Billy and Bash

[bongleblade]

Offer them contracts. Basham could go for another 2 seasons in the Championship. Billy maybe another season but looking towards coaching and mentoring the young uns.

 

[Sheff de party]

If they can leave in Feb (or , rather, sign a pre contract for next season) that puts a different spin on it. More urgency would be needed - particularly if the club feels rivals will match or better their wages. Fans will always point the finger at the club: if they drop off massively during the term of the 'new' contracts, the question will be asked: Why did you give these old players this deal?! The question has been asked recently of Clarke, Stevens and Norwood. If they become injury prone the same question will be asked. There isn't many supporters demanding new deals for Fleck, Norwood, McGoldrick, Stevens etc. All top players for us. It's the nature of the beast. Don't disagree on your hypothetical deals by the way.

Yeah I’m also saying it as if I know. I expect they could do that in Feb but I don’t know for sure.

I’d still do it though. We need quite the rebuild and we aren’t going to have the cash to replace everyone. Hourihane, Fleck, Norwood, McGoldrick, Sharp, Basham and Gibbs-White could all realistically not be here next season.

 

[robbiez666]

I'm sorry but there's a definite lack of perspective here.

Neither player is good enough to start games regularly next season in this league.

So, if they're willing to take a large pay cut, and be a squad player, then fine. An extra year.

Otherwise, no.

You're literally taking up 2 squad places and £1 milion in wages (if they were to accept a paycut to £10k pw).

If there was a coaching angle as well, then that's different.

Our strikeforce next season is likely to include McBurnie, Brewster, Jebbo and Burke already. Unless someone's going to magically buy any of them.

With Billy that's no new striker. We might be able to loan one out but that's far from guaranteed.

 

[ISZA ⚔️]

The owners however arent involved through any connection with the club and see football as business

Loyalty is one thing, but runs a fine line towards sentiment. If you pay based on past achievements you'll soon end up in the mire.

Offering anything above 12 months for a player mid-30s is unnecessarily risky. Theres also no real incentive for the club to activate these clauses early. End of the day, both players are happy to stay and if the club want them to then they will.

Personally, both warrant another 12 months, certainly Bash - maybe Sharp on reduced terms as you'd hope for a diminished role (impact sub) with some of the younger guys coming to the fore.

Maybe Bill's interested in coaching and could form part of any longer deal?

The trouble with that is there’s always another club coming in with a 2-year deal ie Boro for Bash.

 

[Sirius]

The club is a business now, they don't have time for sensitivity. It's how it seems to me.

I agree. It seems they have no interest in football either. Kerching

 

[Isaw Joeshaw]

As others have said , keeping them should be a no brainer .

In their respective roles they are comfortably the best we have on our books and there is nothing to suggest that they will not continue to be so for at least another two years . Try and find two others who are remotely within our price range and wage structure who could offer the same level of consistency , effectiveness and commitment .

That being said , I don’t understand the “only keep them if they accept a wage cut “ philosophy which has been expressed in several posts . This would be understandable if such a move would have a significant beneficial effect on the club’s finances .

In fact , it would be be a mere drop in the ocean since both of them are already well down the earnings list with Billy earning massively less than the likes of Berge , Brewster , McBurnie and , amazingly , McGoldrick with Bash being even further behind .

 

[Champagneblade]

I'm sorry but there's a definite lack of perspective here.

Neither player is good enough to start games regularly next season in this league.

So, if they're willing to take a large pay cut, and be a squad player, then fine. An extra year.

Otherwise, no.

You're literally taking up 2 squad places and £1 milion in wages (if they were to accept a paycut to £10k pw).

If there was a coaching angle as well, then that's different.

Our strikeforce next season is likely to include McBurnie, Brewster, Jebbo and Burke already. Unless someone's going to magically buy any of them.

With Billy that's no new striker. We might be able to loan one out but that's far from guaranteed.

You've mentioned this a few times now on Basham.

He's still charging into opposition boxes at 33 and getting 7/10 performances each week.

Do you really think he won't be able to hold down a first team spot in 6 month's time? I can see Basham still playing on in the Championship at 37. He's one of the fittest players, if not the fittest at the club consistently each preseason.

Sharp could still eclipse his 18/19 goal return. In terms of number of games, you'd expect us to manage them and perhaps you take a look at his base level salary, but why would you drop him from your 5 options next season? The best thing you could do for Brewster and Jebbison is to be training with Sharp every day. If we bring a new guy in, there's potential transfer fee, additional agent fee and no guarantee he'd be a success.

We'd have to agree to disagree a bit here.

The only question is on salary level rather than whether they eventually stay.

A player on manageable wages who can still guarantee you double figure goals - only Feb and he's already on 9. Where are we getting one of those when money is tight?

 

[Weasel]

You've mentioned this a few times now on Basham.

He's still charging into opposition boxes at 33 and getting 7/10 performances each week.

Do you really think he won't be able to hold down a first team spot in 6 month's time? I can see Basham still playing on in the Championship at 37. He's one of the fittest players, if not the fittest at the club consistently each preseason.

Sharp could still eclipse his 18/19 goal return. In terms of number of games, you'd expect us to manage them and perhaps you take a look at his base level salary, but why would you drop him from your 5 options next season? The best thing you could do for Brewster and Jebbison is to be training with Sharp every day. If we bring a new guy in, there's potential transfer fee, additional agent fee and no guarantee he'd be a success.

We'd have to agree to disagree a bit here.

The only question is on salary level rather than whether they eventually stay.

A player on manageable wages who can still guarantee you double figure goals - only Feb and he's already on 9. Where are we getting one of those when money is tight?

Bang on the money this post. Bash 2 year deal, Billy 1 year deal with further 1 year added geared more towards coach than player if he wants to go down that route with the 2nd year being a wage decrease to account for probable less time in the pitch playing.

They might be becoming mature footballers but they are both probably in the best fitness condition of their lives and look after themselves. Bash is naturally a very fit lad. I agree that we should be making the majority of our decisions in the summer on players contracts and renewals but Bash n Billy should be the exception. Get offers made, get things agreed and signed and we have two very capable players in our squad sorted for next season. No brainer for me getting these two sorted out ASAP.

 

[lazyfecklessblade]

Look at it from the other side, if these 2 were available on a free in the summer - would you be upset if they were linked?

34 year old centre half, who recently did well in the top league, and the league’s record goal scorer - albeit at the tail of his career.

 

[Gretsch Blade]

Put it this way, if we don't offer them new contracts they'll be in the Middlesbrough squad before you can say Adrian LittleJohn!

 

[S64 Blade]

I’d give them both another year, with the option of a year again. Both continue to defy their age and expectations, but doing a year at a time helps manage any risk.

 

[robbiez666]

You've mentioned this a few times now on Basham.

He's still charging into opposition boxes at 33 and getting 7/10 performances each week.

I'm not sure what game you're watching here. He has been fairly inconsistent this season, by his own high standards. Even bombing forward, his end product has been worse. Made more mistakes in the defence as well and out of position more. It's to be expected. He's 33 and going to get physically less able to perform the role as he ages. He's not simply a RCB is he? It's a tough ask for a 20 year old to bomb forward and get back for 90 minutes once a week, let alone twice. I'd be happy with him getting another year, with a wage drop, as long as we're brining in someone who is good enough to start. It's a tough system to learn so it benefits us to have a 'teacher' here, but we need to end next season with that player starting really.

Do you really think he won't be able to hold down a first team spot in 6 month's time? I can see Basham still playing on in the Championship at 37. He's one of the fittest players, if not the fittest at the club consistently each preseason.

As I said above, he's not playing as a CB but a CB expected to keep bombing forward. He won't be doing that for 90 minutes once a week at 37.

Sharp could still eclipse his 18/19 goal return. In terms of number of games, you'd expect us to manage them and perhaps you take a look at his base level salary, but why would you drop him from your 5 options next season? The best thing you could do for Brewster and Jebbison is to be training with Sharp every day. If we bring a new guy in, there's potential transfer fee, additional agent fee and no guarantee he'd be a success.

Because we can probably only afford to have 4 senior strikers. We can't afford to pay him what he's currently on and his performances do not merit a starting place in a Championship side looking for promotion. The fact we have no one better doesn't make it right. The fact he's here might prevent us bringing someone else in. I've said it before. It's happily get shut of Burke and keep Billy as a back up on a smaller wage, but given we have very expensive strikers on our books it might not be a choice. Again, if we were talking about doing something around coaching then that's slightly different. If you take his penalties away, it's hardly an impressive tally for your 'top' striker.

We'd have to agree to disagree a bit here.

The only question is on salary level rather than whether they eventually stay.

A player on manageable wages who can still guarantee you double figure goals - only Feb and he's already on 9. Where are we getting one of those when money is tight?

Again, how many of those are pens? He's played 26 games in the league and scored 5 from open play and 3 pens (they still need to be scored, obviously). Again, as a back up striker on a lower wage then, yes.

I'm shaking my head at the comments on this thread. After Preston lots of people were kicking off about giving old players long expensive contracts and then a few good results and they want to do it again. We'll likely have a senior squad of say 20 next season. Having players we're carrying and maybe can't play regularly is not something we can afford to do given the shape of the squad.

 

[Blad]

I think it will be down to what division we are in, if we managed to get up would Billy be worth a contract in the Premier League? Sadly not for me. I'd certainly give bash a deal though.

 

[PaulHalfway]

I guess it depends on the wage demands they want. We are 20 million down on sky income next year, so the wage bill will have to be cut accordingly

 

[petcharlie]

United have the power. It's categorically not in our interest to trigger the extensions until the last game of the season is over. How daft would we be if they got a long term injury during the last game of the season? The possibility also exists that the club might negotiate a longer deal or different deal with a lower basic than is in the contract. This is the power you get when the club has the extension option rather than the player.

Or maybe the players might get a offer from some other club and think i am going to grab the offer and f--k off.

 

[petcharlie]

I think it will be down to what division we are in, if we managed to get up would Billy be worth a contract in the Premier League? Sadly not for me. I'd certainly give bash a deal though.

He could possibly be used to coach others at the club to teach them how to put the bloody ball in the net.

 

[FallowfieldBlade]

I would give Bash 2 years as he could pay till he is 40 and give Bill 1 year

Id get them both to do there coaching badges whilst they are at it they are the two biggest blades legends in the past 20 years imo

 

[Champagneblade]

I'm not sure what game you're watching here. He has been fairly inconsistent this season, by his own high standards. Even bombing forward, his end product has been worse. Made more mistakes in the defence as well and out of position more. It's to be expected. He's 33 and going to get physically less able to perform the role as he ages. He's not simply a RCB is he? It's a tough ask for a 20 year old to bomb forward and get back for 90 minutes once a week, let alone twice. I'd be happy with him getting another year, with a wage drop, as long as we're brining in someone who is good enough to start. It's a tough system to learn so it benefits us to have a 'teacher' here, but we need to end next season with that player starting really.

As I said above, he's not playing as a CB but a CB expected to keep bombing forward. He won't be doing that for 90 minutes once a week at 37.

Because we can probably only afford to have 4 senior strikers. We can't afford to pay him what he's currently on and his performances do not merit a starting place in a Championship side looking for promotion. The fact we have no one better doesn't make it right. The fact he's here might prevent us bringing someone else in. I've said it before. It's happily get shut of Burke and keep Billy as a back up on a smaller wage, but given we have very expensive strikers on our books it might not be a choice. Again, if we were talking about doing something around coaching then that's slightly different. If you take his penalties away, it's hardly an impressive tally for your 'top' striker.



Again, how many of those are pens? He's played 26 games in the league and scored 5 from open play and 3 pens (they still need to be scored, obviously). Again, as a back up striker on a lower wage then, yes.

I'm shaking my head at the comments on this thread. After Preston lots of people were kicking off about giving old players long expensive contracts and then a few good results and they want to do it again. We'll likely have a senior squad of say 20 next season. Having players we're carrying and maybe can't play regularly is not something we can afford to do given the shape of the squad.

I wouldn't say we are overly playing overlapping centre backs at the moment.

I certainly don't watch the game and think Basham's struggling to keep up with play. He is one of our fittest players. Next season is only 6 months away. I just don't expect this level of deteriation you do. He's a shoo-in right now. He's got to drop a lot to go from there to not even being retained.

As well as seeing all the games this season, have a look at DB and Pommpey's post game comments. He more than holds his own against his contemporaries.

Again though, I don't expect you to align to my world view. It is about opinions. But I'll be glad to have both of these guys in the trenches with us next season. Just my view and even FallowfieldBlade agrees!

 

[Bladesman]