Bye Bye Big Six

[metalblade]

If the discussions are successfully concluded, the European Premier League would effectively usurp UEFA's Champions League competition, which has been a mainstay of the continent's football calendar for decades.

How is this not about clearing off into a TV run competition?
UEFA's Champions League competition will remain until at least 2024, the big 6 want this new FIFA backed league to start in 2022 how are the going to fulfil there fixtures in the Premier League or the existing European competitions without fielding B teams.
Make no mistake this is another American style money grab by not just Man Utd & Liverpool but the top clubs from around Europe there will be no qualification or relegation it is another closed shop idea on a Europe wide scale with SKy waiting to fund it, much like what Kerry Packer and his Australian Channel 9 did with cricket.
Let them go and ban them from returning when it gets boring .................. players and clubs.

 

[diode_blade]

If the discussions are successfully concluded, the European Premier League would effectively usurp UEFA's Champions League competition, which has been a mainstay of the continent's football calendar for decades.

How is this not about clearing off into a TV run competition?
UEFA's Champions League competition will remain until at least 2024, the big 6 want this new FIFA backed league to start in 2022 how are the going to fulfil there fixtures in the Premier League or the existing European competitions without fielding B teams.
Make no mistake this is another American style money grab by not just Man Utd & Liverpool but the top clubs from around Europe there will be no qualification or relegation it is another closed shop idea on a Europe wide scale with SKy waiting to fund it, much like what Kerry Packer and his Australian Channel 9 did with cricket.
Let them go and ban them from returning when it gets boring .................. players and clubs.

Make them start if they have to come back when it all fails in lowest league tier of their area.

 

[blade too long]

Money may talk . But if say arsenal man city are denied the opportunity of the new euro league which will take away 150m a year from them and drop to say 50m from a new Quest and ch4 deal for the now 2nd tier prem they would undoubtedly take action against those leaving them stripped of what they enjoy now

They would vote against any B team adding to the new euro top 20 taking even more money away from those left

If sky and BT throw their weight behind euro league money disappears
If they don't get it they will severely cut funding as they will see the prem as second tier to euroleague and offer championship level funding

No problem for us as we can live on scraps
But long standing prem teams have players on huge wages on 3 or 4 year contracts.
If their tv money is slashed in 2022 they will be in grave danger

 

[Gimli]

The plan is not to clear off, which the vast majority of posts have been about. I'm not sure how you work out that people know they aren't doing when that's what they're saying.
If, at some point in the future that comes about, that will be a new proposal for then. At the moment, that is not what's being talked about. It's an irrelevant point because it won't be happening if this goes ahead. The leaked plan is actually worse, because they will stay but become unstoppable in domestic competitions.

Agree, the plan isn’t to clear off.

Yet...

The bottom line is that the owners of these teams will be looking at the money first and foremost - and whichever competition gets stitched together will be with maximising profits at the centre.

Maybe the owners of the English clubs will see there is more to be made by eventually leaving the premier league - we’ll see I guess.

Either way it’s not a good reflection on the owners of these clubs - to me it’s the start of a slippery slope which will take us away from football as many of us remember - the game we fell in love with.

 

[bypassblade]

In all honesty if it happened it would be best thing ever, but if they leave they are banned sine die, it would put the league on a more level footing and who knows we could one day see such as Newcastle as Champions or Blades be better than same thing year after year.

 

[trevorhockey]

Agree more of a even field for the rest of us

 

[Hamburg Blade]

Agree, the plan isn’t to clear off.

Yet...

The bottom line is that the owners of these teams will be looking at the money first and foremost - and whichever competition gets stitched together will be with maximising profits at the centre.

Maybe the owners of the English clubs will see there is more to be made by eventually leaving the premier league - we’ll see I guess.

Either way it’s not a good reflection on the owners of these clubs - to me it’s the start of a slippery slope which will take us away from football as many of us remember - the game we fell in love with.

If the plan was for them to clear off, it wouldn't actually be as bad. I don't think they should, I think the answer to an imbalanced PL is to look at ways to balance it, not take clubs out of it. But the plan as it appears to be, granted we've only had a few leaked details, would increase the imbalance as the clubs at the top get even more, coupled with various changes to accomodate the new league which will leave the rest of us with fewer games and at least one less cup competition. To be honest I don't see how it can work anyway, but no, it doesn't reflect well on the clubs involved.

 

[Bartleby]

What with VAR ruining all the enjoyment, the way the game has turned into a theatre for diving and cheating, not being able to go to games, and now shit like this - I am struggling to give a shiny shit about football at the moment. It has nothing to do with our fortunes on the pitch and our position in the league, I think I'd feel exactly the same if we were second and had just tonked Liverpool 7-2

edit: actually I would prefer the league not to be split and the big 6 leave tbh, I'd miss seeing the likes of Man U down at the Lane

 

[CornwallBlade]

I don't care much for this or the Prem. Much prefer the Championship.

You know, I'm feeling the same way. Yes I know the PL has all the "stars" and the cash but for exciting football, played with a degree of physical contact and the largely absent cheating, diving gits that populate the PL, I look back fondly to the atmosphere and matchday experience of the Championship. Don't get me wrong, I love us having the kudos of being in the top flight but the rest of it is gash.

 

[CornwallBlade]

It's just a money making machine! Without promotion or relegation it will soon go stale.
The American influence is obviouse with this as there sports leagues tend to be run this way
English and european fans wont buy this in my opinion,we are steeped in promotion and relegation battles and long may this continue.
Happy to see the Blades play traditional clubs without jetting all over europe.
Europeans especially British fans enjoy the rivalries thrown up in the domestic leagues.
That's real football competition with of course a structure built in to stop wages getting out of hand

The Yanks will introduce a draft system as per the NFL, that way everyone gets a franchise that has a chance each year so it keeps things fresh. It will be the sad end of some great football institutions but if they are so greedy and disparaging of our sporting history and want it I for one would be delighted to see them all fuck off and leave the rest of us to get our game back.

 

[CornwallBlade]

After a few seasons to see how things pan out, then this could become a separate league. There is also the lure of South and Central American teams to try a similar idea
and expand competition. Only needs money.

This - it would be naïve in the extreme to think that the Euro Super League would be the end of their plans.

 

[CornwallBlade]

Money may talk . But if say arsenal man city are denied the opportunity of the new euro league which will take away 150m a year from them and drop to say 50m from a new Quest and ch4 deal for the now 2nd tier prem they would undoubtedly take action against those leaving them stripped of what they enjoy now

They would vote against any B team adding to the new euro top 20 taking even more money away from those left

If sky and BT throw their weight behind euro league money disappears
If they don't get it they will severely cut funding as they will see the prem as second tier to euroleague and offer championship level funding

No problem for us as we can live on scraps
But long standing prem teams have players on huge wages on 3 or 4 year contracts.
If their tv money is slashed in 2022 they will be in grave danger

I really don't see what the problem is with that. The whole of football at PL level has been ruined by TV money and is now totally bent at the knee to satisfy the whims of those behind this single revenue channel. It was fine, for a domestic market, before SKY and I would be quite happy to see it return. The frankly obscene salaries being paid are wholly dependent on TV and I'm sure that, without it, there will be no shortage of highly skilled players more than happy to lace their boots on for £500k p.a.

 

[CarlMcBlade]

Its supposed to be a replacement for the Champions League not the Premier League
If you dont have to qualify for this European Super League through league position what is the point in them competing in the Premier League as they could finish 9th or 10th and it would not matter
Doesnt make any sense whatsoever they should just fuck off

Also where’s the incentive for everybody else? Teams knocking on the Champions League door like Leicester, Everton and maybe one day....us. You can’t take away hope for other teams

 

[blade too long]

I really don't see what the problem is with that. The whole of football at PL level has been ruined by TV money and is now totally bent at the knee to satisfy the whims of those behind this single revenue channel. It was fine, for a domestic market, before SKY and I would be quite happy to see it return. The frankly obscene salaries being paid are wholly dependent on TV and I'm sure that, without it, there will be no shortage of highly skilled players more than happy to lace their boots on for £500k p.a.

I agree it is a possible way to ease the over paying of players .But those chosen for Europe's new league will probably be on even more money
To me European football was spoilt when it was no longer only champions in the European cup. These group stages bore the crap out of me.
Straight knock out was far better

 

[Hamburg Blade]

Money may talk . But if say arsenal man city are denied the opportunity of the new euro league which will take away 150m a year from them and drop to say 50m from a new Quest and ch4 deal for the now 2nd tier prem they would undoubtedly take action against those leaving them stripped of what they enjoy now

They would vote against any B team adding to the new euro top 20 taking even more money away from those left

If sky and BT throw their weight behind euro league money disappears
If they don't get it they will severely cut funding as they will see the prem as second tier to euroleague and offer championship level funding

No problem for us as we can live on scraps
But long standing prem teams have players on huge wages on 3 or 4 year contracts.
If their tv money is slashed in 2022 they will be in grave danger

I agree with some of what you're saying - just to say that this isn't what you were saying before, you've "moved the goalposts" as they say. With regards to B teams, I'm not sure what you think could happen, but there wouldn't be any B teams in the PL. If they bring in B teams they will enter the lower divisions and more than likely, as happens in Germany, if a B team wins promotion, that promotion is denied if the A team is in the higher division.
They're never going to have Man Utd A and Man Utd B both playing in the PL.
What they will want is enlarged squads, allowing them to rotate better with so many added fixtures. This could easily get voted through because it also benefits large clubs not invited into the new Super League. The Super League teams will put out a de facto B team, saving their best players for the Super League games. The big teams left behind will need to cement themselves at the top of the PL and to do that against the Super League teams it will help them if they know they are going up against their weaker squad players, whilst having a large squad to select from.

I actually doubt whether the TV money for the PL will drop that much. The new Super League would be a global product and Sky / BT are not global. They would bid for the UK rights and would likely offer it as an add on subscription to their package. I can see it offered as PPV. The UK rights to show the Super League may not cost that much - as it will largely only be the fans of the clubs involved that deem it a must have. The money making potential lies in countries like Japan, the USA, China, etc.
Sky / BT would worry that losing the PL rights could see them lose a vast chunk of their subscribers, who, for example, would be happy to cancel Sky and miss out on the Super League, saving a load of money by watching PL matches on ITV for free.
There will only be a few big spending teams "in grave danger" and they will simply off-load their highest earners to the new Super League teams.

Ultimately what fans don't want to see is something like this being successful, so they come up with all sorts of doom scenarios where the whole thing is a disaster. Unfortunately it will probably work very well - certainly from a financial point of view and certainly in the eyes of many global fans*, who considerably outnumber the home fans of the clubs affected. The victim is the game as we know it in England.

*fans in the sense of TV football viewers who just want to see big games all the time.

 

[Hamburg Blade]

I really don't see what the problem is with that. The whole of football at PL level has been ruined by TV money and is now totally bent at the knee to satisfy the whims of those behind this single revenue channel. It was fine, for a domestic market, before SKY and I would be quite happy to see it return. The frankly obscene salaries being paid are wholly dependent on TV and I'm sure that, without it, there will be no shortage of highly skilled players more than happy to lace their boots on for £500k p.a.

Except that it works. "Ruined" is very subjective and despite it being a go-to phrase for any football fan who wants to show he's a real fan, the stadia are full, Sky / BT etc make a profit on their expensive rights deals, the PL never looks to be in financial difficulties and every club is desperate to be a member of it. The ones who aren't happy are fans like us whose clubs can't compete financially with long-established PL teams because it's created a gulf in the finances. But fans are never happy unless their team is winning everything (as we're seeing at the moment) and the PL / UEFA / FIFA only give lip-service to the goal of making fans happy - what they see is the balance sheet, full stadia, top quality TV coverage and a sport that is head and shoulders above any other in terms of popularity.
They are only ever going to be spurned on by this to continue down the same route. The PL and UEFA may do everything they can to block this development, but their own development is likely to be a watered down version of the same. It's not going to go back to how it was before.

 

[blade too long]

I agree with some of what you're saying - just to say that this isn't what you were saying before, you've "moved the goalposts" as they say. With regards to B teams, I'm not sure what you think could happen, but there wouldn't be any B teams in the PL. If they bring in B teams they will enter the lower divisions and more than likely, as happens in Germany, if a B team wins promotion, that promotion is denied if the A team is in the higher division.
They're never going to have Man Utd A and Man Utd B both playing in the PL.
What they will want is enlarged squads, allowing them to rotate better with so many added fixtures. This could easily get voted through because it also benefits large clubs not invited into the new Super League. The Super League teams will put out a de facto B team, saving their best players for the Super League games. The big teams left behind will need to cement themselves at the top of the PL and to do that against the Super League teams it will help them if they know they are going up against their weaker squad players, whilst having a large squad to select from.

I actually doubt whether the TV money for the PL will drop that much. The new Super League would be a global product and Sky / BT are not global. They would bid for the UK rights and would likely offer it as an add on subscription to their package. I can see it offered as PPV. The UK rights to show the Super League may not cost that much - as it will largely only be the fans of the clubs involved that deem it a must have. The money making potential lies in countries like Japan, the USA, China, etc.
Sky / BT would worry that losing the PL rights could see them lose a vast chunk of their subscribers, who, for example, would be happy to cancel Sky and miss out on the Super League, saving a load of money by watching PL matches on ITV for free.

If the biggest 4 draws in the prem leave to join the league andarent allowed in the prem then sky will lose the 16 highest
Value games in the current set up
If a global player gets these sky will lose
The cream and just be flogging the remaining milk.
Plastics will all move on blink to Bein or canal plus or whoever gets it
The product won't attract those who only watch the top

 

[Hamburg Blade]

If the biggest 4 draws in the prem leave to join the league andarent allowed in the prem then sky will lose the 16 highest
Value games in the current set up
If a global player gets these sky will lose
The cream and just be flogging the remaining milk.
Plastics will all move on blink to Bein or canal plus or whoever gets it
The product won't attract those who only watch the top

There isn't a plan for any clubs to leave the PL.

 

[blade too long]

There isn't a plan for any clubs to leave the PL.

Well when will they play 34 prem games and 34 Europe league games and still take 4 international weeks off and at an fa cup run
Any international player may play80 games a season

 

[Hamburg Blade]

Well when will they play 34 prem games and 34 Europe league games and still take 4 international weeks off and at an fa cup run
Any international player may play80 games a season

I've no idea, it's not my plan. That's why there's an assumption that they will want enlarged squads and ultimately will play their lesser players in PL games against the likes of us. It's why there's a suggestion that this plan will mean a reduction in the size of the PL.

 

[blade too long]

I've no idea, it's not my plan. That's why there's an assumption that they will want enlarged squads and ultimately will play their lesser players in PL games against the likes of us. It's why there's a suggestion that this plan will mean a reduction in the size of the PL.

But tv wants the break away super league and will probably want 18 or even 20 which will mean more games therefore more money. But this means as you put the prem would get B teams. A utterly diluted product

Will the super league want Saturday and Sunday games

With fixture clashes which will get priority

If we have a snowy winter and lose 8 weeks or a covid shut down for that time
Will leave 16 games needing re arranging . Be absolute chaos

So B teams would be the only solution for logistics

But if say Arsenal don't get in the super league ...wins the title there's no reward of Europe except Europa league . What a bag of bollocks that is

 

[CornwallBlade]

Except that it works. "Ruined" is very subjective and despite it being a go-to phrase for any football fan who wants to show he's a real fan, the stadia are full, Sky / BT etc make a profit on their expensive rights deals, the PL never looks to be in financial difficulties and every club is desperate to be a member of it. The ones who aren't happy are fans like us whose clubs can't compete financially with long-established PL teams because it's created a gulf in the finances. But fans are never happy unless their team is winning everything (as we're seeing at the moment) and the PL / UEFA / FIFA only give lip-service to the goal of making fans happy - what they see is the balance sheet, full stadia, top quality TV coverage and a sport that is head and shoulders above any other in terms of popularity.
They are only ever going to be spurned on by this to continue down the same route. The PL and UEFA may do everything they can to block this development, but their own development is likely to be a watered down version of the same. It's not going to go back to how it was before.

Actually my issue has nothing to do with the relative status of Sheffield United. It’s entirely based on the fact that the whole tiered league system is largely redundant. The majority have absolutely no chance of ever getting to the PL or wining a trophy. What a rubbish state of affairs for our national game. We used to scoff at Scottish football because you knew, before a ball was kicked, only 2 teams would be capable of winning the league. The same now applies to the PL. If your idea of entertainment is seeing the favourites win every race bar the the very rare occasional upset and you’re happy, that’s fine. It’s a long long way from my idea of entertainment.

 

[davidblade]

They can’t do what they are planning because the European court will stop them as what they are try to do is stop promotion and relegation , this would brake European law as it is anticompetitive

 

[CornwallBlade]

I agree it is a possible way to ease the over paying of players .But those chosen for Europe's new league will probably be on even more money
To me European football was spoilt when it was no longer only champions in the European cup. These group stages bore the crap out of me.
Straight knock out was far better

Agree with all that BTL but that’s the knub of it. Playoffs, expanded entry to the CL/EC with preliminary stages serve a single purpose- revenue generation. For those players who want to be paid millions to take part in a circus, good luck to them. There are plenty more who could deliver a vibrant and entertaining alternative that would engage all fans. Go to a game or watch on ppv via the clubs streams, it would all still be a great offer. There is no way without SKY and a few superclubs that the domestic game would die. Let them have their SKY league and global audience- I wouldn’t pay £5 to watch it compared to following a local club, be that the Blades or nearby for me, Exeter City.

 

[Hamburg Blade]

But tv wants the break away super league and will probably want 18 or even 20 which will mean more games therefore more money. But this means as you put the prem would get B teams. A utterly diluted product

Will the super league want Saturday and Sunday games

With fixture clashes which will get priority

If we have a snowy winter and lose 8 weeks or a covid shut down for that time
Will leave 16 games needing re arranging . Be absolute chaos

So B teams would be the only solution for logistics

But if say Arsenal don't get in the super league ...wins the title there's no reward of Europe except Europa league . What a bag of bollocks that is

Where do you get that it's the TV companies that want this? Currently it's FIFA and the clubs that are pushing for it. The TV companies will bid for it if it comes about, of course, but I don't see them being either behind the idea or having a say in the format.
de facto B teams, or we should probably describe them as squad players, are inevitable in my view, in the same way that big clubs play squad players in the early rounds of cups, but it depends on how it works out as to how good or bad that is. It could well be that the extra revenue means those teams can afford so many top players that their squad players are still better than everybody else's first XIs. It could make these teams even stronger, so I think the way you talk about B teams may be missing the mark.
You can't plan for a pandemic, no matter what the situation, or even a very bad winter. I don't see how they would fit all the fixtures in, but presumably they've thought of that. Perhaps those clubs will also back out of the FA cup.
I would also imagine that if this is a FIFA creation, UEFA would still keep the Champions League going, running a parallel competition. It would miss the traditional big guns, obviously, but there would be plenty of big and famous teams left to make it an interesting tournament.

It's not something I would like to see, but as I said, just declaring it will be a disaster because fans want it to fail is just wishful thinking. They'll make it work and a lot of fans will flock to watch it.

 

[Hamburg Blade]

Actually my issue has nothing to do with the relative status of Sheffield United. It’s entirely based on the fact that the whole tiered league system is largely redundant. The majority have absolutely no chance of ever getting to the PL or wining a trophy. What a rubbish state of affairs for our national game. We used to scoff at Scottish football because you knew, before a ball was kicked, only 2 teams would be capable of winning the league. The same now applies to the PL. If your idea of entertainment is seeing the favourites win every race bar the the very rare occasional upset and you’re happy, that’s fine. It’s a long long way from my idea of entertainment.

It's not my idea of entertainment. I don't even watch the Champions League, it doesn't interest me. My point was that "ruined" is very subjective. Just as a lot of people think the league structure was ruined by the creation of the PL, or the European Cups were ruined by the creation of the Champions League, the fact is that these things are successful and loads of people watch it, pay for it, like it and would be happy with a change of format that gives them even more. This thread is full of posts saying kick them out and don't let them in when it fails. Wishful thinking, I'm afraid, it won't fail.

 

[CornwallBlade]

It's not my idea of entertainment. I don't even watch the Champions League, it doesn't interest me. My point was that "ruined" is very subjective. Just as a lot of people think the league structure was ruined by the creation of the PL, or the European Cups were ruined by the creation of the Champions League, the fact is that these things are successful and loads of people watch it, pay for it, like it and would be happy with a change of format that gives them even more. This thread is full of posts saying kick them out and don't let them in when it fails. Wishful thinking, I'm afraid, it won't fail.

Agree there, it would be huge. Let’s just hope the powers that be have the wherewithal to organise themselves in the aftermath.

 

[Bladesman]