Blackman debate over?

[Ashtonsmashton]

To be honest blackman wasn't the biggest striker considering most of his goals where from the spot.

I meant best not biggest

 

[alcoblade]

Got to pull you up here, it was at least the 2nd offer. We know that there was an offer from Palace accepted, we don't know if any were rejected.

Also, it was said before we sold Blackman that we were getting 2 players in regardless of whether Blackman went or not. We got 2 players after we sold Blackman.

You can argue whether these were the only targets, you can argue whether these were first choice, but I'd say from the type of players that going for a pacey, versatile forward in forte; an experience, proper footballer in Robson we got the right players.

Not forgetting the early signings of Higgo and Murphy we added experience at the back, pace and versatility in Murphy.

Finally we just added Poleon, he could turn out to be another Cofie, he could end up being a cracking loanee. We'll see.

The success of the JTW will be proven in the next couple of months, but so far the signs are good.

Did we replace Blackman? Potentially the player was already at the club, Murphy, but we've added strength in a number of areas and so far, without disrespect to Blackman, it sounds like we've not missed him. I repeat, So far. But as an added booster we've brought in Poleon and Diego has also made his cameo.

The loanees as I understand it are both here until the end of the season, unless recalled.

The question I have is not about Blackman, but whether we've replaced Miller

Come off it Swiss. We dealt at the earliest opportunity. The fact that 2nd division Palace ("How can we stand in their way") could satisfy our owner with a cheap deal, but not the player, only adds to the desperation.

The players that came in after (a loan and a 3 month contract for our top, young, in demand striker that we've had for 5 months) were at the 11.99th hour. They were not already lined up and we could have missed out on them.

How anyone can argue that Blackman's sale ("I hope he stays") was part of any restructuring (if that's what you're doing), and not a cash grab, is beyond me.

UTB

 

[Large Mendonca]

There were loads of empty seats, surely you could have moved? Mind you, there were also loads of rugrats annoying the shit out of me, perhaps that's why you didn't move.

I usually sit in the "library" as it has a great view, although the last couple of times has been spoiled by a horribly bigotted family (including 3 blokes) who pick on single blades. Not going there again.

 

[Darren]

Come off it Swiss. We dealt at the earliest opportunity. The fact that 2nd division Palace ("How can we stand in their way") could satisfy our owner with a cheap deal, but not the player, only adds to the desperation.

The players that came in after (a loan and a 3 month contract for our top, young, in demand striker that we've had for 5 months) were at the 11.99th hour. They were not already lined up and we could have missed out on them.

How anyone can argue that Blackman's sale ("I hope he stays") was part of any restructuring (if that's what you're doing), and not a cash grab, is beyond me.

UTB

We don't know do we. Perhaps McCabe said to Wilson "how much do you want to keep Blackman" and Wilson said "not that much, he's not all that", so McCabe decided to sell.

We gained Higginbotham, Murphy, Poleon, Forte and Robson and lost Cofie, Philliskirk, McAllister, Blackman and Porter. We also probably made a financial profit on these deals. A net gain for me.

 

[Bergen Blade]

We gained Higginbotham, Murphy, Poleon, Forte and Robson and lost Cofie, Philliskirk, McAllister, Blackman and Porter. We also probably made a financial profit on these deals. A net gain for me.

Agree, but only one of five are long term signings.

 

[alcoblade]

We don't know do we. Perhaps McCabe said to Wilson "how much do you want to keep Blackman" and Wilson said "not that much, he's not all that", so McCabe decided to sell.

We gained Higginbotham, Murphy, Poleon, Forte and Robson and lost Cofie, Philliskirk, McAllister, Blackman and Porter. We also probably made a financial profit on these deals. A net gain for me.

We can always find excuses / reasons why we sell our best players at key times. God knows, I've done it enough over the years. I'm out of excuses now. The McCabeophiles can crack on - but most have seen through it now.


UTB

 

[alcoblade]

Agree, but only one of five are long term signings.

Exactly.

UTB

 

[sitwell]

long term means fuck all these days at any club .

 

[Darren]

Agree, but only one of five are long term signings.

And of the 5 we got rid of only Blackman wasn't, on the whole, shit so we have exchanged 4 crap players and one long term decent player for one long term decentish player (Murphy), 3 short term decentish players (Higgginbotham, Forte and Robson) and one for whom we can't yet judge (Poleon).

And at the moment, all that matters is the short term. We can plan for the long term when we are out of this crap division.

 

[Darren]

We can always find excuses / reasons why we sell our best players at key times. God knows, I've done it enough over the years. I'm out of excuses now. The McCabeophiles can crack on - but most have seen through it now.


UTB

Oh no, you have fallen victim to the "name calling instead of an argument" tendency!. Nurse, the screens!

I was as pissed off as the next man when we sold Blackman, but recent results and performances have led me to believe that Wilson might actually know what he is doing. As ever, the proof will be at the end of the season.

 

[Bladesway]

Oh no, you have fallen victim to the "name calling instead of an argument" tendency!. Nurse, the screens!

I was as pissed off as the next man when we sold Blackman, but recent results and performances have led me to believe that Wilson might actually know what he is doing. As ever, the proof will be at the end of the season.

Wilson I have no issue with. He isn't a great manager but he is about as good as we can get at our level. McCabe is the person (shocking breaking news here) who I blame 100% now for where we are. Its been an escallating percentage from about 10% on our Premiership relegation to where we are now. He says one thing and does another. Buys youth, tells us youth is the way forward and then sells youth to be replaced by a bloke on loan. Sorry Kev, your excuses are no longer valid here.

 

[JohnDenver]

recent results and performances have led me to believe that Wilson might actually know what he is doing. As ever, the proof will be at the end of the season.

I've always thought Wilson knew what he was doing. It's McCabe's decision making that worries me.

 

[Pinchy]

alcoblade,
Mick Jones - Yes, protest.
Tony Currie - Yes, widespread civil unrest.
Jan-Aage - Yes, Violent Disorder.
Brian Deane - Yes, the ultimate: SHOES OFF!
Nick Blackman [for £1m+]........mmmm........OK then.

 

[Grecian2000]

alcoblade,
Mick Jones - Yes, protest.
Tony Currie - Yes, widespread civil unrest.
Jan-Aage - Yes, Violent Disorder.
Brian Deane - Yes, the ultimate: SHOES OFF!
Nick Blackman [for £1m+]........mmmm........OK then.

All about "tipping point" though Pinch.

Alco has, strenuously in some cases, defended decisions right up until Blackmans removal. I lost patience (and my place in Blades Revival) the day Alan Kelly was sold and I know of one individual who has rarely been seen at BDTBL since TC left in '76. Each to their own.

You know full well you were almost "over the edge" when our best player headed for the Antipodes last year.

Oh, and back to the original bit of the thread. I don't think the full picture can be judged until the end of the season. I was pretty pleased with the performance on Saturday but we need to produce a few times more yet.

 

[Pinchy]

All about "tipping point" though Pinch.

Alco has, strenuously in some cases, defended decisions right up until Blackmans removal. I lost patience (and my place in Blades Revival) the day Alan Kelly was sold and I know of one individual who has rarely been seen at BDTBL since TC left in '76. Each to their own.

You know full well you were almost "over the edge" when our best player headed for the Antipodes last year.

Yes, as you know I bought a pair of hand made Bruno Magli shoes and wore them in the car park for three days. You had a pair of Gucci's on if I'm not mistaken?

 

[Darren]

All about "tipping point" though Pinch.

Alco has, strenuously in some cases, defended decisions right up until Blackmans removal. I lost patience (and my place in Blades Revival) the day Alan Kelly was sold and I know of one individual who has rarely been seen at BDTBL since TC left in '76. Each to their own.

You know full well you were almost "over the edge" when our best player headed for the Antipodes last year.

Oh, and back to the original bit of the thread. I don't think the full picture can be judged until the end of the season. I was pretty pleased with the performance on Saturday but we need to produce a few times more yet.

I think some people have a highly inflated idea of United's place in the football scheme of things

The idea that, in 1976, we could have held on, as a 2nd divsion team to one of the top 5 midfielders in the country, and without two hapannies to rub together, is a bit far fetched....

 

[Grecian2000]

Not that I disagree Dazzler and I think TC's departure had an inevibility about it, but, in 1976 should we have chosen to hold onto a contracted player then he would have gone nowhere. Unlike today, when people seem to accept the idea that contracts are not worth the paper they are written on, those were very different times and players did as the clubs told them.
Alan Woodward (subject of my favourite thread on here for many a month) "asked for a transfer" on several occasions and was told it wasn't happening. Funnily enough this didn't result in him playing like a twat for years on end as we are led to believe would happen today.

As an aside our actual standing in the game in 1976 was somewhat better than anyone could dare to dream of today.

I'm wearing my calf skin Gucci's as we speak Pinch.

 

[metalblade]

So what happened to building a young team for the future ? Wasn't it said that too many loans and old players on short term deals was the reason we dropped into the third division ?

 

[Darren]

Not that I disagree Dazzler and I think TC's departure had an inevibility about it, but, in 1976 should we have chosen to hold onto a contracted player then he would have gone nowhere. Unlike today, when people seem to accept the idea that contracts are not worth the paper they are written on, those were very different times and players did as the clubs told them.
Alan Woodward (subject of my favourite thread on here for many a month) "asked for a transfer" on several occasions and was told it wasn't happening. Funnily enough this didn't result in him playing like a twat for years on end as we are led to believe would happen today.

As an aside our actual standing in the game in 1976 was somewhat better than anyone could dare to dream of today.

I'm wearing my calf skin Gucci's as we speak Pinch.

I kind of agree with you. The fact is in 1976, we had got (comparatively) massively into debt to build the south stand and had budgeted for 30K crowds and top tier football for the foreseeable future. Relegation left a massive financial black hole and given that TC was our most valuable asset, he had to be sold.

 

[broomhillblade]

alcoblade,
Mick Jones - Yes, protest.
Tony Currie - Yes, widespread civil unrest.
Jan-Aage - Yes, Violent Disorder.
Brian Deane - Yes, the ultimate: SHOES OFF!
Nick Blackman [for £1m+]........mmmm........OK then.

I was desolated when we let Colin Collindridge go to Nottingham Forest in 1950 ...

 

[broomhillblade]

So what happened to building a young team for the future ? Wasn't it said that too many loans and old players on short term deals was the reason we dropped into the third division ?

Maybe some of the younger 'development' players didn't develop as well as the Club had hoped.

In any case, on Saturday we started with Long and Maguire, and had Ironside and de Girolamo on the bench. Not a bad ratio of youth v experience.

 

[alcoblade]

alcoblade,
Mick Jones - Yes, protest.
Tony Currie - Yes, widespread civil unrest.
Jan-Aage - Yes, Violent Disorder.
Brian Deane - Yes, the ultimate: SHOES OFF!
Nick Blackman [for £1m+]........mmmm........OK then.

It's all relative. We sold out top scorer after 5 months rather than wait until the end of the season. Short sightedness, right up there with the best. If we don't go up this season, even todays apologists will be quoting this mistake when they finally see the light on the umpteenth future fuck up.

UTB

 

[alcoblade]

All about "tipping point" though Pinch.

Alco has, strenuously in some cases, defended decisions right up until Blackmans removal. I lost patience (and my place in Blades Revival) the day Alan Kelly was sold and I know of one individual who has rarely been seen at BDTBL since TC left in '76. Each to their own.

You know full well you were almost "over the edge" when our best player headed for the Antipodes last year.

Oh, and back to the original bit of the thread. I don't think the full picture can be judged until the end of the season. I was pretty pleased with the performance on Saturday but we need to produce a few times more yet.

That was a better answer.

UTB

 

[alcoblade]

Oh no, you have fallen victim to the "name calling instead of an argument" tendency!. Nurse, the screens!

I was as pissed off as the next man when we sold Blackman, but recent results and performances have led me to believe that Wilson might actually know what he is doing. As ever, the proof will be at the end of the season.

I didn't mean to name call by "McCabeophile" - call it "those who still believe in him", if you like.

UTB

 

[Pinchy]

It's all relative. We sold out top scorer after 5 months rather than wait until the end of the season. Short sightedness, right up there with the best. If we don't go up this season, even todays apologists will be quoting this mistake when they finally see the light on the umpteenth future fuck up.

UTB

We shall see. Personally I get the impression that most thought it a good deal. It flatters NB enormously, I think, to suggest that his absence would have a Chedesquely catastrophic effect on our prospects.

You say yourself we seem stronger now than before.

Not every player sale is a betrayal. This one was good business, like the equally controversial Slew. NB will, I fear, prove the point in much the same way as Jordan.

 

[Bladesway]

I think some people have a highly inflated idea of United's place in the football scheme of things

The idea that, in 1976, we could have held on, as a 2nd divsion team to one of the top 5 midfielders in the country, and without two hapannies to rub together, is a bit far fetched....

But hasn't time proved that no matter what division we have been in our club seems to have a "sell at the first chance" mentality that isn't condusive to going forward. Quick buck today may be great but don't we realistically need those players to build a better tomorrow?

Edwards, Cockerill, Currie, Tonge, Walker, Naughton, Kelly, Fjortoft, Deane (twice), Blackman, Quinn (s), Lowton, Stuart, Tyler, Holdsworth, Dellas, Borbokis, Walker, Blake, Beattie (J), Kilgallon. All off the top of my head sales we didn't HAVE to make. In the case of Beattie, Tonge and Kilgallon surely keeping them until the end of the season would have given us a better shot at promotion that season?

Jagielka, Morris, Slew, Tebily, Woodhouse. Ones we made that we didn't really get a choice on and/or were good business.

Over time it mounts up and I'm afraid the older you are the more of these moments you remember. Blackman isn't the biggest crime I'll admit (Deane to Leeds probably cost us most financially) but its 5 months into a players career with us having signed him under the "youth is the way forward and no more loans" banner.

 

[Grecian2000]

For me, the most dissappointing aspect of our current situation is the fact we have followed the "blueprint to destruction" that we put together in the Seventies almost to the letter.

Step 1. Bricks and Mortar are more impotrant than players.
Step 2. Sell your better players (initially to cover the B&M).
Step 3. Recruit lesser players to relace those in Step 2.
Step 4. Lesser players will serioulsy damage your league position and income.
Step 5. Go to Step 2 to cover the losses made by Step 4.

If ANY club should have learned from mistakes made in the past it as this one.

 

[alcoblade]

We shall see. Personally I get the impression that most thought it a good deal. It flatters NB enormously, I think, to suggest that his absence would have a Chedesquely catastrophic effect on our prospects.

You say yourself we seem stronger now than before.

Not every player sale is a betrayal. This one was good business, like the equally controversial Slew. NB will, I fear, prove the point in much the same way as Jordan.

I wasn't pissed off about the Slew sale. I wasn't pissed off about many sales - I am completely realistic about the need to sell players. I'm pissed off when we base our future on youth, get a youngster in and sell him after 5 months for pin money in the buyers terms. On top of it, we pretend we don't want to sell. Then after, we pretend (or some fans do) that it was part of a planned restructuring, even though we were dealing at 7PM on a Friday night, 2 hours before the window closed.

It's not my job to convince you, or others. I just join the ranks of the "mass pissed off" with the leadership of our club. Sadly ( I get no pleasure from us being a rudderless joke of a club), I think the fact that that list will continue to swell rather than shrink as proof enough.

UTB

 

[louthblade]

Agree, but only one of five are long term signings.

True, however would we want to keep the ones on short term contracts when we get promoted? we already have 3 on long term contracts on whom people are divided.

Could this be part of a plan, use them to get us up see who we think are good enough to keep us there and attempt to sign them on and do not resign the others

 

[judge]

We can always find excuses / reasons why we sell our best players at key times. God knows, I've done it enough over the years. I'm out of excuses now. The McCabeophiles can crack on - but most have seen through it now.


UTB

Can you name one of these mccabeophiles or did you just make them up ?