Ched Evans: How many goals for ANOTHER chance here?

[coolhandluke]

Surely with his past record we actually would be foolish. We don't need a striker on the pitch who doesn't score. Is there really no one coming through the ranks who would be worth a try out on the bench? Does the academy not have any young strikers?

Im sure there are a couple from the Academy that we could try but it would be foolish in the extreme to ignore a senior striker who is banging them in at League 1 level currently and whos already on the books .

All in all its a win win situation . If he continues his current strike rate at League 1 hes effectively put himself in the shop window which would prove invaluable to us if he comes back and for whatever reason it doesnt work out for him . Hed certainly be easier to move on . But theres still a glimmer of hope he could do it for us too .

To not at the very least look at him here makes no sense at all .

 

[dazzlingblade]

Surely with his past record we actually would be foolish. We don't need a striker on the pitch who doesn't score. Is there really no one coming through the ranks who would be worth a try out on the bench? Does the academy not have any young strikers?

Who was the last academy striker deemed good enough for a chance?? I'm not counting brooks, just out and out strikers, would it have been Ironside??

 

[coolhandluke]

Who was the last academy striker deemed good enough for a chance?? I'm not counting brooks, just out and out strikers, would it have been Ironside??

Ty Smith out of the current crop seems to be doing a lot right at the moment . Whether or not hes ready for a go at First Team level though is an entirely different matter .

Defenders seem to be the mainstay of the Academy right now for some reason .

 

[Revolution]

Who was the last academy striker deemed good enough for a chance?? I'm not counting brooks, just out and out strikers, would it have been Ironside??

DCL, but of course he didn't last long and never scored (indeed his last act in a Blades shirt was to miss an open goal when we lost to Crewe in the league cup).

As I said on another thread academy/youth team strikers have scored a grand total of 3 league goals for us this century - all by Jordan Slew. There's Billy of course, but I don't count him as we've had to buy him twice to get him to score goals!

We are rubbish at getting academy strikers (a) into our first team and (b) actually scoring goals. In 30 years we've produced as actual scorers Lee Morris (6 goals) Clive Mendonca (4 goals first time round) Slew (3 goals) John Reed (2 goals) and Tony Battersby (1 goal). I may be forgetting someone but that's pathetic.

All the more reason to try Evans. As I have said above I don't think he'll succeed but there aren't many alternatives.

 

[Revolution]

Ty Smith out of the current crop seems to be doing a lot right at the moment . Whether or not hes ready for a go at First Team level though is an entirely different matter .

Defenders seem to be the mainstay of the Academy right now for some reason .

Defenders and midfielders. It's been like that for decades. Few forwards and no goalkeepers who played for us in the league between Paul Tomlinson (sold 1987) and George Long (debut 2011).

 

[Sheffsteel]

So many people get flippant when I say things like that. And the Crown had to prove she was too drunk to consent and they obtained a conviction, so let’s not be saying things like there’s no signs she was too drunk.

I don’t think men should have sex with someone new who’s really drunk. It’s really not that controversial a viewpoint.

Totally agree but there are 100’s of “really drunk” youngsters in the Sheffield City centre every weekend.
Unlike on the continent it seems to be the British culture and very fashionable and normal to get “really drunk”.
Many people seem to class “really drunk” as acceptable, it’s the paryletic/ shit faced levels that is classed as socially unacceptable.
The evidence suggested the girl was very drunk but nothing abnormally excessive, certainly not shit faced.

The evidence suggesting she was very drunk was
1: The recorded amout drank in the bars were high but nothing abnormal high.
2; Toxicology reports proves she’d take a lot of alcohol but not exceptional amounts.
3: Video cameras showed her uneasy on her feet like a drunk person but she wasn’t stumbling everywhere and falling down.
4: Witneses (receptionist, Ched and his friend) at the hotel said she was very drunk but she wasn’t falling down and has some awareness. She even remembered to go back for the pizza box.

The evidence suggesting she was paralytic and not enough awareness to make a decision was
1: The girl said she’d suffered a sustained memory loss due to either being drugged on the night or excessive alcohol.
But there was no clear evidence to substantiate why she lost her memory.
2: She lost control of her water works during the night and wet the bed.
There was evidence of this but it doesn’t automatically prove that she was shit faced.

I’ve said from the beginning that she might not have been in a state where she was able give consent but it’s such a grey area and I’ve still no idea how this can be proven based on the weak evidence. Really believe that Ched was made a scapegoat/ a sacrificial lamb for the greater cause of raising awareness of the dangers of promiscuous behaviour when excessive alcohol is involved. Also the fact that he was a footballer, wealth and came across as arrogant in court (remember he said something like “why would I need to rape a defenseless girl when due to my football lifestyle women throw themselves at me offering sex on a regular basis), so some of the jury (especially the women) may have though to reach him a lesson.

It was still terrible behaviour though from all involved (Ched and the girl).
Sometimes think if you play with fire then don’t cry if you end up getting your fingers burnt, so i’m not overly sympathetic.
Apologies to some posters. Nothing more to say now about the case. Will talk about football going forward.

 

[Esablade]

I've got this nagging vision of Ched coming back in Jan, firing us to the play-off's finals and stepping up in the blazing sun to take the penalty that put's us in the Premier League...








































...he misses of course!

'It's The Blades Way!'

UTB!

 

[BladeInIreland]

Ok I’ll stop there - you’re either WUMming or terminally thick.

Neither , your just talking bollocks

I've got this nagging vision of Ched coming back in Jan, firing us to the play-off's finals and stepping up in the blazing sun to take the penalty that put's us in the Premier League...








































...he misses of course!

'It's The Blades Way!'

UTB!

Runs to take it and gets tackled by a copper just before kicking it.

 

[Nick Jansky]

Me and my ex once had sex and neither of us could remember it.

Does that make us both rapists?

So how do you know it happened?

 

[Hamburg Blade]

So she could be blind drunk, more so than this girl was, but if she goes with you that's ok?

But if a girl doesn't appear blind drunk, and asks you to do things, that's not ok? Because you didn't share a kebab and a taxi.

OK I'll bite.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/42/section/1
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/42/section/74

Once a girl is drunk - and it doesn't have to be blind drunk, simply enough so that her judgement could be impaired - the definition of consent is compromised ("freedom and capacity"), which means consent may not have been given, leaving you open to 1(c) which is about your reasonable belief and you're in dangerous territory. You're into someone studying the steps you have taken (2) to make sure your belief is reasonable.
In the examples you've made, the steps that prove it; could be a girl following a "normal" sequence of acts that would lead you to believe she is consenting. I know you don't believe there is any normality in sex, so you'll maybe have trouble with this, but her going with you in a taxi after being picked up in a bar/kebab shop/etc. could apply.
Your second example clearly refers to the case and the point is he didn't take hardly any steps at all - as required by law - so proving that she was capable of consenting or that he had reasonable belief gets tricky. It's down to the subjective decision of first the CPS, then a jury.
Overall it's best not to put yourself in the position where you've reached 1(c).

 

[Sheff de party]

Totally agree but there are 100’s of “really drunk” youngsters in the Sheffield City centre every weekend.
Unlike on the continent it seems to be the British culture and very fashionable and normal to get “really drunk”.
Many people seem to class “really drunk” as acceptable, it’s the paryletic/ shit faced levels that is classed as socially unacceptable.
The evidence suggested the girl was very drunk but nothing abnormally excessive, certainly not shit faced.

The evidence suggesting she was very drunk was
1: The recorded amout drank in the bars were high but nothing abnormal high.
2; Toxicology reports proves she’d take a lot of alcohol but not exceptional amounts.
3: Video cameras showed her uneasy on her feet like a drunk person but she wasn’t stumbling everywhere and falling down.
4: Witneses (receptionist, Ched and his friend) at the hotel said she was very drunk but she wasn’t falling down and has some awareness. She even remembered to go back for the pizza box.

The evidence suggesting she was paralytic and not enough awareness to make a decision was
1: The girl said she’d suffered a sustained memory loss due to either being drugged on the night or excessive alcohol.
But there was no clear evidence to substantiate why she lost her memory.
2: She lost control of her water works during the night and wet the bed.
There was evidence of this but it doesn’t automatically prove that she was shit faced.

I’ve said from the beginning that she might not have been in a state where she was able give consent but it’s such a grey area and I’ve still no idea how this can be proven based on the weak evidence. Really believe that Ched was made a scapegoat/ a sacrificial lamb for the greater cause of raising awareness of the dangers of promiscuous behaviour when excessive alcohol is involved. Also the fact that he was a footballer, wealth and came across as arrogant in court (remember he said something like “why would I need to rape a defenseless girl when due to my football lifestyle women throw themselves at me offering sex on a regular basis), so some of the jury (especially the women) may have though to reach him a lesson.

It was still terrible behaviour though from all involved (Ched and the girl).
Sometimes think if you play with fire then don’t cry if you end up getting your fingers burnt, so i’m not overly sympathetic.
Apologies to some posters. Nothing more to say now about the case. Will talk about football going forward.

Agree with the vast majority of that, and well written. As you say, back to Football!

 

[BushBlade]

So how do you know it happened?

It was in Sainsbury’s.

 

[Sheff de party]

Me and my ex once had sex and neither of us could remember it.

Does that make us both rapists?

Depends on whether your ex is a man or a woman. If a woman, a woman can’t rape a man in England and Wales, they’d be charged with a serious sexual offence but not rape.

If you were in a relationship, then you (or if your ex were a man) could definitely claim you reasonably believed he/she was consenting, because you’ve had sex before and are dating. Very different to getting a text from your mate and turning up in a room to shag a girl you’ve never met.

 

[BladeInIreland]

OK I'll bite.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/42/section/1
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/42/section/74

Once a girl is drunk - and it doesn't have to be blind drunk, simply enough so that her judgement could be impaired - the definition of consent is compromised ("freedom and capacity"), which means consent may not have been given, leaving you open to 1(c) which is about your reasonable belief and you're in dangerous territory. You're into someone studying the steps you have taken (2) to make sure your belief is reasonable.
In the examples you've made, the steps that prove it; could be a girl following a "normal" sequence of acts that would lead you to believe she is consenting. I know you don't believe there is any normality in sex, so you'll maybe have trouble with this, but her going with you in a taxi after being picked up in a bar/kebab shop/etc. could apply.
Your second example clearly refers to the case and the point is he didn't take hardly any steps at all - as required by law - so proving that she was capable of consenting or that he had reasonable belief gets tricky. It's down to the subjective decision of first the CPS, then a jury.
Overall it's best not to put yourself in the position where you've reached 1(c).

P
Ok, so basically everyone who hooks up on a night out is automatically at 1(c) .
There is no normal when it comes to peoples preferences or actions in regards to sex. However I can accept it more likely an individual could repeat there own preferences/actions from person to person. So basically what eventually cleared him.

You say it's best to avoid 1(c) , I'm not sure it's realistic to expect that.

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

So how do you know it happened?

When we awoke we found the smoking gun.

Her oozing fanny.

 

[Nick Jansky]

When we awoke we found the smoking gun.

Her oozing fanny.

Lovely. Sure it was you?

 

[OldBillBlade]

To be honest, this will be my last response to you. Such a ‘brexit’ attitude you have based on your last statement. You know it’s detrimental to the harmony of the supporters but you want it, so bollocks to them.

You have your beliefs, I have mine. But I think you’ll find an overhwhelming majority of the country’s football fans would be unwilling to have Evans play for their team. It is your view that is the minority of the country, and what is a closer divide just within SUFC, based on past successes. Anyway, good luck mate, it’s a shame your pal won’t be playing for blades next season.

Another one speaking for everybody else

 

[Deaneandagana]

Think you should all focus on the football rather than past indiscretions.

I recall Wilder placing Messrs Coutts & Freeman on the transfer list shortly after his arrival - interesting to note where they now are.

As for CE, same scenario as above, let’s wait and see, football is a funny old game.

 

[Cerberus Blade]

If there’s one good thing that came out of the Ched trial, it was the learning for me, courtesy of the Feminazi, that “consent” means the woman gives you “a clear and enthusiastic YES”.

Consequently, I’ve never had sex with the wife since!

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Ched struggled in the championship before all this shit happened. Unrealistic to expect him to be up to that level now or going forward. Basically he's a L1 striker at best, no more to be said really.

 

[Cerberus Blade]

Ched struggled in the championship before all this shit happened. Unrealistic to expect him to be up to that level now or going forward. Basically he's a L1 striker at best, no more to be said really.

Honestly mate, I totally disagree.

After half a century of watching this team I think he was probably the best of any centre forward I’ve seen in a United shirt. In his final season.

He was unplayable.

I thought he was shite previous to that tbh, but credit where it’s due, he was a monster of a player in that season.

He didn’t struggle in the Championship previously either. He did very well for Norwich at that level. He’s also been good enough for Man City’s first team and his country and has played in Europe.

That’s one hell of a pedigree.

Can he do it again?

I really doubt it tbh. But he deserves a chance.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Honestly mate, I totally disagree.

After half a century of watching this team I think he was probably the best of any centre forward I’ve seen in a United shirt. In his final season.

He was unplayable.

I thought he was shite previous to that tbh, but credit where it’s due, he was a monster of a player in that season.

He didn’t struggle in the Championship previously either. He did very well for Norwich at that level. He’s also been good enough for Man City’s first team and his country and has played in Europe.

That’s one hell of a pedigree.

Can he do it again?

I really doubt it tbh. But he deserves a chance.

All about opinions pal, mine is he's done with us and it was a mistake taking him back. He never impressed for us in 2 seasons of the championship and without the baggage he's got now. Miracles don't happen i'm affraid.

 

[BladeInIreland]

Honestly mate, I totally disagree.

After half a century of watching this team I think he was probably the best of any centre forward I’ve seen in a United shirt. In his final season.

He was unplayable.

I thought he was shite previous to that tbh, but credit where it’s due, he was a monster of a player in that season.

He didn’t struggle in the Championship previously either. He did very well for Norwich at that level. He’s also been good enough for Man City’s first team and his country and has played in Europe.

That’s one hell of a pedigree.

Can he do it again?

I really doubt it tbh. But he deserves a chance.

I would agree with most of that, not sure about being our best but certainly up there.
To add to your point, I think he finished our top scorer in the championship? Not a great return but I remember the general opinion being if he gets a chance in a team that plays good football he will do well. Prior to Wilson we had played shocking football for a few seasons. As soon as we changed that Ched was in his element and was smashing them in. As you say he was unplayable. No striker has come close since.

 

[Revolution]

He didn’t struggle in the Championship previously either. He did very well for Norwich at that level.

You've clearly blocked out August 2009 to May 2011.

 

[Hamburg Blade]

P
Ok, so basically everyone who hooks up on a night out is automatically at 1(c) .
There is no normal when it comes to peoples preferences or actions in regards to sex. However I can accept it more likely an individual could repeat there own preferences/actions from person to person. So basically what eventually cleared him.

You say it's best to avoid 1(c) , I'm not sure it's realistic to expect that.

You're mixing up what happened in the trial regarding sexual preferences - which may have been what got him off - and what the law is saying about steps taken, where "normal" could come in to play before sex takes place. I also think you are over-imagining how many people this affects. It's only a small percentage of people who rely on a drink and drug fuelled night out to get a stranger, or someone they're not in a relationship with, in to bed. Plenty of people get together but don't shag on the first night - alcohol can actually inhibit that.
However, I think far too many young men are unaware of what the law says and if they have sex with a drunk girl without knowing anything about her, probably not knowing how she got into that state, then they are painting a target on their backs. "She was pissed and in a nightclub" alone is not enough and falls into victim blaming territory. If you think about it, the law can't be any different, but hopefully common sense will prevail in court (which is where I think a jury system is vital).

 

[JJ Sefton]

I can't believe we're still talking about this.

 

[Jersey Joe]

I was in London last weekend so went to the Charlton Fleetwood game. I know you can't judge on one game but I thought Ched looked poor.
If he was going to get back in our side you'd expect him to stand out at that level and he just didn't.

 

[Tom Bott]

Fleetwood are playing Leicester tonight.

 

[Davalon]

I can't believe we're still talking about this.

It will go on longer than the fax jokes, you can guarantee it.

In fact I reckon it will still be causing division amongst Blades even when people have forgotten what Scabs were

 

[JJ Sefton]

Folk just need to move on.