for Bournemouth ?? )
If he has seen the things we have recognised through out the season I'm sure he'll have passed these onto the board ??
As for wilders contract extension I would have thought that was for stability because of our position when they took over ?
Tbf I would imagine there will have been certain conditions to allow for dismissal with the slightest hint of bringing the clubs name into disrepute, ( which wit is pouring fuel on the fire )
As for replacement they'll have already approached someone probably just waiting for a answer or availability
Click to expand...
Spot on!
 
Sean Thornton said:
No. You complete a business plan, tell your customers, fans, punters whatever, the detail and stick to that rigidly, even, for example there’s a possible serious issue with one of the most senior and important employees. The last thing you do is sit down to discuss deviations.

I mean look how that’s worked just a few miles away……
Click to expand...
Tbf the companies I've worked for and been involved at site board level always built a case against any higher manager level employee causing issues to the point of walking them off site. But not before a replacement was sourced even if it was only a temporary appointment.
To my shame in my now retirement years I've led a few of these investigations and helped a few (sometimes really nice guys) out of the door.
 
GeorgeDonis1889 said:
Yes I'd hold them responsible not their mate. We're all just guessing what's going on anyway. Find out one way or the other very soon probably
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Aye
But do you hold a senior position & (are required to) operate as the public face of a multi million pound business in an era where image & presentation are (deemed) fundamental for ‘success’. Like everything in the modern world tarnished appearance, reputation & perception (usually) lead to failure as such are not tolerated by a media (& populace) obsessed by the ‘optics’.
Gone are the days when ‘passionate straight talking northern grit’ are deemed a strength & (perverse) virtue. Such are only relevant when accompanied by ‘style’ even if the (actual substance was predicated upon such (affable?) appeal & ‘charm.
United (& Wilder) were (rightly) feted during his first incarnation where an identifiable style perfectly melded with the steely demeanour of the plucky local lad, fan, player pursuing his (impossible) dream for his club- We appeared to be everyone’s ‘2nd favourite team’’ as the fairytale narrative was nurtured & perpetrated.

In hindsight , Wilder’s public sandwich rant was the beginning of the end giving a first indication to the nation that he was somewhat different to the fairytale narrative - scales were lifted from eyes and a more objective (insightful & accurate) analysis of Wilder, his team & his club started to emerge, and crucially be reported / commented upon. Just as we had been adopted, lauded, wrung out and discarded so new darlings emerge(d) or were created & so it goes.
Wilders personal failings became more apparent (or reported upon) & he wasn’t savvy enough aware enough informed enough or advised enough to stop (or slow down) the rot.That decline slowly brought us to today via abject performances, ugly style (sic) & Ill discipline (on & off the pitch)
Wilder can’t (won’t ?) reign in an ignorant yob even though he must know that such will inevitably be seen as a reflection upon himself, whether that is ‘fair’ or not.
If your (best) mate was (continually) ‘chatting shit’ in a manner that (likely) compromises your working relationship, (with no detriment to himself, indeed likely boosting an already over inflated ego by most accounts) when would you intervene?
Of course he should ‘have a word’
If he chooses not to do so I’d expect Wilder’s employer to seek to exert influence over the only person they have any leverage with (‘authority’ over)
I fear it’s all now irretrievable - It appears that if Wilder remains - ‘half ‘ the board are unhappy, if he goes (t’other) half of the board are unhappy
 
Last edited:
gaffablade said:
That is not Nixon. No journo would spell like that.
Click to expand...
Its still not official ! Not way will the owners comment on rumour! What's for sure ! If true and the owners are split! He has to go as he is on borrowed time! It will not work without the support of a united board of directors.
 
Just not sure that any replacement manager we talk about on here that we consider to be capable of promotion is going to agree to the constraints that AI might bring when signing players?

There has to be a degree of manager input and so for me therefore it will depend on how much input these “soccer” owners allow the manager to influence the decision

What I don’t want to see is the owners signing a yes man

Any manager imo worth his salt isn’t going to agree to AI deciding who we sign. Just my opinion
 

Moan? Nope-I saw Longhorn said:
Aye
But do you hold a senior position & (are required to) operate as the public face of a multi million pound business in an era where image & presentation are (deemed) fundamental for ‘success’. Like everything in the modern world tarnished appearance, reputation & perception (usually) lead to failure as such are not tolerated by a media (& populace) obsessed by the ‘optics’.
Gone are the days when ‘passionate straight talking northern grit’ are deemed a strength & (perverse) virtue. Such are only relevant when accompanied by ‘style’ even if the (actual substance was predicated upon such (affable?) appeal & ‘charm.
United (& Wilder) were (rightly) feted during his first incarnation where an identifiable style perfectly melded with the steely demeanour of the plucky local lad, fan, player pursuing his (impossible) dream for his club- We appeared to be everyone’s ‘2nd favourite team’’ as the fairytale narrative was nurtured & perpetrated.

In hindsight , Wilder’s public sandwich rant was the beginning of the end giving a first indication to the nation that he was somewhat different to the fairytale narrative - scales were lifted from eyes and a more objective (insightful & accurate) analysis of Wilder, his team & his club started to emerge, and crucially be reported / commented upon. Just as we had been adopted, lauded, wrung out and discarded so new darlings emerge(d) or were created & so it goes.
Wilders personal failings became more apparent (or reported upon) & he wasn’t savvy enough aware enough informed enough or advised enough to stop (or slow down) the rot.That decline slowly brought us to today via abject performances, ugly style (sic) & Ill discipline (on & off the pitch)
Wilder can’t (won’t ?) reign in an ignorant yob even though he must know that such will inevitably be seen as a reflection upon himself, whether that is ‘fair’ or not.
If your (best) mate was (continually) ‘chatting shit’ in a manner that (likely) compromises your working relationship, (with no detriment to himself, indeed likely boosting an already over inflated ego by most accounts) when would you intervene?
Of course he should ‘have a word’
If he chooses not to do so I’d expect Wilder’s employer to seek to exert influence over the only person they have any leverage with (‘authority’ over)
I fear it’s all now irretrievable - It appears that if Wilder remains - ‘half ‘ the board are unhappy, if he goes (t’other) half of the board are unhappy
Click to expand...
Excellent post and explanation. Thank you.

The only point I'd add is that the 'sandwich rant' came well after our PL defeat at Leicester. IIRC we lost 2-0, were exposed all over the pitch, all game, and Wilder was exposed in the post match presser, throwing the 'league one players' (his words) under the bus in an ill considered, bad attitude, angry rant that said, in essence, 'nothing to do with me guv'.

And he's continued from there. It's never his fault. When has he ever said 'that's on me and Alan' when weve had a bad day, but loves posturing, posing in front of the fans and badge thumping when there's glory to be had.

His disappearance after the final whistle at Wembley was typical of him and an appalling leadership failure. But then, if he can't control his mate, even when his own employment is at risk, why should we expect anything more?

The mood music in the media doesn't sound great. I'd suggest this will be done, one way or another, by this evening.
 
Whatever is going on behind the scenes I hope it's resolved soon, one way or another or it's another summer of wasted time instead of concentrating on what actually matters, the team and sorting out signing, preparing the players for the new season, not unrest behind the scenes, this will upset the players, fans and the staff alike, leaving us scrambling in the last week to sign someone, get it sorted and get on with running a team and club to make the supporters proud of
 
Blade58 said:
Just not sure that any replacement manager we talk about on here that we consider to be capable of promotion is going to agree to the constraints that AI might bring when signing players?

There has to be a degree of manager input and so for me therefore it will depend on how much input these “soccer” owners allow the manager to influence the decision

What I don’t want to see is the owners signing a yes man

Any manager imo worth his salt isn’t going to agree to AI deciding who we sign. Just my opinion
Click to expand...

Do you really believe this shit. ?
 
54yrblade said:
Excellent post and explanation. Thank you.

The only point I'd add is that the 'sandwich rant' came well after our PL defeat at Leicester. IIRC we lost 2-0, were exposed all over the pitch, all game, and Wilder was exposed in the post match presser, throwing the 'league one players' (his words) under the bus in an ill considered, bad attitude, angry rant that said, in essence, 'nothing to do with me guv'.

And he's continued from there. It's never his fault. When has he ever said 'that's on me and Alan' when weve had a bad day, but loves posturing, posing in front of the fans and badge thumping when there's glory to be had.

His disappearance after the final whistle at Wembley was typical of him and an appalling leadership failure. But then, if he can't control his mate, even when his own employment is at risk, why should we expect anything more?

The mood music in the media doesn't sound great. I'd suggest this will be done, one way or another, by this evening.
Click to expand...
Appreciated & reciprocated, albeit you give (me) too much credit with “explanation” merely an opinion.
Ultimately the (reported) puerile & pathetic posturing of an (by all my (admittedly) limited observations an idiotic imbecilic ignoramus are symptomatic and (now) emblematic of the deeper malaise.
Wilder is ‘guilty by association’ having failed to recognise acknowledge or address his own (initially relatively minor) shortcomings he created, (or @ least failed to prevent) toxic attitudes & environments to develop fester & ultimately flourish around & within his ‘personal’ life & circles.
He needs to decide whether his ultimate ‘ loyalty’ is to mates or employer. At one time he could have ‘ridden both horses, but now the stable appears empty following the door being kicked down by his witless crony
 
Moan? Nope-I saw Longhorn said:
Appreciated & reciprocated, albeit you give (me) too much credit with “explanation” merely an opinion.
Ultimately the (reported) puerile & pathetic posturing of an (by all my (admittedly) limited observations an idiotic imbecilic ignoramus are symptomatic and (now) emblematic of the deeper malaise.
Wilder is ‘guilty by association’ having failed to recognise acknowledge or address his own (initially relatively minor) shortcomings he created, (or @ least failed to prevent) toxic attitudes & environments to develop fester & ultimately flourish around & within his ‘personal’ life & circles.
He needs to decide whether his ultimate ‘ loyalty’ is to mates or employer. At one time he could have ‘ridden both horses, but now the stable appears empty following the door being kicked down by his witless crony
Click to expand...
Excellent opinion then 👍
Let's see how it pans out.
 
Pintor75 said:
Whatever is going on behind the scenes I hope it's resolved soon, one way or another or it's another summer of wasted time instead of concentrating on what actually matters, the team and sorting out signing, preparing the players for the new season, not unrest behind the scenes, this will upset the players, fans and the staff alike, leaving us scrambling in the last week to sign someone, get it sorted and get on with running a team and club to make the supporters proud of
Click to expand...
If signings are informed / (primarily) driven by AI it is unlikely that the 3 week ‘delay’ has had much influence within the now closed window. The presence or absence of Wilder (or his ‘replacement) will have little initial involvement or influence on transfer processes - up to now.
Wilder has been (appropriately) away from the club as have the players so similar limited implications for “preparing for next season” - up to now
You are spot on however regarding the increasing imperative to ‘crack on’ - make the decision one way or t’other & give the gaffer (current or new) the best opportunity to succeed.
This clock is indeed ticking
 
Blade58 said:
Just not sure that any replacement manager we talk about on here that we consider to be capable of promotion is going to agree to the constraints that AI might bring when signing players?

There has to be a degree of manager input and so for me therefore it will depend on how much input these “soccer” owners allow the manager to influence the decision

What I don’t want to see is the owners signing a yes man

Any manager imo worth his salt isn’t going to agree to AI deciding who we sign. Just my opinion
Click to expand...

To me I think the point is no manager should want to rely purely on AI to sign a player. I don’t believe that should ever be the sole approach, but should instead be a tool deployed in recruitment

Wilder has excelled in getting mostly the right sort of characters who will fit the group and want to play / win. There’s no stat for those intangibles. AI won’t let you know who can be relied on when the chips are down without meeting them, discussing things with other people in the know and also taking that feedback onboard.

This does feel like a situation where you could meet in the middle and get the best of both worlds in terms of recruiting players to the club. But it sounds like both wilder and the owners would need to be willing to do that and be flexible.
 
Bladeinleeds said:
To me I think the point is no manager should want to rely purely on AI to sign a player. I don’t believe that should ever be the sole approach, but should instead be a tool deployed in recruitment

Wilder has excelled in getting mostly the right sort of characters who will fit the group and want to play / win. There’s no stat for those intangibles. AI won’t let you know who can be relied on when the chips are down without meeting them, discussing things with other people in the know and also taking that feedback onboard.

This does feel like a situation where you could meet in the middle and get the best of both worlds in terms of recruiting players to the club. But it sounds like both wilder and the owners would need to be willing to do that and be flexible.
Click to expand...

Recruitment won’t be based solely on AI and stats. What football club owner in their right mind is going to sign off on a multi million pound transfer deal based solely on AI and stats? None!
 
Bladeinleeds said:
To me I think the point is no manager should want to rely purely on AI to sign a player. I don’t believe that should ever be the sole approach, but should instead be a tool deployed in recruitment

Wilder has excelled in getting mostly the right sort of characters who will fit the group and want to play / win. There’s no stat for those intangibles. AI won’t let you know who can be relied on when the chips are down without meeting them, discussing things with other people in the know and also taking that feedback onboard.

This does feel like a situation where you could meet in the middle and get the best of both worlds in terms of recruiting players to the club. But it sounds like both wilder and the owners would need to be willing to do that and be flexible.
Click to expand...
The media narrative appears to be that it’s Wilder’s traditional scouting methods with data playing a role vs the new owners’ methods in which data and AI plays a much larger role. This extends to AI and data being used much more for player identification over existing scouting methods for spotting players. I said separately that I think the owners should be a bit more open about this approach otherwise you lose the narrative to the likes of Alan Biggs and Alan Nixon. And it’s why you have people suggesting this is all about an approach entirely driven by AI.

Regardless, use or not of data and AI is likely ultimately not the deciding factor here rather the role that Wilder plays in transfers and the owners assessment of the job he’s done to date.
 
LondonBlade89 said:
The media narrative appears to be that it’s Wilder’s traditional scouting methods with data playing a role vs the new owners’ methods in which data and AI plays a much larger role. This extends to AI and data being used much more for player identification over existing scouting methods for spotting players. I said separately that I think the owners should be a bit more open about this approach otherwise you lose the narrative to the likes of Alan Biggs and Alan Nixon. And it’s why you have people suggesting this is all about an approach entirely driven by AI.

Regardless, use or not of data and AI is likely ultimately not the deciding factor here rather the role that Wilder plays in transfers and the owners assessment of the job he’s done to date.
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Lose the narrative to Biggseh?

My sources tell me you must be very very drunk!
 
Wilder is a good time manager, whenever it’s got tough I can’t really (other than recruitment) remember our club coming out the other side in a good place. Do I trust wilder to pick us up off the canvas, put in the foundations yes. Is he an architect no, this season’s football has been an example of when a builder tries to act like an architect, it’s solid, but it doesn’t look pretty and it’s not always functional.
 
Blade58 said:
Just not sure that any replacement manager we talk about on here that we consider to be capable of promotion is going to agree to the constraints that AI might bring when signing players?

There has to be a degree of manager input and so for me therefore it will depend on how much input these “soccer” owners allow the manager to influence the decision

What I don’t want to see is the owners signing a yes man

Any manager imo worth his salt isn’t going to agree to AI deciding who we sign. Just my opinion
Click to expand...
Why is it when other clubs do stuff some people bang on about it, and whatever we do make out it's shit?
For ages people have been saying "Look at Brentford, big team of analysts using latest tech to identify young talent, and run at a profit, why don't we do that?"
Then when we do it it's " Just using AI to pick new players and ignore the manager, load of bollocks"

Why??
 

SwissBlade said:
If it’s Jet2 he’ll have to listen to that fecking Jess Glynn song all flight
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I hate that song.

A few years back we'd booked to go to this brand new hotel that was meant to open a month before we went. It didn't open on time so we had to change the holiday last minute to a different place.
We were going as a big group, 4 or 5 families, but had all booked separately so we had to keep ringing up to try and get it sorted. Must have heard about 3hrs of that song on a loop over the course of a day
 
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