Championship money

[1066blade]

Right about what? It's just rambling nonsense from Fatty. Last season Newcastle sold three players for a total of around £70m. Only one of those was English and he was the cheapest.

The reason the PL is the most watched league on the world is because it contains most of the world's best players. If it was full of English players it would be more like the championship in terms of quality. There are barely enough English players to form a decent national side.

Why would an owner from Asia or the U.S. care about where the players come from? Why pay a large fee for an English player when you can get a better one for less money from abroad?

"There are barely enough English players to form a decent national side."
And why is this? Because lots of talented young English players never get a proper chance to develop their skills, because they can't get a game because of all the foreigners at the clubs. Vicious circle.

 

[BushBlade]

"There are barely enough English players to form a decent national side."
And why is this? Because lots of talented young English players never get a proper chance to develop their skills, because they can't get a game because of all the foreigners at the clubs. Vicious circle.

No, because we're light years behind other countries in terms of coaching and development. The foreigners thing is a red herring IMO. We weren't all that in the 70s and 80s either and a 'foreign' player tended to be called McSomething or O'Something.

Compare the number of qualified coaches in the UK with Germany, for example.

 

[Booker4]

The BBC pay £60m presently for MoD highlights. You'd probably be looking at 3x that amount if you gave them carte blanche with the EFL. For them it would be the centre piece of their sports programming. Advertising and sponsorship income would follow and there would be a knock-on effect in the growth in interest of the EFL vs the PL. But as you say the biggest stumbling block would be the EFL clubs themselves, especially the ones with delusions of grandeur.......

I would imagine re EFL clubs that there is no chance of a separate deal with the likes of the BBC because they are tied up to the existing deal even though very little of the football league is shown live. The reason teams want to get into the Prem is obviously money wise its the place to be but demand to succeed often makes clubs spend more than they can afford. In that respect the FFP that is within the football league is a good idea.

 

[Blade58]

Anyone know what Championship clubs get from TV rights this coming season?

 

[Bladesway]

This is just pure, unregulated capitalism. It's how it works.

The PL money comes from the sale of TV rights, merchandising and sponsorship deals.

The EFL gets a lot less from the sale of TV rights, merchandising and sponsorship.

I've seen loads of small shops close over the last few years but no one suggests Tesco or Sainsbury should subsidise these shops, so people don't have to go to supermarkets and the high street remains vibrant.

If PL clubs are able to generate loads of money why should they have to give it to other clubs who can't generate much money?

Jesus that's a dark cynical view. It's a sport and by definition shouldn't be a business. Run like a business but surely the business of football is 92 clubs. We are the guardians of the game as the inventors of it yet we are happy to see clubs and attached communities go to the wall?

Never in my life thought I would read this from a Blade. Really disappointing.

 

[Lawrence]

The first bit is an utter bollocks statement in my opinion. For every Philip Green there are good bosses and companies who look after their employees and maintain good conditions and wages. Don't believe it, then go run your own business and tell me how easy it is.

However, sport shouldn't be connected to business. There is enough money in the Premier League alone to run all 92 clubs and keep them in profit so long as everyone shares the wealth. I've said this before, it is where socialism could/should actually work. But the self interest of the top 6 combined with the might of Sky means this will never be. Problem is every one of us has the means to bring sky to its knees. Cancel the subscription and tell them to fuck off. Don't watch the next thrilling instalment of Hull v Burnley.

It is all fine and dandy oh blaming everyone else for the worlds problems in a Corbyn type way, but turn off sky and then you can truly say you have done your bit.

Agree bladesway, I have done my bit and switch off Sky and would love to see it crash and burn, but like you say we have loads of armchair football fans who will keep on feeding Sky

 

[Sheffsteel]

Anyone know what Championship clubs get from TV rights this coming season?

There's 2 lots of payments.

The TV money from Sky.
There's a basic minimum amournt paid to all clubs then an additional amount to clubs that are chosen for the live match with the bulk going to the home club.

Then there's the PL solidarity payment.
The PL are so rich that they volunteer to give some of their riches to all the clubs in the EFL.

In both cases above Championship clubs get for more than league 1 clubs.
Cant find the exact figures but I reckon league 1 clubs earn payments totalling £500K whereas Championship clubs earn about £7 million. So it was essentiall we got promoted, our finances are now much much better.

 

[I should coco]

There's 2 lots of payments.

The TV money from Sky.

I think last season it averaged out at about £4m each, but as Sheffsteel says, it depends how many times you are on. I think DirtyLeeds get the most and we should be somewhere in the middle, hence around £4m.

Then there's the PL solidarity payment.

I had the misfortune to listen to Gough and the Peterboro' chuff yesterday on TalkBloke. They said it was £2.6m for Championship clubs, against £360k for L1.

Goughy is an idiot though and kept trotting out how the wonderful Premier League 'put £1bn into the lower leagues'. This sound amazingly generous until you understand that the vast bulk of this is parachute payments for relegated clubs.

 

[BushBlade]

Jesus that's a dark cynical view. It's a sport and by definition shouldn't be a business. Run like a business but surely the business of football is 92 clubs. We are the guardians of the game as the inventors of it yet we are happy to see clubs and attached communities go to the wall?

Never in my life thought I would read this from a Blade. Really disappointing.

Clubs have always gone to the wall though. Leeds City, Bradford Park Avenue etc. I heard the chairman of Accrington Stanley moaning about this but the reality is they get really low attendances, almost too low to sustain league football. They do really well and are a fantastic example of how to run a successful club on a tiny budget.

But if the PL doubled its payments to the EFL, the EFL clubs would just pay players more. And the badly run ones would still struggle and the well run ones would still punch above their weight. And the supporters of lower league clubs would watch their players turn up in Range Rovers and Aston Martins and think 'we're losing touch with the game, we don't identify with our players anymore'.

I don't really understand how we are 'guardians of the game' anymore than we're guardians of mass production or guardians of the train, we invented those too.

I was one of he few that showed sympathy to Coventry and their plight. Plenty on here said the did hope they went to the wall. Read the same about Bolton. You say you didn't expect to read this from a Blade? Why? I'm by no means the biggest proponent of capitalism, far from it. I'm quite a supporter of distribution of wealth, in real life. But football isn't real life. Personally, if we were going to find a way to take more money from the PL income, I'd rather it be in the form of tax and spent on the NHS, social services etc than be used to prop up lower league clubs that can't run themselves properly.

 

[Bladesway]

Clubs have always gone to the wall though. Leeds City, Bradford Park Avenue etc. I heard the chairman of Accrington Stanley moaning about this but the reality is they get really low attendances, almost too low to sustain league football. They do really well and are a fantastic example of how to run a successful club on a tiny budget.

But if the PL doubled its payments to the EFL, the EFL clubs would just pay players more. And the badly run ones would still struggle and the well run ones would still punch above their weight. And the supporters of lower league clubs would watch their players turn up in Range Rovers and Aston Martins and think 'we're losing touch with the game, we don't identify with our players anymore'.

I don't really understand how we are 'guardians of the game' anymore than we're guardians of mass production or guardians of the train, we invented those too.

I was one of he few that showed sympathy to Coventry and their plight. Plenty on here said the did hope they went to the wall. Read the same about Bolton. You say you didn't expect to read this from a Blade? Why? I'm by no means the biggest proponent of capitalism, far from it. I'm quite a supporter of distribution of wealth, in real life. But football isn't real life. Personally, if we were going to find a way to take more money from the PL income, I'd rather it be in the form of tax and spent on the NHS, social services etc than be used to prop up lower league clubs that can't run themselves properly.

But if the wages were capped (forget the sky is falling in bollocks about players going elsewhere the benefits would be as follow)

1) There would be more money to go around.
2) We could support 92 well managed clubs.
3) English players would get more game time at the top level, this would benefit the national team
4) More money could go into getting more coaches and thus enhance grass roots quality
5) There wouldn't be the same dash to sign 15 year old boys for ridiculous fees
6) Agents wouldn't be able to claim as big a slice of the pie
7) Wages would be more balanced rather than totally lopsided
8) The gulf between the top division and the next division wouldn't be so big because the financial differential wouldn't be prohibitive

Those are off the top of my head. Not all the above benefits are just through putting more money through the game, there are initiatives such as wage capping that would be required to support this. I also don't have any issue with teams like Man United and Liverpool being bigger because they have bigger grounds/fan bases etc. These are facts of life. Hence teams like Rochdale, Oldham and Bury will never compete. But if we put more money through the infrastructure responsibly (this requires root and branch change within the game by the way) then it doesn't mean the small clubs are clinging on by their fingertips quite so badly.

Your comment about clubs always going to the wall is correct and if you put the infrastructure for more support in place any club going to the wall would be more heavily punished. I would send them to the very bottom level of the game. Screw 15 points, do what they did to Rangers in Scotland and worse.

Right now, greed is feeding greed. Greed to be in the top 6, greed for the benefits of Champions Leagues Football. Greed to stay up. Greed to go up. None of it is about winning your league for the pride of winning it any longer, it is about the revenue it brings. I don't remember it being about this when I watched as a youngster. Yes, money mattered but winning a cup was important to everyone. I remember Liverpool winning the Milk Cup and still pushing in Europe and winning the league. I remember Liverpool and Forest battling for the title, the cups, Europe, all for the pride of being the best. That has gone and according to some we should just suck that up as the price of modern day football. I don't because I believe it could/should be better. Football should be a sport to be watched by all. Not on the TV but in person. Doesn't matter whether you are Northampton or Man United. You should still matter and your results should still matter.

Why am I sad comments like yours come from a Blade (and it is nothing personal as I don't know you). I always thought (perhaps naive on my part) our fans didn't buy the whole "Market forces" bollocks. I always thought of us as fans that railed against business first and fuck the little guy. Yes, I want to go back to a bygone era because it was better to support a team and a sport rather than revenue streams and marketing departments. I do that 9-5, Monday-Friday I want sport to be the stuff of dreams. Dreams anyone can have not just a chosen few.

 

[BushBlade]

But if the wages were capped (forget the sky is falling in bollocks about players going elsewhere the benefits would be as follow)

1) There would be more money to go around.
2) We could support 92 well managed clubs.
3) English players would get more game time at the top level, this would benefit the national team
4) More money could go into getting more coaches and thus enhance grass roots quality
5) There wouldn't be the same dash to sign 15 year old boys for ridiculous fees
6) Agents wouldn't be able to claim as big a slice of the pie
7) Wages would be more balanced rather than totally lopsided
8) The gulf between the top division and the next division wouldn't be so big because the financial differential wouldn't be prohibitive

Those are off the top of my head. Not all the above benefits are just through putting more money through the game, there are initiatives such as wage capping that would be required to support this. I also don't have any issue with teams like Man United and Liverpool being bigger because they have bigger grounds/fan bases etc. These are facts of life. Hence teams like Rochdale, Oldham and Bury will never compete. But if we put more money through the infrastructure responsibly (this requires root and branch change within the game by the way) then it doesn't mean the small clubs are clinging on by their fingertips quite so badly.

Your comment about clubs always going to the wall is correct and if you put the infrastructure for more support in place any club going to the wall would be more heavily punished. I would send them to the very bottom level of the game. Screw 15 points, do what they did to Rangers in Scotland and worse.

Right now, greed is feeding greed. Greed to be in the top 6, greed for the benefits of Champions Leagues Football. Greed to stay up. Greed to go up. None of it is about winning your league for the pride of winning it any longer, it is about the revenue it brings. I don't remember it being about this when I watched as a youngster. Yes, money mattered but winning a cup was important to everyone. I remember Liverpool winning the Milk Cup and still pushing in Europe and winning the league. I remember Liverpool and Forest battling for the title, the cups, Europe, all for the pride of being the best. That has gone and according to some we should just suck that up as the price of modern day football. I don't because I believe it could/should be better. Football should be a sport to be watched by all. Not on the TV but in person. Doesn't matter whether you are Northampton or Man United. You should still matter and your results should still matter.

Why am I sad comments like yours come from a Blade (and it is nothing personal as I don't know you). I always thought (perhaps naive on my part) our fans didn't buy the whole "Market forces" bollocks. I always thought of us as fans that railed against business first and fuck the little guy. Yes, I want to go back to a bygone era because it was better to support a team and a sport rather than revenue streams and marketing departments. I do that 9-5, Monday-Friday I want sport to be the stuff of dreams. Dreams anyone can have not just a chosen few.

Great post. The problem with the wage cap is that we operate in a global economy. So all countries would have to operate one. Otherwise, the best players will go elsewhere and the standard will fall. And the foreign supporters will switch to the Chinese League, the Indian League, la liga, whoever pays the most.

Which is why the PL won't change unless it has to. And it won't be required to because it's actually bringing money into our economy. It's a successful product we export all over the world.

I not a supporter of unregulated capitalism, far from it. Never voted Tory in my life. But it's been thrust on me by those that did. So, if that's the world I have to live in, I'm going to make the best of it. And I do the same with football. I watched the Madrid derby last night, it was great. I watch the PL, sometimes the games are fantastic, sometimes not so. I also watch non league on BT and I'm happy for my money to go to those clubs, as well as big clubs.

 

[Bladesway]

Great post. The problem with the wage cap is that we operate in a global economy. So all countries would have to operate one. Otherwise, the best players will go elsewhere and the standard will fall. And the foreign supporters will switch to the Chinese League, the Indian League, la liga, whoever pays the most.

Which is why the PL won't change unless it has to. And it won't be required to because it's actually bringing money into our economy. It's a successful product we export all over the world.

I not a supporter of unregulated capitalism, far from it. Never voted Tory in my life. But it's been thrust on me by those that did. So, if that's the world I have to live in, I'm going to make the best of it. And I do the same with football. I watched the Madrid derby last night, it was great. I watch the PL, sometimes the games are fantastic, sometimes not so. I also watch non league on BT and I'm happy for my money to go to those clubs, as well as big clubs.

Good debate and its good to engage without it descending into insults. But what happens when we merge Sheffield United and Sheffield Wednesday into Sheffield Red & Blues? Is that the step too far? The only way Sheffield can succeed in the modern game is to push our teams together, get 70,000 stadium and we will win the 2035 cup of soccer global greatness (or whatever it becomes). Our history will have diminished to nothing, our national team still not won a world cup, or a European championship (if we are allowed in of course).

It is where it is now and perhaps some can accept that. But where the hell does it stop? Kyle Walker getting paid £12,000,000 per week by some Indian Premiership side who we have drafted into the Champions League? It doesn't keep me awake at night but it is another chip off the block that makes me that bit more cynical about the game that I used to love. I don't love it any more.

 

[BushBlade]

Good debate and its good to engage without it descending into insults. But what happens when we merge Sheffield United and Sheffield Wednesday into Sheffield Red & Blues? Is that the step too far? The only way Sheffield can succeed in the modern game is to push our teams together, get 70,000 stadium and we will win the 2035 cup of soccer global greatness (or whatever it becomes). Our history will have diminished to nothing, our national team still not won a world cup, or a European championship (if we are allowed in of course).

It is where it is now and perhaps some can accept that. But where the hell does it stop? Kyle Walker getting paid £12,000,000 per week by some Indian Premiership side who we have drafted into the Champions League? It doesn't keep me awake at night but it is another chip off the block that makes me that bit more cynical about the game that I used to love. I don't any more.

I think history indicates that it will all come crashing down at some point. Nothing lasts forever. A merger is unlikely because if you ask most Blades or Pigs 'would you rather be successful and play in the PL by merging with our rivals or retain your identity?' they'd choose the latter. And the reply would be 'merge so that we can be a one club city like Leeds or Newcastle? Tha can bollocks, thee'.

 

[JohnGannonsPerm]

One of the problems I see with the PL way of doing things is that they are over the moon at bagging an ever increasing fortune from TV but don't really use it to improve the 'product'. By and large, all they actually do is pay the same players more money. I do think that there is a degree of sense in the wage cap. I happened to be involved in a situation regarding the NRL in Oz a few years ago who have a wage cap and got to see the inner workings. Clubs there are allowed to break the cap where the player coming in to the league can be proved to be 'world class' and in important addition to the league. Hopefully they could use some of the cash they save on replacing the likes of me coaching kids and get some proper ones in!

 

[I should coco]

But what happens when we merge Sheffield United and Sheffield Wednesday into Sheffield Red & Blues?

I'd stop going.

Along with 20,000 other Blades.

Is that the step too far?

Surprised you need to ask.

The only way Sheffield can succeed in the modern game is to push our teams together, get 70,000 stadium and we will win the 2035 cup of soccer global greatness (or whatever it becomes).

So why would we want 'success' then.

I'm being serious. It's not all about some glitzy sponsored trophy. It really isn't.

 

[Bladesway]

So why would we want 'success' then.

I'm being serious. It's not all about some glitzy sponsored trophy. It really isn't.

You get where I am at then. When is enough enough?

 

[oldblade]

Alice...Who the fuk is Alice.....

Bloody predictive text. Meant to say 'alive' but perhaps I might be a transvestite when I'm old and ready to pop mi clogs, and calling mi sen Alice after all.

I thought you meant Alice, when she's 10 feet tall (as per Jefferson Airplane in the song White Rabbit)

 

[Gimli]

The premier league is an unattractive proposition and I would be more than happy if they all went and formed their own little special league for all the big fat cats in Europe. It's actually quite depressing that teams scramble amongst themselves spending money they don't have to get to the 'promised land' of the premier league - great prize, struggling week after week to compete to try and finish 17th. What's the point? It would bore me senseless to see us become like Stoke, I know some would say it's madness to not want to get as high up the leagues as possible but I genuinely would be happy if we stayed in the championship for the rest of our existence.

 

[Sharrow Snuff Mill]

The premier league is an unattractive proposition and I would be more than happy if they all went and formed their own little special league for all the big fat cats in Europe. It's actually quite depressing that teams scramble amongst themselves spending money they don't have to get to the 'promised land' of the premier league - great prize, struggling week after week to compete to try and finish 17th. What's the point? It would bore me senseless to see us become like Stoke, I know some would say it's madness to not want to get as high up the leagues as possible but I genuinely would be happy if we stayed in the championship for the rest of our existence.

You are not going to be happy after next season then !

 

[JohnGannonsPerm]

It's actually quite depressing that teams scramble amongst themselves spending money they don't have to get to the 'promised land' of the premier league - great prize, struggling week after week to compete to try and finish 17th. What's the point

It's like when Lucy Pinder used to keep her nipples covered in the daily star and everyone (possibly just me) was praying for the big reveal.... and then the day came and it was all a bit meh and wished I'd have just stuck to the Dearne Valley Weekender

 

[Lawrence]

The premier league is an unattractive proposition and I would be more than happy if they all went and formed their own little special league for all the big fat cats in Europe. It's actually quite depressing that teams scramble amongst themselves spending money they don't have to get to the 'promised land' of the premier league - great prize, struggling week after week to compete to try and finish 17th. What's the point? It would bore me senseless to see us become like Stoke, I know some would say it's madness to not want to get as high up the leagues as possible but I genuinely would be happy if we stayed in the championship for the rest of our existence.

Great post and I'm with you, BUT if we are in the championship play off final next year, I'm pretty sure we would all want us to get promotion! I watched Real Madrid and Athletico Madrid (champions League) and have just finished watching manure win Celta Vigo and to be honest I wasn't really impressed, undoubtedly the skill factor is so good, but the gamesmanship by all 4 teams was shockingly scary and unsportsmanlike, falling over, play acting, faking injury, theatrical acrobatics to gain an advantage, basically cheating! and all for the money not for the sport this is because the money is so important, more important than the football.

 

[Gimli]

Great post and I'm with you, BUT if we are in the championship play off final next year, I'm pretty sure we would all want us to get promotion! I watched Real Madrid and Athletico Madrid (champions League) and have just finished watching manure win Celta Vigo and to be honest I wasn't really impressed, undoubtedly the skill factor is so good, but the gamesmanship by all 4 teams was shockingly scary and unsportsmanlike, falling over, play acting, faking injury, theatrical acrobatics to gain an advantage, basically cheating! and all for the money not for the sport this is because the money is so important, more important than the football.

Have a like.

Edit - yes I admit that I would definitely cheer us on in the play off final should we get there any time.