Bournemouth..

[Grizzly blade]

This club has been mentioned by one or two at the club over the last week or so. And with the debate over what type of transfer window we should have given our new prize money I had a little look at how they went about things.

Upon promotion to the prem, in their first season they brought in 11 and moved on 10 with a net spend of roughly £37m
9 were signed at the start of the season, while 2 (Afobe and Grabban) arrived in Jan for £18m.
They ultimately finished 16th, and without going too deep the impact of the two signings in Jan could be open to debate. But their net spend that summer was around £21m.

Now I realise that Sky money and player fees have gone up a fair bit since then but I’m sure that would only have been a fraction of what they brought in.
Those who can be bothered might have the time and the inclination to find that detail out.

After that,

Season 2- £12m net spend. 9 players in, 15 out. Finished 9th.
Season 3- £30m net spend, Finished 12th
Season 4- £35m Net spend, Finished 14th

The last two seasons saw them bring fewer players in but single fees jumped with them spending £20 m on a single player each season.

These figures are rough, some reported others undisclosed so some licence has been used. But this is a model I see United following quite closely. And what is interesting is that even though spending has gone up their league position hasn’t really, which perhaps highlights the point fees and money went up.

It’s going to be fun this summer

 

[John Street West Terrace]

A good comparison that GB and highlights the change between the championship & PL It’s a fine balancing act as we undoubtedly need to strengthen for next season & that in itself brings its own problems with the increase in wages & keeping parity amongst others . Fulham went too far the other way investing heavily & lost their cohesion & spirit . An interesting summer ahead

 

[Bladeinleeds]

This club has been mentioned by one or two at the club over the last week or so. And with the debate over what type of transfer window we should have given our new prize money I had a little look at how they went about things.

Upon promotion to the prem, in their first season they brought in 11 and moved on 10 with a net spend of roughly £37m
9 were signed at the start of the season, while 2 (Afobe and Grabban) arrived in Jan for £18m.
They ultimately finished 16th, and without going too deep the impact of the two signings in Jan could be open to debate. But their net spend that summer was around £21m.

Now I realise that Sky money and player fees have gone up a fair bit since then but I’m sure that would only have been a fraction of what they brought in.
Those who can be bothered might have the time and the inclination to find that detail out.

After that,

Season 2- £12m net spend. 9 players in, 15 out. Finished 9th.
Season 3- £30m net spend, Finished 12th
Season 4- £35m Net spend, Finished 14th

The last two seasons saw them bring fewer players in but single fees jumped with them spending £20 m on a single player each season.

These figures are rough, some reported others undisclosed so some licence has been used. But this is a model I see United following quite closely. And what is interesting is that even though spending has gone up their league position hasn’t really, which perhaps highlights the point fees and money went up.

It’s going to be fun this summer

Good points made here.

That is certainly the model we should be looking it. It would be naive to think the current squad doesn’t need any improvement - but it has to be gradual imo. We can’t go straight to 20m plus fees and 80k plus in wages.

We need to be sensible so if we come back down we have the nucleus of a squad to take on the championship again. Supplement what we have and retain our identity.

My ideal would be 3/4 quality championship established players. Couple of solid loan signings we couldn’t afford and take it from there. There might be a decision to make then where we stand in January.

We don’t want to destroy the squad harmony like Fulham have done.

 

[Bladesman]

This club has been mentioned by one or two at the club over the last week or so. And with the debate over what type of transfer window we should have given our new prize money I had a little look at how they went about things.

Upon promotion to the prem, in their first season they brought in 11 and moved on 10 with a net spend of roughly £37m
9 were signed at the start of the season, while 2 (Afobe and Grabban) arrived in Jan for £18m.
They ultimately finished 16th, and without going too deep the impact of the two signings in Jan could be open to debate. But their net spend that summer was around £21m.

Now I realise that Sky money and player fees have gone up a fair bit since then but I’m sure that would only have been a fraction of what they brought in.
Those who can be bothered might have the time and the inclination to find that detail out.

After that,

Season 2- £12m net spend. 9 players in, 15 out. Finished 9th.
Season 3- £30m net spend, Finished 12th
Season 4- £35m Net spend, Finished 14th

The last two seasons saw them bring fewer players in but single fees jumped with them spending £20 m on a single player each season.

These figures are rough, some reported others undisclosed so some licence has been used. But this is a model I see United following quite closely. And what is interesting is that even though spending has gone up their league position hasn’t really, which perhaps highlights the point fees and money went up.

It’s going to be fun this summer

The more they spend the lower they finish in the league.

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

There's an article in yesterday's Guardian about Cardiff this season, and it is relevant to us for next.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/may/05/cardiff-city-neil-warnock-premier-league-relegation

 

[breeny]

I would expect about 5 or 6 out and the same in obv...

 

[Bladeinleeds]

There's an article in yesterday's Guardian about Cardiff this season, and it is relevant to us for next.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/may/05/cardiff-city-neil-warnock-premier-league-relegation

I do see the parallels about a lack of quality and having a championship squad. And it will undoubtedly be tough to stay in the league given the quality and resources on display.

Where I see the difference is that wilder is a better manager than warnock (and I say that as a warnock fan.)

Wilder has played attractive football as well as shown we can be resolute. Warnocj has been pragmatic and too reliant on not getting beat. Makes it damn near impossible to stay In The league as you just can’t win enough games. We might get tonked a few times but hopefully will be adventurous to win a few games too.

 

[BladeInIreland]

To be fair it’s very hard to compare with other clubs. Some clubs will have spent big in there promotion season, we didn’t. Some teams might have needed to strengthen less expensive areas. Whereas we probably need players in positions historically more expensive.

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

I do see the parallels about a lack of quality and having a championship squad. And it will undoubtedly be tough to stay in the league given the quality and resources on display.

Where I see the difference is that wilder is a better manager than warnock (and I say that as a warnock fan.)

Wilder has played attractive football as well as shown we can be resolute. Warnocj has been pragmatic and too reliant on not getting beat. Makes it damn near impossible to stay In The league as you just can’t win enough games. We might get tonked a few times but hopefully will be adventurous to win a few games too.

I'd agree that with CWAK, we are more progressive than NWKB, and look forward to being more expansive away from home than we were last time.

Probably obvious issues, but the lack of a proven goalscorer has done for them in the end, as the journalist says, 4 or 5 extra goals scored in the right games is the difference between relegation and safety and also their loan in of the Spaniard Camarasa who has proven to be a provider of a level of quality that they couldn't afford or attract as a permanent. Team spirit, fitness, effort and preparation are the foundations that the bricks of quality need to be placed upon.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

There's an article in yesterday's Guardian about Cardiff this season, and it is relevant to us for next.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/may/05/cardiff-city-neil-warnock-premier-league-relegation

Not watched much of cardiff but I'm pretty sure Colin will have played one up front on many occasions to 'limit the damage'.

Wilder will be a different story and a comparision to Colin pointless.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

There's an article in yesterday's Guardian about Cardiff this season, and it is relevant to us for next.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/may/05/cardiff-city-neil-warnock-premier-league-relegation

The truth is that Cardiff have spent this season playing Premier League football with a Championship squad.

I disagree with that – they’ve spent this season still playing Championship football with a Championship squad. Punching above their weight, absolutely, but the style of play is still one that at best isn’t likely to push much above the bottom 6.

We will almost certainly be in a similar boat where we will be punching above our weight with a set of players that most other clubs wouldn’t look at. Which is why if we finish 3rd bottom I don’t think I would consider it a failure in itself. I think our style and approach mean that we are better suited to staying up than Cardiff were last summer.

 

[Bladeinleeds]

I'd agree that with CWAK, we are more progressive than NWKB, and look forward to being more expansive away from home than we were last time.

Probably obvious issues, but the lack of a proven goalscorer has done for them in the end, as the journalist says, 4 or 5 extra goals scored in the right games is the difference between relegation and safety and also their loan in of the Spaniard Camarasa who has proven to be a provider of a level of quality that they couldn't afford or attract as a permanent. Team spirit, fitness, effort and preparation are the foundations that the bricks of quality need to be placed upon.

Agree, I’m not suggesting we don’t need some quality added to the squad. I’d be pleased if we added the likes of maupay to the side or took a chance on mcburrie or Adams (unlikely given the history).

But Forwards are hit and miss - especially when you create so few chances and I think that is what costs warnocks side the most. You’re reliant on a striker that can finish from nothing.

Wilder has shown ‘journeymen’ can thrive given the right service.... He got seasons of their careers from aging players like mcgoldrick, sharp and Leon last year. And has never been reliant on just one of them all season. Fingers crossed he can do similar again....

I’d love sharp to chip in with 10 plus just as a finisher in the prem.

 

[Withington Blade]

Since promotion Bournemouth seem to have operated a sensible model, i.e. hire a good manager, good scouting network, spend a reasonable proportion of the annual TV income on transfers/wages whilst trying to upgrade the quality of their playing staff year-on-year without breaking the bank. Even though they are trying to operate sensibly I read somewhere that their wage bill has increased significantly this year and is now starting to look out of kilter with their income, hardly surprising given they only get 14,000 through the gates. It shows how hard it is to operate at this level. I’m sure they were also in breach of FFP the year they were promoted and got fined as a result, which again serves to remind the miracle CW and AK have worked this season when you think what we were up against budget wise.

 

[blade67]

this season we've brought in

Henderson
Egan, Johnson, Cranie,
Norwood, Dowell (Woodburn)
McGoldrick, Washington, Madine, Hogan

8 players brought in during the summer
2 added in Jan (1 swap)

I'd expect similar this summer, possible more as we will need a deeper squad in my opinion

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

But Forwards are hit and miss - especially when you create so few chances and I think that is what costs warnocks side the most. You’re reliant on a striker that can finish from nothing.

Agreed. Although i think we'll be more attacking than Cardiff, I think we will need our set pieces to yield goals next season. JOC has the ability & capability to be scoring 5 goals next season. As i'd mentioned in another thread 40 points, 40 goals scored and 60 goals conceded will keep us up. Every goal we score that doesn't come from the front one/two is a bonus.

 

[Wards]

Didn’t Bournemouth stick two fingers up to ffp the year they got promoted? Basically a shit or bust scenario if I remember.

 

[Bladeinleeds]

Agreed. Although i think we'll be more attacking than Cardiff, I think we will need our set pieces to yield goals next season. JOC has the ability & capability to be scoring 5 goals next season. As i'd mentioned in another thread 40 points, 40 goals scored and 60 goals conceded will keep us up. Every goal we score that doesn't come from the front one/two is a bonus.

Think a (potentially) underrated part of this season is just how influential Norwood delivery from set pieces and crosses had been.

Imo this quality has turned plenty of tight games on their heads and been crucial to everything we have achieved so far and the biggest difference from last year.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

QUALITY...........is what we need.

We brought in Championship quality last summer and in effect the spine of the team changed from the 1st season in the championship.

Hendo, Egan, Norwood and McG played significant parts - they were the quality we needed.

Similar applies to an even harder division - we need quality.

Certainly 1 striker up top - just have to hope West Brom take out Villa and then we try and get Abraham on loan.
BUY Bowen from Hull
Bring back Hendo as no 1 and possibly go back for Ramsdale as 2nd choice. B'Mouth played a 19 year old yesterday who may have pushed Ramsdale down the pecking order.

We don't need what/if players - we need a couple to go straight into the starting line up.

The original post about B'moth said they signed 2 forwards in the JTW - in the ideal world we should give CW the scope to have the forwards from game 1 not when we are chasing everyone else like Cardiff were where they ended up buying Sala.

Give CW the tools for August so the team can hopefully learn early lessons and then settle down.

38 games, 40 points needed.

UTB

 

[Blade56]

I would expect about 5 or 6 out and the same in obv...

More in less out. We need a squad of 25 min in PL I think

 

[John Street West Terrace]

I'd agree that with CWAK, we are more progressive than NWKB, and look forward to being more expansive away from home than we were last time.

Probably obvious issues, but the lack of a proven goalscorer has done for them in the end, as the journalist says, 4 or 5 extra goals scored in the right games is the difference between relegation and safety and also their loan in of the Spaniard Camarasa who has proven to be a provider of a level of quality that they couldn't afford or attract as a permanent. Team spirit, fitness, effort and preparation are the foundations that the bricks of quality need to be placed upon.

I agree NC with a lot of the article & as I said earlier it’s fine balancing act Naging that change . Personally I think that Warnock ( who I like ) has repeated some of the same mistakes he made with us last time , as a lot have stated above he set up 4-5-1 In hope of pinching results on the back of a clean sheet they very rarely managed .
The one thing that is important on the step up to the top division is putting your chances away ,Cardiff failed to beat Huddersfield & Newcastle when-the opposition we’re down to 10 men .
We will not able to be as wasteful with chances created as we nave been a times the.last couple of seasons as they will be a lot less prevalent and this is where I feel the investment is key,
I think we have the building blocks to have a better opportunity of staying up,& establishing ourselves than on the last two visits to PL in that we retain the ball a hell of a lot better & I think we are more resilient, but we will also need to to be able our play a fast counter game something I think we lack as in a good few games we will be defending a lot deeper against the top end sides

 

[crucialkneeligaman]

Interesting advice from Pesch's missus to Norwich and us. Don't try to survive in the premier league on the cheap. " ...Bournemouth managed it four years ago......but in Eddie Howe they had a manager of remarkable ability who had no other way than to build gradually and hope for the best ". The woman obviously has no knowledge of Wilder or Sheffield United. I am sure our own remarkable management team will build gradually without throwing astronomical money at it. As for the hope for the best, not Chris Wilders style.

 

[Manuel Azaña]

What will be the difference, in financial terms, for next season as regards the courtroom battle?

Who would be the better option in the club's progression?

 

[Manuel Azaña]

The woman obviously has no knowledge of Wilder or Sheffield United.

I would like to disagree on this, purely on a positive note.
Sheffield United and Chris Wilder will have been the subject of many discussions, especially now we're back in the Premier League.

 

[blademark]

More in less out. We need a squad of 25 min in PL I think

25 is maximum in PL.

 

[8lade]

QUALITY...........is what we need.

Exactly, nothing wrong with the team today but we do need a Premiership (quality) striker to give us a shout. As regards Cardiff Warnock did his usual trick he bought 5 players for £32.5m in summer and only Murphy started 21 games and Reid 15 and the other 3 barely played, for that money you need to get it right with quality that will start.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

25 is maximum in PL.

Was about to say the same. 8 of those must also be homegrown. I think we won’t be having any issues adhering to that...

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

and there's still 5/6 of Bournemouth's Championship squad still playing regularly now.

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

QUALITY...........is what we need.

We don't need what/if players - we need a couple to go straight into the starting line up.

Give CW the tools for August so the team can hopefully learn early lessons and then settle down.

38 games, 40 points needed.

UTB

This.

 

[itsinyerblood]

Although not earth shattering in it's conclusions, the idea that we need quality over quantity to stay up should be a given. Which is not to say that it wouldn't be nice to have a squad that resonates with quality from head to toe, but it is what it is, and the money Wilder has is finite, so no stupid asks or predictions, let's see who Chris can bring in. It won't be easy, so the chase for better than average Championship players seems the obvious port of call.

And just in case it's pushed to one side, the money that Wilder, not myself, has called for to be spent on the training ground must be addressed quickly. I know there are 'master tacticians' on here who have suggested ignoring this, but purleeeze, a bit of common sense, how on earth are players expected to improve if they aren't shown reasons for doing this or that properly. It makes me wonder what they think Alan Knill actually does throughout the week?

 

[wizadry]

It’s in a couple of years time I worry, when we’re in the Champions League, having to rotate the squad, trying to keep the squad as fresh as possible.