Blast from the past

[oldblade]

Actually, we were 3rd bottom on away records, whilst being 15th on home records. No-one lost more away games than us

http://stats.footballpredictions.net/england/premier/2006-2007/awaytable.html

Yes, but we still got more away points than two other teams, and I'll bet one of those was Fulham - who didn't go down.

But the whole point of a league is that you play games at home and away and that everyone plays to the same rules so you get a true measure of how good you are as compared to the other sides.

In 2006-7 there was no true measure.

 

[oldblade]

DB, looking after your own results is meaningless when others are breaking the rules. All teams are dependent to some degree on the results of others.

 

[dublin 10 blade]

It doesn't alter the fact that West Ham broke the rules quite substantially and as a result got more points than they would otherwise have done.

We played by the rules and got 38 points. Yes, we made mistakes and yes we were negative on occasions. But we also put in some very, very good performances - Tottenham at home, Arsenal at home, Wigan away, Villa at home, etc.

In the end that season was a very close run thing and I think there is no doubt whatsoever that what West Ham did made a critical difference to the final outcome.

As I've said elsewhere, I'm incredulous that any supporter of Sheffield United can think otherwise.

Most of the time we deserve what happens to us. Occasionally we don't. Season 2006-7 falls into the latter category.

Not disagreeing that west ham broke the rules , hence why we got the money of them , we did have some good games but when you can virtually count them on one hand you know it was a hard season that could end in tears , I'm a firm believer in making your own luck , and if we had fought as hard to stay in the league as to get in it we would have been ok , in fact losing Hulse was probably a bigger blow than anything West ham could have done , goals win games and scoring 32 of em didn't help , UTB .

 

[dublin 10 blade]

DB, looking after your own results is meaningless when others are breaking the rules. All teams are dependent to some degree on the results of others.

I agree with most of what your saying OB , but getting 2 draws from our last 2 games would have seen us safe , and we know why west ham didn't get points deducted was the league thought they were dead and buried at one stage . Agree with some of what your saying and disagree with other points , buddy if I see ya satdi buy ya a pint as always UTB .

 

[Darren]

Yes, but we still got more away points than two other teams, and I'll bet one of those was Fulham - who didn't go down.

But the whole point of a league is that you play games at home and away and that everyone plays to the same rules so you get a true measure of how good you are as compared to the other sides.

In 2006-7 there was no true measure.

Fulham got the same away points as us but had a better GD -22 to our -26. Only Charlton and Watford got less away points than us.

I agree with you on the main point of course.

 

[Pinchy]

A deliberate and conspicuous attempt to catch the ball in your own penalty area is also outside the rules. Perhaps we have a second culprit?

Will our hero ever explain himself? Probably not. He hasn't taken the slightest interest in United since he left. Legend? Not even a Blade.

 

[Pinchy]

There have been many times in the last 45 years when we have snatched disaster from a promising situation. Most of the time that has been through our own incompetence. But not all disasters are the same. Sometimes there are other factors that have nothing to do with our own shortcomings. The 2006-7 season was one such case. Anyone who cannot see that is blind.

Our fate was comfortably in our own hands. We should have sacked Warnock, appointed a manager capable of holding his own in the Premiership and backed him strongly in the January transfer window. We fucked it up again - that's why we went down. Look no further than the last two games. Ol' Big Nose got it horribly wrong in both.

All the other Premiership teams were wronged by West Ham that season. The others managed to stay up. We could and should have done the same.

 

[alcoblade]

All the other Premiership teams were wronged by West Ham that season. The others managed to stay up. We could and should have done the same.

That is so daft that it could only have been written by someone with an obvious alternative agenda. It's been reviewed to death (by those who don't prefer failing managers who can't deliver over those who can) and concluded that we were cheated, and we were awarded millions in compensation.

It remains a real shame that some of our own fans hate us, or love their own agenda so much, that they aren't big enough to accept this.

UTB

 

[SE1Blade]

What you're all completely missing is if we were awarded a perfectly legitimate goal in the last minute at West Ham we'd have stayed up and they'd have gone down, and it would have all been decided on the pitch. We created the chance and scored the chance. It's not our fault that the refereee chose to see a foul that wasn't there.

That's without discussing the "Stevie G intent-gate" at The Lane, Shelton at Old Trafford, the push on Jags v Wigan (which I only spotted recently as I couldn't bring myself to watch it again).

Also, if we'd have signed two of the worlds best players (worth a combibed £40m) on a free then we'd have stayed up.

We were cheated. end of. We are now battling relegation to the 4th and West Ham are firmly cemented as a PL regular. Who said cheats don't prosper?

 

[JohnDenver]

if we'd have signed two of the worlds best players (worth a combibed £40m) on a free then we'd have stayed up.

Succinctly put.

 

[oldblade]

A deliberate and conspicuous attempt to catch the ball in your own penalty area is also outside the rules. Perhaps we have a second culprit?

Will our hero ever explain himself? Probably not. He hasn't taken the slightest interest in United since he left. Legend? Not even a Blade.

You have something in common at last.

 

[oldblade]

I agree with most of what your saying OB , but getting 2 draws from our last 2 games would have seen us safe , and we know why west ham didn't get points deducted was the league thought they were dead and buried at one stage . Agree with some of what your saying and disagree with other points , buddy if I see ya satdi buy ya a pint as always UTB .

Getting one draw in our final game would have seen us safe. That does not alter the fact that we were cheated out of our premier league status.

 

[oldblade]

Our fate was comfortably in our own hands. We should have sacked Warnock, appointed a manager capable of holding his own in the Premiership and backed him strongly in the January transfer window. We fucked it up again - that's why we went down. Look no further than the last two games. Ol' Big Nose got it horribly wrong in both.

All the other Premiership teams were wronged by West Ham that season. The others managed to stay up. We could and should have done the same.

And all the other runners could have beaten Ben Johnson if only they'd trained a bit harder. It's obviously their fault that they failed to do so and Johnson should keep his gold medal.

 

[dublin 10 blade]

This is my final say on the matter , from my point of view .
1. west ham did cheat and should have punished a la Rangers /Juva . Think all of us agree on that . They could keep their fucking money .
2 . We had enough in our squad if used with the right tactics to have stayed in that league .
3 . We did'nt score no were near enough goals to win enough points .
From my point of view we had enough to stay in the league but when you combine the perfect storm of all of the above , with no 1 having the smallest bearing on the outcome of our league position , we were fucked .
One team , One United , Up them fucking Blades , mines a pint and whatever your having yourself .

 

[oldblade]

This is my final say on the matter , from my point of view .
1. west ham did cheat and should have punished a la Rangers /Juva . Think all of us agree on that . They could keep their fucking money .
2 . We had enough in our squad if used with the right tactics to have stayed in that league .
3 . We did'nt score no were near enough goals to win enough points .
From my point of view we had enough to stay in the league but when you combine the perfect storm of all of the above , with no 1 having the smallest bearing on the outcome of our league position , we were fucked .
One team , One United , Up them fucking Blades , mines a pint and whatever your having yourself .

1. West Ham did cheat and should have been relegated. We don't all agree on that. I am sick of reading anti Blade propaganda written by people who claim to be United supporters and yet come across as just avid West Ham apologists, or just rabid, anti-Warnock, anti McCabe, anti-everything United people who have completely lost their sense of justice. (And that is not aimed at you BTW)

2. Our squad would have been strong enough to stay up had one club not emphatically broken the rules of the league and given themselves a significant advantage by doing so. This is not to be confused with an individual transgressing the rules of the game by handling in the penalty area. A rather weak point made during the course of this thread.

In some matches we made mistakes tactically, but in others we played very, very well. Bramall Lane was a good place to be, was fuller and louder than at any time in over 40 years and those that went saw some great games of football. At the start of the season few people (be they Blades or neutrals) expected us to come at all close to staying up. The fact that we went down on goal difference shows the tactics etc can't have been that bad. It is not the fault of Warnock or his tactics that we missed two penalties at home to Blackburn or that Kenny dropped the ball at Johnson's feet against Everton, or that Davis and Gerrard allowed Portsmouth to equalise in bizarre fashion.

3. We scored sufficient goals to get 38 points which would have been enough to stay up had West Ham not done what they did.

You can argue all you want about failures on the pitch, tactics, team selection, transfer policy. We did do enough to stay up in normal circumstances with everyone playing to the same set of league rules. As far as I'm concerned we finished 17th out of 19 premier league clubs. The 20th club played to a different set of rules and so wasn't really operating as a league member.

 

[Darren]

What you're all completely missing is if we were awarded a perfectly legitimate goal in the last minute at West Ham we'd have stayed up and they'd have gone down, and it would have all been decided on the pitch. We created the chance and scored the chance. It's not our fault that the refereee chose to see a foul that wasn't there.

That's without discussing the "Stevie G intent-gate" at The Lane, Shelton at Old Trafford, the push on Jags v Wigan (which I only spotted recently as I couldn't bring myself to watch it again).

Also, if we'd have signed two of the worlds best players (worth a combibed £40m) on a free then we'd have stayed up.

We were cheated. end of. We are now battling relegation to the 4th and West Ham are firmly cemented as a PL regular. Who said cheats don't prosper?

I don't disagree about the other issues, but all of those were decisions made in good faith by refs. Poor decisions by refs are part and parcel of the game and effect all teams. No-one was cheating there.

What was different with WHU was that they consciously and knowingly cheated (they pleaded guilty remember). It is astonishing that that cheating was not punished in the currency in which the league deals - points.

 

[Darren]

1. West Ham did cheat and should have been relegated. We don't all agree on that. I am sick of reading anti Blade propaganda written by people who claim to be United supporters and yet come across as just avid West Ham apologists, or just rabid, anti-Warnock, anti McCabe, anti-everything United people who have completely lost their sense of justice. (And that is not aimed at you BTW)

2. Our squad would have been strong enough to stay up had one club not emphatically broken the rules of the league and given themselves a significant advantage by doing so. This is not to be confused with an individual transgressing the rules of the game by handling in the penalty area. A rather weak point made during the course of this thread.

In some matches we made mistakes tactically, but in others we played very, very well. Bramall Lane was a good place to be, was fuller and louder than at any time in over 40 years and those that went saw some great games of football. At the start of the season few people (be they Blades or neutrals) expected us to come at all close to staying up. The fact that we went down on goal difference shows the tactics etc can't have been that bad. It is not the fault of Warnock or his tactics that we missed two penalties at home to Blackburn or that Kenny dropped the ball at Johnson's feet against Everton, or that Davis and Gerrard allowed Portsmouth to equalise in bizarre fashion.

3. We scored sufficient goals to get 38 points which would have been enough to stay up had West Ham not done what they did.

You can argue all you want about failures on the pitch, tactics, team selection, transfer policy. We did do enough to stay up in normal circumstances with everyone playing to the same set of league rules. As far as I'm concerned we finished 17th out of 19 premier league clubs. The 20th club played to a different set of rules and so wasn't really operating as a league member.

Agreed. I think virtually everyone at the start of season was predicting United, Watford and one other to be relegated. We actually performed above expectations that season.

 

[oldblade]

What was different with WHU was that they consciously and knowingly cheated (they pleaded guilty remember). It is astonishing that that cheating was not punished in the currency in which the league deals - points.

Especially when the reason West Ham doing that was to improve the performance of their team on the pitch and thereby gain more points in order to get a higher league position. A fine did not address any of that.

 

[Darren]

Especially when the reason West Ham doing that was to improve the performance of their team on the pitch and thereby gain more points in order to get a higher league position. A fine did not address any of that.

I do wonder - without any sort if proof obviously - if there was some sort of nod and wink plea bargain - WHU to plead guilty to save the PL lots of hassle in return for an understanding that no points would be deducted.

What was also interesting is that, even on WHU's case ("we accept it was unlawful what the previous owners did, but we have now denoucned the third party agreement"), Tevez and the other chap played a number of games for WHU when they were ineligible to do so. The usual punishment for fielding ineligible players is that the points are awarded to your opponent. It follows that all points earned by WHU prior to the alleged denouncing in games in which the two played should have been cancelled. That would have included the 3 points they got from us on 25/11/06.

 

[JohnDenver]

A friendly lunch with Trev. A couple of glasses of Malbec. All sorted.

 

[norfolkblade]

A deliberate and conspicuous attempt to catch the ball in your own penalty area is also outside the rules. Perhaps we have a second culprit?

Will our hero ever explain himself? Probably not. He hasn't taken the slightest interest in United since he left. Legend? Not even a Blade.

I still maintain he was pushed in the back, hence the flailing arm

 

[Darren]

I still maintain he was pushed in the back, hence the flailing arm

It seems to me that he was either pushed or believed he was pushed and put up his arm to appeal. Stupid, but nothing more. Pinchy has denied making any suggestion of any deliberate wrongdoing, so I am not quite sure why he keeps raising this point.

 

[norfolkblade]

It seems to me that he was either pushed or believed he was pushed and put up his arm to appeal. Stupid, but nothing more. Pinchy has denied making any suggestion of any deliberate wrongdoing, so I am not quite sure why he keeps raising this point.

I think if you've already jumped and then get pushed, my natural instinct would be to raise my hands to try and gain a sense of balance to land again, you could say we were screwed by the ref in both the first and the final game of the season.

Whatever happened to Rob Styles by the way?

 

[BerksBlade]

I do wonder - without any sort if proof obviously - if there was some sort of nod and wink plea bargain - WHU to plead guilty to save the PL lots of hassle in return for an understanding that no points would be deducted.

If the PL had acted promptly then it could have all been avoided. Points deducted - job done. Instead they dithered for months (supposedly investigating) and then claimed it was "too late in the season" to deduct points. In the meantime W*st H*m supposedly tore up the contract with Joorabchian (which they couldn't do unless he agreed) and then the PL went for a fine instead.

The whole Tevez thing seemed to make us unpopular with supporters of other teams. The sad thing is we had it in our own hands to survive despite the cheating, but we blew it. Couldn't force a draw at home against our relegation rivals. I still believe that if Hulse hadn't been crocked we would have stayed up, but we'll never know.

 

[dublin 10 blade]

1. West Ham did cheat and should have been relegated. We don't all agree on that. I am sick of reading anti Blade propaganda written by people who claim to be United supporters and yet come across as just avid West Ham apologists, or just rabid, anti-Warnock, anti McCabe, anti-everything United people who have completely lost their sense of justice. (And that is not aimed at you BTW)

2. Our squad would have been strong enough to stay up had one club not emphatically broken the rules of the league and given themselves a significant advantage by doing so. This is not to be confused with an individual transgressing the rules of the game by handling in the penalty area. A rather weak point made during the course of this thread.

In some matches we made mistakes tactically, but in others we played very, very well. Bramall Lane was a good place to be, was fuller and louder than at any time in over 40 years and those that went saw some great games of football. At the start of the season few people (be they Blades or neutrals) expected us to come at all close to staying up. The fact that we went down on goal difference shows the tactics etc can't have been that bad. It is not the fault of Warnock or his tactics that we missed two penalties at home to Blackburn or that Kenny dropped the ball at Johnson's feet against Everton, or that Davis and Gerrard allowed Portsmouth to equalise in bizarre fashion.

3. We scored sufficient goals to get 38 points which would have been enough to stay up had West Ham not done what they did.

You can argue all you want about failures on the pitch, tactics, team selection, transfer policy. We did do enough to stay up in normal circumstances with everyone playing to the same set of league rules. As far as I'm concerned we finished 17th out of 19 premier league clubs. The 20th club played to a different set of rules and so wasn't really operating as a league member.

Not excusing west ham for anything , and think they should have been punished more like Juva's punishment rather than throw us a couple of crumbs from the table money wise , never critical of our club in a negative manner , always try to give constructive criticism , which football fan of any club does'nt think he knows better than any other fan , tactic wise OB , jesus 1 minute doyle is shit ,the next game he's mom in somebody's opinion , same goes for monty , quinn was slated on here by some for his corner taking , same could go for collins , maguire who I defend on another thread , Hill flynn smurfy ,take your pick some-ones turn this week to be a fall guy , or reading some on here , past ,present and future managers , are shit and don't know there arses from there elbows , we agree up to a certain point , and reading and digesting what you have had to say don't disagree much after that , stood by danny wilson my posts are on here and think it was a major fuckup to get rid of him , mr Warnock never slated him while at the club ,but he was a prize prat at times for our club in any media outlet , Mr Bassett next to jesus , infallible in my eyes , Mr McCabe is a business man and as such makes money , he does it through our club , making our stadium the envy of the pork , I don't care , he's made mistakes who has'nt , but when you come to our ground from any direction it looks fucking great , I know your not directly having a pop at me , were both of an age were we 've seen really , really, really , bad united teams . So we will have been through the mill of following our team , sorry for being long winded , sorry for any spelling mistakes , but I thought your post deserved a full response , at the end of the day were all blades that offer still stands . COYRWW .UTB
You've taken up enough of my lunch now ya bollox , going to get some snap ..

 

[JohnDenver]

I am not quite sure why he keeps raising this point.

To provoke a reaction?

 

[metalblade]

The thing is guys certain teams are the Premierships darlings at the time it was a big 4 of Man U, Chelsea, Arse and Liverpool closely followed by other fashionable big spenders such as the likes of Spurs, Villa and World Cup 1966 winners West Ham. The Premier league didn't want those uncouth northerners of Sheffield United especially when footballs biggest mouth piece was their manager, even if a lot of what he said about the hierarchy was bang right. They were never going to give us a level playing field, I have never in one season seen so many refereeing decisions go against us nor have I ever seen a team have so much bad luck, even in games where we had no involvement refereeing decisions all went against us. Call it a conspiracy theory or whatever else you like I still believe everything that could be done was done to make sure we went down and Premiership darlings W Ham got away with their cheating. The West Ham chairman and Premier league boss sat side by side at Old Trafford watching Tevez score against a deliberately weak Man U says it all for me.

 

[Bulletnut]

Tevez was one player in a team of eleven men. He wasn't a God, he wasn't a superstar, he was wank when they played us so please let's stop bleating about some insignificance that we latched onto simply to cover our own shortcomings. We had plenty of opportunities to sign Premier League players and we didn't take them, we signed duffers. We had the opportunity to get rid of the cowardly rat who went all negative after Christmas and we didn't.

West Ham broke the rules and should have been punished, they were albeit only in a financial way which was wrong but what would we have done had we stayed up? Would Warnock have been kept on? Probably and quite wrongly in my opinion. Would McCabe have paid for quality players in a serious bid to make Europe in 5 years? I doubt it.

All speculation I know but our current predicament says a lot about the hierarchy at the club. It has a small time mentality and rather that use our time in the Premier League as a platform I think it scared the shit out of them. Don't blame West Ham for that, we had a marvelous opportunity and blew it. Sad but true, our cowardice cost us big time and it's nowt but a tragedy truth be told.

 

[Darren]

Tevez was one player in a team of eleven men. He wasn't a God, he wasn't a superstar, he was wank when they played us so please let's stop bleating about some insignificance that we latched onto simply to cover our own shortcomings. We had plenty of opportunities to sign Premier League players and we didn't take them, we signed duffers. We had the opportunity to get rid of the cowardly rat who went all negative after Christmas and we didn't.

West Ham broke the rules and should have been punished, they were albeit only in a financial way which was wrong but what would we have done had we stayed up? Would Warnock have been kept on? Probably and quite wrongly in my opinion. Would McCabe have paid for quality players in a serious bid to make Europe in 5 years? I doubt it.

All speculation I know but our current predicament says a lot about the hierarchy at the club. It has a small time mentality and rather that use our time in the Premier League as a platform I think it scared the shit out of them. Don't blame West Ham for that, we had a marvelous opportunity and blew it. Sad but true, our cowardice cost us big time and it's nowt but a tragedy truth be told.

For the nth time... WHU broke the rules to sign two world class players. Had they not broken the rules, they would have had worst players playing for them. An independent panel found that that was enough to have made the difference between us being relegated and WHU being relegated.

So it was not a question of them just breaking the rules in a "financial way". If we had discovered that Gerrard and Rooney had been involved in various convoluted and illegal sexual activities and we had blackmailed them into signing for us, we would have been acting equally illegally and I am sure the skills of those two players would have got us the extra goal we needed to avoid relegation.

 

[JohnDenver]

West Ham broke the rules and should have been punished, they were albeit only in a financial way which was wrong but what would we have done had we stayed up? Would Warnock have been kept on? Probably and quite wrongly in my opinion. Would McCabe have paid for quality players in a serious bid to make Europe in 5 years? I doubt it.

This is a bit like reporting on a murder trial by suggesting what a crap life the victim would have lived if they'd not been murdered.