Blackman: God?

[blade too long]

In the JTW we brought in 4 players and significantly increased the strength of the squad.
.

very clappy , praising mccabe and wilson like that

"Matt Bianco is the clappers answer to Micalijo. Rubbing his hands after victories " hes got sore hands from rubbing a lot lately
Collins and Robson , have protected the back and linked to the front , thought Doyle looked far comfier yesterday with the extra space created

 

[Darren]

Beat me to it. Let's compare at the end of the season Darren. Plus, take a look at the stats I have pulled out in the 'most important player thread'.

Did you and Rev miss this bit?

"Obviously, we will have to wait to the end of the season for a final verdict, but at the moment the stats show we are doing better without Blackman than we did with him".

 

[Ollessendro]

It is a small sample size, so we'll have to wait until it gets bigger before we jump to conclusions. However similar stats have been brought up multiple times in the past re former players ie; Beattie (1st time round) and used as proof.

The comparisons were only made after BT had departed. The BT analysis was straight forward, with him leaving after exactly 23 games. That said, the Blackman analysis will be similar at the end of the season (in terms of number of games played).

Did you and Rev miss this bit?

"Obviously, we will have to wait to the end of the season for a final verdict, but at the moment the stats show we are doing better without Blackman than we did with him".

No, didn't miss it. Just pointing out that what you have done so far is pretty pointless. The problem also is that the team has been significantly strengthened recently, so you are not comparing apples with apples. Blackman has gone, but 2 (maybe 3 if you include Robson) strong attacking players (and one experienced defender have come in). There is nothing to say that we would not be doing the same with Blackman still at the club. I for one (with Forte and Muphy currently injured) would have liked to have had Blackman as an option. He may have been the difference last Tuesday against Orient.

But let's see atthe end of the season. Only then will we be able to say whether the sale was a good idea.

 

[moDtheGod]

Did you and Rev miss this bit?

"Obviously, we will have to wait to the end of the season for a final verdict, but at the moment the stats show we are doing better without Blackman than we did with him".

I don't think they missed it, they are just saying that it's irrelevant because it's too small a sample. Stats can lie, just like the league table

The other thing of course is that when Blackman joined, we weren't a team. We had major reconstructive surgery in the summer, so it was obvious that time would be needed to gel. The last handful of games have come after half a season; in my mind, any team would be favourite to perform better in games 29 - 35 than in games 1 - 7, if the fixtures are random.

 

[moDtheGod]

Oh Olle's beaten me to it. That's what you get when you leave threads open for ten minutes before actually posting.

 

[Darren]

The comparisons were only made after BT had departed. The BT analysis was straight forward, with him leaving after exactly 23 games. That said, the Blackman analysis will be similar at the end of the season (in terms of number of games played).



No, didn't miss it. Just pointing out that what you have done so far is pretty pointless. The problem also is that the team has been significantly strengthened recently, so you are not comparing apples with apples. Blackman has gone, but 2 (maybe 3 if you include Robson) strong attacking players (and one experienced defender have come in). There is nothing to say that we would not be doing the same with Blackman still at the club. I for one (with Forte and Muphy currently injured) would have liked to have had Blackman as an option. He may have been the difference last Tuesday against Orient.

But let's see atthe end of the season. Only then will we be able to say whether the sale was a good idea.

But my only point (which you seem to agree with) was that we are now better off as a squad than before the transfer window. Of course, we would be even better off if we still had Blackman as well, but I rather suspect we wouldn't have got all the players who came in if we still had him.

 

[Barney Rubble]

I don't think they missed it, they are just saying that it's irrelevant because it's too small a sample. Stats can lie, just like the league table

The other thing of course is that when Blackman joined, we weren't a team. We had major reconstructive surgery in the summer, so it was obvious that time would be needed to gel. The last handful of games have come after half a season; in my mind, any team would be favourite to perform better in games 29 - 35 than in games 1 - 7, if the fixtures are random.

But stats can't lie in this case. Although all teams would expect to do better in games 29-35 than in games 1-7 only half of them can, since the same number of points are being played for.

In the end statistics back up supposition, not the truth. Mancini uses statistics to argue he's the reason Man City are successful, Blackwell fans point to his win percentage to prove he was a good manager. There's always other factors at play.

So our recent run of form could be due to the return of Collins, the sale of Blackman, Kitson becoming stronger after injury, the addition of Robson, adequate replacements being found for Miller, Wilson buying a pair of lucky underpants, something I haven't thought of or a combination of any of the above.

 

[Revolution]

But my only point (which you seem to agree with) was that we are now better off as a squad than before the transfer window. Of course, we would be even better off if we still had Blackman as well, but I rather suspect we wouldn't have got all the players who came in if we still had him.

I would probably agree with you that we have a better squad if everyone was fit. As things stand at the moment, if Kitson gets injured we are as stuffed forwards wise as we usually are in the playoffs.

 

[Ollessendro]

But my only point (which you seem to agree with) was that we are now better off as a squad than before the transfer window. Of course, we would be even better off if we still had Blackman as well, but I rather suspect we wouldn't have got all the players who came in if we still had him.

yep, ok, agree with that.

I would probably agree with you that we have a better squad if everyone was fit. As things stand at the moment, if Kitson gets injured we are as stuffed forwards wise as we usually are in the playoffs.

We have had a bit of bad luck, losing key players at crucial times. Collins and Miller are those 2. Collins is rock solid and Miller was on fire and shaping up to be the best striker in the league. That said, all teams have injuries and squads should be able to cope. Our squad is currently the best in the league and it is stronger than in August. However, we are a couple of injuries away from struggling. We could potentially cope with Collins or Maguire missing a game or two, as Hill could slot in (though it is far from ideal), but injuries to K Mac and or Kitson and we are suddenly in big trouble. If we keep the centre back pairing, Doyle and K Mac and Kitson fit, plus get Murphy and Forte back and fit, then I think we'll win the league. However a bit of bad luck injury wise and we might be looking at the play offs.

 

[Revolution]

If we keep the centre back pairing, Doyle and K Mac and Kitson fit, plus get Murphy and Forte back and fit, then I think we'll win the league. However a bit of bad luck injury wise and we might be looking at the play offs.

Was discussing the state of the squad with Revolution Snr last night and this was also our take (though we guessed second as to come first would actually involve us winning something). Despite the occasional stutter, this squad has the talent to win promotion, but this season and last have shown that things go to pieces all too readily if key players get injured.

I think we will make the playoffs as a minimum now, but we have no chance of winning the playoffs of course.

 

[Ollessendro]

Was discussing the state of the squad with Revolution Snr last night and this was also our take (though we guessed second as to come first would actually involve us winning something). Despite the occasional stutter, this squad has the talent to win promotion, but this season and last have shown that things go to pieces all too readily if key players get injured.

I think we will make the playoffs as a minimum now, but we have no chance of winning the playoffs of course.

Spot on Rev. I was discussing with a mate over the weekend and we were saying that the 2 major deciding factors for us were injuries/keeping key players fit and improving our home form. You could possible add a 3rd in of improving our form against the teams around us, however I think if the first 2 go our way then the 3rd will come naturally.

 

[super_pig]

Now I am not aiming my following accusation at any of the previous posters in thsi thread exactly.

However, it does seem odd how the general consensus has changed.

i still think it was short termist to sell him .. saying that i'm glad he was playing well at the time as it took the spotlight off Harry, George and Diego so that our great leader didn't sell them instead

 

[mattbianco1]

Matt Bianco is the clappers answer to Micalijo. Rubbing his hands after victories so he can go on and say I told you so and rub the doubters/cynics/pessimists noses in it.

At least I put my cards on the table and said we were in a better position even before a ball was kicked vs. Coventry.

I had multiple arguments on here on the final day of the JTW with Alco, Fiery, Micalijio, Metal etc. because they couldn't believe or understand that selling Blackman and replacing him with the players we did was a good thing.

At least I don't just come out after we've won and say it if I've not previously said it.

I did mention that the Coventry game including the next 6 after that we would only lose 1 and draw two and win the rest. Again that was laughed at. The team have actually done better than I predicted.

 

[alcoblade]

I had multiple arguments on here on the final day of the JTW with Alco, Fiery, Micalijio, Metal etc. because they couldn't believe or understand that selling Blackman and replacing him with the players we did was a good thing.

Just not true Matt - my issue was both selling Blackman and then getting players in an hour before the window closed. I don't see how anyone can argue that these came as a package.

UTB

 

[mattbianco1]

Just not true Matt - my issue was both selling Blackman and then getting players in an hour before the window closed. I don't see how anyone can argue that these came as a package.

UTB

Robson & Forte were signed around 5pm... Or at least announced at that time.

We failed in a bid for Dundee's Russell late on although i don't see this to be significant??

 

[Darren]

Just not true Matt - my issue was both selling Blackman and then getting players in an hour before the window closed. I don't see how anyone can argue that these came as a package.

UTB

Perhaps we didn't have the funds for Robson and Forte until we sold Blackman.

 

[alcoblade]

Robson & Forte were signed around 5pm... Or at least announced at that time.

We failed in a bid for Dundee's Russell late on although i don't see this to be significant??

Perhaps we didn't have the funds for Robson and Forte until we sold Blackman.

I don't see how we could have been arguing about this - My point was that if we sold Blackman in the hope that something acceptable would become available in the last few hours of the transfer window, then surely none of us would be happy with that? Surely that would just back up (as it did) my entire frustration with McCabe's short term thinking.

UTB

 

[Darren]

I don't see how we could have been arguing about this - My point was that if we sold Blackman in the hope that something acceptable would become available in the last few hours of the transfer window, then surely none of us would be happy with that? Surely that would just back up (as it did) my entire frustration with McCabe's short term thinking.

UTB

Or maybe we had those two lined up and were waiting for the Blackman deal to go through before confirming those deals when we knew we had the Blackman funds. A bit like a housing chain perhaps.

 

[alcoblade]

Or maybe we had those two lined up and were waiting for the Blackman deal to go through before confirming those deals when we knew we had the Blackman funds. A bit like a housing chain perhaps.

In the same way as pigs might one day fly?

We sold Blackman days before. If there was really doubt about these funds becoming available for use before the actual deadline, then ditto my previous post.

UTB

 

[Darren]

In the same way as pigs might one day fly?

We sold Blackman days before. If there was really doubt about these funds becoming available for use before the actual deadline, then ditto my previous post.

UTB

Blackman went on the 30th and Robson and Forte signed on the 31st. As neither of us are privy to what Wilson was up to around that time, its all groundless supposition on both our parts, but I don't see why your supposition is more likely than mine.

 

[mattbianco1]

Blackman went on the 30th and Robson and Forte signed on the 31st. As neither of us are privy to what Wilson was up to around that time, its all groundless supposition on both our parts, but I don't see why your supposition is more likely than mine.

Agree with this totally.

Danny Wilson has said all season, "We're looking at new players but nobody comes in until somebody goes out"

 

[alcoblade]

Blackman went on the 30th and Robson and Forte signed on the 31st. As neither of us are privy to what Wilson was up to around that time, its all groundless supposition on both our parts, but I don't see why your supposition is more likely than mine.

Agree with this totally.

Danny Wilson has said all season, "We're looking at new players but nobody comes in until somebody goes out"

Wow. Some peoples trust in the club seems inversley proportional to that which it deserves these days...

If you are prepared to accept that those deals were nailed on and it was just timing, then that's up to you. It sounds like utter bollocks to me. We can agree to differ.

If you don't acept that, then you might think that selling Blackman and hoping for replacements was acceptable. Again, to me, that's utter bollocks.


UTB

 

[Darren]

Wow. Some peoples trust in the club seems inversley proportional to that which it deserves these days...

If you are prepared to accept that those deals were nailed on and it was just timing, then that's up to you. It sounds like utter bollocks to me. We can agree to differ.

If you don't acept that, then you might think that selling Blackman and hoping for replacements was acceptable. Again, to me, that's utter bollocks.


UTB

I don't accept that. I just don't know.

You do have the zeal of the convert on this "everything United do must be utterly incompetent" line

 

[alcoblade]

I don't accept that. I just don't know.

You do have the zeal of the convert on this "everything United do must be utterly incompetent" line

Come off it Dazzler, It's as clear as the nose on your face what happened here. I didn't decide to jump over that line you know. I was pushed over it by the complete fuck up of this decision.

UTB

 

[Darren]

Come off it Dazzler, It's as clear as the nose on your face what happened here. I didn't decide to jump over that line you know. I was pushed over it by the complete fuck up of this decision.

UTB

Really?

There had been talk about Blackman going for a few days before he went. Do you really think Wilson sat on his arse for those few days and did nothing and when Blackman went thought "fuck me, I need some new players" and then scrabbled round madly to get Robson and Forte in. If you think this, how do you think Wilson ever got beyond managing an under 12's team?

It seems to me to be far more likely that when it seemed likely Blackman was going, Wilson was busy on the phone lining other deals up, but, because of the financial situation, could not finalise those deals until he actually went; and, perhaps (heaven forbid that we could display such competence when everyone knows no-one at United has two braincells to rub together), we took this up to the wire with Reading to extract the maximum amount of money from them.

 

[mattbianco1]

Barry Robson did will to get on the next flight from Canada just in time to sign on the dotted line before the deadline

 

[Deleted member 875]

I wasn't a big fan of Blackman, and thought it was a belting bit of business making a big sum on him. Mark my words he won't cut it at Premiership level and bringing in Murphy, Robson, Forte and Poleon off the back of the profit we made is a belting bit of business.

 

[alcoblade]

post: 480171, member: 875"]and bringing in Murphy, Robson, Forte and Poleon off the back of the profit we made is a belting bit of business.

I agree (ish) with this bit - so given it was all neatly tied up (no, really) , it makes you wonder why the chairman said "I hope he stays" (no, really).


Come on chaps - being happy with the eventual business doesn't mean it was a tidy bit of business. It was last minute bortttom fishing.

"I hope he stays". My arse.

UTB

 

[Sothall_Blade]

Agree with this totally.

Danny Wilson has said all season, "We're looking at new players but nobody comes in until somebody goes out"

Yes, Wilson has consistently said that.
So why the hell did McCabe contradict him by saying Blackman didn't need to leave before we signed new players?
Why did McCabe say Monty and Creswell could play when Danny said he'd been told they couldn't?
Why say we're building a squad around our good, young players then sell one in order to sign three loanees and an old player for three months?

If you ignore what McCabe says and believe Wilson then United did do well in the transfer window.
If you believe McCabe we could have signed the others AND kept Blackman as well.
If that's true AND it's true we made a bid for Dundee United's Russell those wages should still be available for a loan player.
Maybe there is room for manoeuvre and Danny is waiting to see what's required if/when players get injured.
If so, that's sensible but again it's not what we're hearing from the club and that's what is frustrating.

 

[Grecian2000]

Can someone point me to the thread where someone claimed Blackman was God per chance? Must have been a week-end because it passed me by.

I am enjoying the team better without him for now. Let's see where we are at seasons end and all the loanees and "short termers" have buggered off back/elsewhere and let's have a look at the team then. Hopefully promotion will mean we can sign some up permanently OR we can afford suitable candidates for the Championship. I'd hate to be having the conversation on the back of us still being in this Division because it will get ugly.