Bloated Squad has to be addressed in January

[UnitedBlade]

We've managed to assemble a bloated squad that undoubtedly needs trimming. We currently have 32 players (29 plus 2 loanees plus 1 short-term contract). Getting rid of some must free up wages, although I'm not sure who will take the ones we should move on.

Goalkeepers (3 one on s-t contract)
Howard,
Turner (s-t)
Long

Defenders (9 one on loan)
Alcock,
Flynn
Collins
McGahey
McEveley,
McCarthy (loan)
Butler (out on loan)
Kennedy
Harris

Midfielders (14)
Campbell-Ryce
Murphy
Doyle
Wallace J
Basham
Scougall
Baxter
Reed
Davies
McGinn
Adams
Wallace K
Cuvelier
McFadzean (out on loan)

Forwards (6 two on loan)
O’Grady (loan)
McNulty
Higdon
Porter
Ironside (out on loan)
De Girolamo (out on loan)

Clough has a minimum of 9 players to consider but you could argue it should be more.

Decisions to make:
GK (everyone except Howard)

Defenders: Collins, McCarthy, Butler

Midfielders: McGinn, McFadzean

Forwards: Porter, Ironside and hopefully extend O’Grady loan

 

[UnitedBlade]

Forgot Butler at Donny and Cuvelier ! So 31 players , Butler is a decision

 

[Woodwardfan]

I think Ironside is on loan too.

I seem to recall that Clough said in the summer that he would never want a squad of more than 23 plus a few "development players".

I think he regards McNulty, Kennedy, Diego, Adams, Reed are all "development players" and must feel a responsibility to ensure they have game time somewhere.

McFadzean, Ironside, Butler,and probably Cuvelier are all cast aside. (Clough didn't fancy Cuvelier when he was fit last season and sent him out on loan). Add to them Collins and McGinn who will be surely available to leave too. Not Porter, Clough loves to have Porter around.

 

[Sestanovich]

The only bloated squad members are Baxter and Higdon.

 

[Bladesway]

Why January? What is the rush? I don't know how many contracts expire in the summer but we could wait until then. The sky won't collapse will it?

 

[boo radley]

So Flynn is suddenly a defender ahead of Davies?

 

[Bladesman]

Why January? What is the rush? I don't know how many contracts expire in the summer but we could wait until then. The sky won't collapse will it?

Aye but some nutter might give us money for some of our players rather than letting them go for nowt.

You know us we like a good sale.

This time next year Rodney!

 

[UnitedBlade]

I think Ironside is on loan too.
.

I forgot about Ironside so 32.

 

[UnitedBlade]

Why January? What is the rush? I don't know how many contracts expire in the summer but we could wait until then. The sky won't collapse will it?

It depends how close we are to the SCMP limit.

In his interview on Saturday night, Clough said he didn't want any more "young" players, anyone we sign in January has to be experienced and good enough to get into the side.

That will cost money, so you would expect players to be shipped out.

However, I can see the scenario you hint at - squad stays more or less as it is (because even the ones we'd like to move won't as they are financially better off as they are) and no one comes in.

Let's hope any new players coming in aren't accommodated by the sale of players who actually do have some value ie Murphy etc.

 

[Bladesman]

I forgot about Ironside so 32.

How could you forget a TV show that finished in 1975.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Why January? What is the rush? I don't know how many contracts expire in the summer but we could wait until then. The sky won't collapse will it?

On these squad numbers FFP limits must be threatened. I think we are actively pushing players out on loan in preparation for additions in January. If Oldham really do want Porter for example let him go, though I don't think he's on a big wage surely. There may be some surprises, who knows? January is often the "make or break" period.

When we make mediocre signings on 2/3 year contracts this is when it really bites. There are only 11 positions in the team each week yet we pay 32 wages according to the OP. Some of those 32 are "no hopers" or not even marginally better than the so many of their colleagues. We have strength in depth but only a couple of match winners I'm afraid. Plenty of reasonable defenders but only a couple of really good ones. Loads of midfielders to pick three sides, yet no stars.

 

[UnitedBlade]

So Flynn is suddenly a defender ahead of Davies?

Obviously Flynn and Davies could appear in more than one category as can Basham, Baxter, Murphy.

Utility players further underline the reason why the squad is too big.

 

[Woodwardfan]

So Flynn is suddenly a defender ahead of Davies?

Hey Boo. Don't forget Davies has played the vast majority of his career in midfield.

 

[boo radley]

As well as what people would consider the obvious, Doyle could be a surprise and perhaps a few from the '1st' eleven as they have been in the shop window.

 

[boo radley]

Hey Boo. Don't forget Davies has played the vast majority of his career in midfield.

Clough classes him as a defender before Flynn.

 

[pommpey]

From that I'd say:

Goalkeepers
Howard - good shot stopper. Prone to occasional gaffe
Turner - haven't seen or heard much from him
Long - Keep. Still think he will return and re-establish himself

Defenders
Alcock - decent across the back four if pushed for available players
Flynn - the new role? Keep (shocker!)
Collins - ship out. Has been struggling since Maguire left
McGahey - ship out
McEveley - keep
McCarthy - will go back
Butler - get him back, straighten out the kinks and get him playing
Kennedy - ship out
Harris - keep

Need - another experienced CB and a LB as cover

Midfielders
Campbell-Ryce - keep
Murphy - definitely keep
Doyle - keep, until better midfield general arrives
Wallace J - keep. The potential is there for him
Basham - keep, but shift into back four
Scougall - keep, but needs an established role
Baxter - put on fitness regime
Reed - keep. Potential is there and I see him in the Doyle role and possibly Browny like
Davies - ship out if not being used
McGinn - ship out
Adams - are we gonna see this one play?
Wallace K - see above
Cuvelier - lets see what he is like after the injury return
McFadzean (out on loan) - leave out on loan

Forwards
O’Grady - send him back if he is not fit
McNulty - needs regular games to be effective. If we are playing one up front, he has no chance
Higdon - Jesus titty-fucking Christ
Porter - see above
Ironside - leave on loan
De Girolamo - get him back and in the team

pommpey

 

[Sheff de party]

From that I'd say:
McGahey - ship out

pommpey

Signed at 18 on probably very low pay, shown quite some promise, then ship him out after 3 months?

Absolute. Madness.

 

[pommpey]

Signed at 18 on probably very low pay, shown quite some promise, then ship him out after 3 months?

Absolute. Madness.

Yep. We need experience and steadiness at the back. This isn't the season to be blooding 18 year olds in when there isn't much to speak of around him. I can't see where the 'Absolute. Madness.' is in that. If you can't see that we need a better centre back pairing rather than gamble on youngsters like McGahey then good luck.

pommpey

 

[Sothall_Blade]

I'm only counting 22 Senior players and the rest are kids.

Unfair to demand that Clough's recruits and bloods young players then slag him off for having a bloated squad.

It's fairly obvious that Butler, Collins, McGinn and Porter will be moved on when the opportunity arises. That would leave 18 Senior players including some who are injured or returning from injury.

 

[pommpey]

I'm only counting 22 Senior players and the rest are kids.

Unfair to demand that Clough's recruits and bloods young players then slag him off for having a bloated squad.

It's fairly obvious that Butler, Collins, McGinn and Porter will be moved on when the opportunity arises. That would leave 18 Senior players including some who are injured or returning from injury.

Fair point Southall. I'm not slagging him off for that. I do think we are not in a situation to be blooding players in these days though. We need a consistent, consolidated core squad of twenty or so and in that at least eight who have regular, if not continuous places. The place to blood the kids is if you are flying away with the league or in the Paint Pot or League Cup smaller rounds against lesser opposition. Right now we need goals and points, and unless some of our youngsters are prodigious and gifted (and from what I see and hear they are simply 'promising') then Clough should either get them loaned out or transferred when he can.

pommpey

 

[Sothall_Blade]

Fair point Southall. I'm not slagging him off for that. I do think we are not in a situation to be blooding players in these days though. We need a consistent, consolidated core squad of twenty or so and in that at least eight who have regular, if not continuous places. The place to blood the kids is if you are flying away with the league or in the Paint Pot or League Cup smaller rounds against lesser opposition. Right now we need goals and points, and unless some of our youngsters are prodigious and gifted (and from what I see and hear they are simply 'promising') then Clough should either get them loaned out or transferred when he can.

pommpey

I agree and with the exception of Reed and McGahey that's pretty much what Clough has done.

Reed hasn't looked out of place but I do think it was a mistake to start with McGahey and persist with him for so long. Definitely one for the future.

 

[Sheff de party]

Yep. We need experience and steadiness at the back. This isn't the season to be blooding 18 year olds in when there isn't much to speak of around him. I can't see where the 'Absolute. Madness.' is in that. If you can't see that we need a better centre back pairing rather than gamble on youngsters like McGahey then good luck.

pommpey

You make a fair point, though I disagree for several reasons:

1) I’m not suggesting he should start, but he’s clearly able to play at this level. We need depth and he is a good back-up option.

2) We had the JPT, plus we're still in 2 cups and have a promotion campaign. We have a lot of games, so a Tuesday night at home to Crawley is the kind of game where we should be able to call on some of the kids alongside someone more experienced

3) We’re one of the better sides in the division. If we go up, we won’t be. Seasons like that are exactly the ones where we should be blooding in youngsters. It gives them experience when we’re (or at least should be) under less pressure that we would be in other divisions

4) Reed is exactly the kind of example where it works. He’s alongside more experienced players and is flourishing.

Whether you want to start him or not, he's a promising, strong and talented young footballer on (I presume) low wages. Shipping him out after 3 months is crazy. In my opinion.

 

[UnitedBlade]

I'm only counting 22 Senior players and the rest are kids.

Unfair to demand that Clough's recruits and bloods young players then slag him off for having a bloated squad.

It's fairly obvious that Butler, Collins, McGinn and Porter will be moved on when the opportunity arises. That would leave 18 Senior players including some who are injured or returning from injury.

I'm not slagging off Clough either, I'm concerned about how he will manoeuvre to get a stronger squad. We agree there are 4 senior players who should be moved on as soon as possible. He's still dealing with legacy that is taking up money.

My definition of "senior"squad is those contributing to SCMP which is 27, only Mcgahey, Diego, Reed, Adams and K Wallace don't.

He needs to clear out McFadzean, Ironside etc and decide what to do with Long and Kennedy (I would keep them).

I hope he can hang on to O'Grady otherwise we still have a striker problem.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

I'm not slagging off Clough either, I'm concerned about how he will manoeuvre to get a stronger squad. We agree there are 4 senior players who should be moved on as soon as possible. He's still dealing with legacy that is taking up money.

My definition of "senior"squad is those contributing to SCMP which is 27, only Mcgahey, Diego, Reed, Adams and K Wallace don't.

He needs to clear out McFadzean, Ironside etc and decide what to do with Long and Kennedy (I would keep them).

I hope he can hang on to O'Grady otherwise we still have a striker problem.

http://www.financialfairplay.co.uk/scmp.php

According to this, "players that are 20 or under at the start of the season are excluded from SCMP".
That means that Long, Kennedy and Ironside are excluded because they've only just turned 21. McFadzean is still 20.

"Wage costs for players loaned out to other clubs are deducted for the period of the loan".
That means that Long, Butler, McFadzean, Ironside and De Girolamo are mostly excluded from SCMP on those grounds also.

I make it 21 players from your list are contributing to SCMP, including the loanees McCarthy and O'Grady.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

Blades team from players who are 28 or under:-

____________Howard
Alcock McGahey Basham Harris
Flynn Scougall Wallace Cuvelier Murphy
___________O’Grady

Subs:- Long, Kennedy, Reed, Baxter, De Girolamo, Adams, McNulty

Others (Who have featured):- Willis, K.Wallace, McGinn, Dimaio, Whiteman, Khan, McFadzean, Ironside

 

[UnitedBlade]

http://www.financialfairplay.co.uk/scmp.php

According to this, "players that are 20 or under at the start of the season are excluded from SCMP".
That means that Long, Kennedy and Ironside are excluded because they've only just turned 21. McFadzean is still 20.

"Wage costs for players loaned out to other clubs are deducted for the period of the loan".
That means that Long, Butler, McFadzean, Ironside and De Girolamo are mostly excluded from SCMP on those grounds also.

I make it 21 players from your list are contributing to SCMP, including the loanees McCarthy and O'Grady.

Ok, they've changed that then as it used to be they had to be under 20 on 1 September. And yes any portion of loanees out wages are deducted and the portion of wages in is included. Clough last season said you generally have to pay 75% of wages although sometimes you can get a player for 50%. I imagine good players you sometimes have to pay the whole wage plus arrangement fee and agent.

Makes it better but we still need to shift Collins, McGinn, Porter and Butler. I would also let Doyle's contract run down - he's 34 next season and will be surplus to requirements.

 

[A19 byf]

We've managed to assemble a bloated squad that undoubtedly needs trimming. We currently have 32 players (29 plus 2 loanees plus 1 short-term contract). Getting rid of some must free up wages, although I'm not sure who will take the ones we should move on.

Goalkeepers (3 one on s-t contract)
Howard,
Turner (s-t)
Long

Defenders (9 one on loan)
Alcock,
Flynn
Collins
McGahey
McEveley,
McCarthy (loan)
Butler (out on loan)
Kennedy
Harris

Midfielders (14)
Campbell-Ryce
Murphy
Doyle
Wallace J
Basham
Scougall
Baxter
Reed
Davies
McGinn
Adams
Wallace K
Cuvelier
McFadzean (out on loan)

Forwards (6 two on loan)
O’Grady (loan)
McNulty
Higdon
Porter
Ironside (out on loan)
De Girolamo (out on loan)

Clough has a minimum of 9 players to consider but you could argue it should be more.

Decisions to make:
GK (everyone except Howard)

Defenders: Collins, McCarthy, Butler

Midfielders: McGinn, McFadzean

Forwards: Porter, Ironside and hopefully extend O’Grady loan

What about Dimaio ?