Best formation with what we've got

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BrisBlade

BrisBlade

Stop... Hamer time!
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With the window closed now seems a good time to talk best approach with the players we've got. I would work on developing a hybrid formation...

When we're defending: 4-4-1-1

Cooper
Gilchrist Souttar Anel Burrows
JRS Blaster Souza Hamer
O' Hare
Moore

When we're attacking: Shift to 3-2-4-1

Cooper
Gilchrist Souttar Anel
Blaster Souza
JRS O'Hare Hamer Burrows
Moore

If we could learn to transition, I reckon this gives Hamer a free role when we've got the ball and pushes Burrows up to provide service in to Moore.

Interested to hear other views.
 

4-2-3-1 as we’ve played all Summer and in the games so far.

Cooper
Anel Souttar Robinson Burrows
Arblaster Souza
Rak-Sayki O’Hare Hamer
Moore

Subs:- Davies, Gilchrist, Shackleton, RND, Peck, Brooks, Brewster, Campbell, One

Anel at right back is a more attacking option than Gilchrist. Gives us an overlapping threat on both wings when the wide forwards cut inside. Also increases our aerial prowess offensively and defensively by having him, Souttar and Robinson all in the team. Plus we then still have the option of JLT’s long throws.

Can Anel play right back? I think he can at least as well as Gilchrist who is also out of position there. If it doesn’t work, Seriki would be a similar attacking threat once he is fit again.

We really needed another target man bringing in as a substitute/alternative to Moore but that man will have to be One for now.

Are there any decent target men available as free agents? Can we get Egan back as defensive cover if he can prove his fitness?
 
I think biggest conundrums at the moment are:
1) Figuring out LCB
2) Figuring out the left sided attacking position
3) Finding a way to get Hamer more central and involved, without sacrificing O’Hare

Some thoughts:
  • I’d like to see if we can play a right-footer at LCB. Souttar and Anel are clearly our best CBs and have the makings of a strong partnership, if we can get one of them comfortable on the left (no idea if we can but worth a try)
  • If we do that, I’d want a more solid defensive LB than burrows. Ideally a fit RND but maybe McCallum? (I’ve never seen him play). If Gilchrist is RB, then that is a very solid and tall back four, with enough ability on the ball to play out the back.
  • Interested to see Burrows on the wide left of attack (Currently Hamer’s role). I know that gives an odd balance if you have an inverted winger on the other side but I’d still try him there. Looks like he has goals and assists in him.

Ok, so now the tricky part - squeezing Hamer and O’Hare in their best positions. Couple of random ideas to discuss.
1) Drop Arblaster and play Sousa as a single pivot at the base with O’Hare and Hamer in front. Would leave us more open but would be a bold move. Those two going forward with, say, JRS and Cambell out wide and cutting in could be amazing. Harsh on blaster - but he’ll need a rest at some point so maybe try it then.
2) Drop Souza and replace him with Hamer. So Hamer and Arblaster as the two sitting midfielders, both with a license to join the attacks while the other one stays. Bit tough on Souza.
3) Drop Moore and play O’Hare as a ‘false nine’ at the top of a diamond, with Hamer and blaster in the middle and Souza at the base. Funky Bielsa-style thinking. Very much doubt wilder would ever go into a game without a central striker. But he did come up with overlapping Center halves, so you never know.

just for a laugh, this is what I’d play in Sunday:

—————————Cooper——————

—Gilchrist——Anel——Souttar——RND—

————————-Souza———————

—————Hamer—————Arblaster

————————-O’Hare———————-

———-JRS————————-Burrows—-


Let cleverly try to figure that one out!
 
SGBlade said:
If we do that, I’d want a more solid defensive LB than burrows. Ideally a fit RND but maybe McCallum? (I’ve never seen him play). If Gilchrist is RB, then that is a very solid and tall back four, with enough ability on the ball to play out the back.
Click to expand...
I saw a bit of the preseason matches and the game the other night and for McCallum see Max Lowe.

I don’t think Gilchrist is a right back but as he’s come and accepted the number 2 shirt he may be ok with it.

Anel and Souttar are our strongest pairing and therefore should play, you never used to need a left footed centre back to function in a 4 at the back formation, it seems to be a fad at the moment that it needs to be the case (wrong footed wingers who come inside and curl a shot 1 in 100 are the same as well, Pep does it so everyone else has to).
 
Honestly. It’s back to a 5.

Seriki or Sachdev or Shacks Anel Souttar Robbo Burrows.

Fuck knows what we do at the top of the pitch as I might suggest One may now have a pathway to minutes when he really should be out on loan !

Incredibly short sighted not to bring at least 1 more (I’d have got 2) CFs in to the building. This will become hugely apparent in the coming weeks.

UTB
 
4-2-3-1 or a 4-1-4-1. I think Wilder was looking at a hybrid 4-3-3 with the two wide players up top being wingers, but he couldn't bring in a left winger. He experimented with this last season when he played Archer, Brereton-Diaz and Osula together with Archer and BBD acting as wingers in support of Osula. It was then one time we actually looked like an attacking threat. With no pace in the remaining front line I can't see him using this now until January.
 
souttar is a gimme but for me it has to be either anel or gilchrist as a pairing with the other going to right back dont think you have to be left footed in a back 4 robinson would be on the bench for me
 
I don't think we should be making too many judgements about formations, tactics, the manager or the players after just 3 league games, especially during the first window of a massive rebuild.

However, I do think we need to play Hamer centrally. So that's either Hamer and Arblaster in CM with O'Hare as a #10 (this is what I'd do), or Souza and Arblaster with Hamer as a #10 and O'Hare on the left.
 

Brooks has been better than JRS so far.
You can't drop Gilchrist totally, hes to good.
Moore doesn't look great.
OHare only has 45mins in him.
 
We need to pray Shackleton or Seriki are up to it at RWB because this current setup won't last another month

Cooper
Anel Souttar Robinson
Shackleriki Hamer Arblaster McBurrows
Sakyi O'Hare
Moore


I know, it still seems so wrong...... but don't blame me, I can only work with what I've got!
 
I would go 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-1-2 if we are losing the central midfield battle as we were second half against QPR.

Cooper
Gilchrist-Anel-Souttar-Burrows
Arblaster-Souza
Rak-Sakyi/Brooks-O'Hare-Hamer
Moore

Cooper
Gilchrist-Anel-Souttar-Burrows
Hamer-Souza- Arblaster
O'Hare
Moore & one of Brewster/One/Rak-Sakyi/Campbell
 
Sorry to be boring, but I actually think it's the system and starting 11 we have been playing. Let's be honest, we haven't played badly in most of the games where this team has started, it's just a lack of ruthlessness up front and anonymous 2nd half showings that are letting us down at the moment.

Our main strength is the 3 behind a lone striker (as our current striker depth is non existent) linking up and creating chances for each other, supported by the Blaster/Souza pivot, and this formation makes the best of what we have in that respect.

We also need to give Souta and JLT a chance to form a decent partnership. I can't quite believe that some folk are advocating for Anel to start. I will take a fired up and committed JLT or RND, to start over that mardy twat every day of the week, and twice on a Sunday.

---------------------Cooper--------------------
Gilchrist-----Soutar-----JLT------Burrows
------------Blaster--------Souza-------------
-------Brooks----O'Hare-----Hamer-------
---------------------Moore---------------------

Bench:
Davies
RND
Anel
McCallum
Sariki
Shackleton
Rak-Sakyi
Campbell
Brewster

Marsh, Hampson, Sachdev and One are all in the next cab off the rank in case of injuries.
 
Last edited:
---------------------Cooper--------------------
Gilchrist-------Anal--------Souttar----Burrows
-------------Arblaster-------Souza-------------
---Rak-Sakyi---------Hamer---------Brooks---
----------------------Moore--------------------
 
Wincobank S9 Blade said:
O’Hare reminds me of a b.tech Grealish, I’d be tempted to try him down the left and Hamer more central.
Click to expand...
Yep I agree. I like O’Hare and think we would rip it up in the Duffy role in this division, if we still played that system. But Hamer is the class act in the team. Proper Prem midfielder. If one of them need to sacrifice and play out of position, it should be O’Hare.
 
IMG_1842.pngThat would be my ideal line up/formation. Stop fucking about with Hamer on the wing where he’s wasted, he often drifts into a central position whilst O’Hare drifts wide.

lol comments at the depth we’ve got in a couple of positions.
 
4-3-3

Gilchrist
Souttar
Anel
Burrows
Hamer
Blaster
O’Hare
Campbell
Moore
Brooks/JRS

By pushing the wingers up into a front 3 and playing a flat midfield three you compensate for the lack of wingers by having them function more as wide forwards allowing you to get the most out of Campbell. It also lets you get some support for Moore and take a bit of the goal scoring responsibility off him. You compensate for O’Hare/Hamer not being a true winger by asking them to play as a wide CM rather than a winger and so you give them space to operate in and link in wide areas and drift centrally as they choose whilst not hampering the team by not being able to get to the byline and put in deliveries.
 
When more than 2 key players injured
1-8-1-1
When both are strikers
1–9–1-0
 
When we get Seriki back from injury (not sure this will work with Shackleton) that could give us the option of changing from a back 4 to a back 5 using subs.
4-2-3-1

------------------Cooper
Gilchrist-Souttar-Anel-Burrows
-----------Arblaster-Souza
--------Brooks-O'Hare-Hamer
--------------------Moore

For example, let's say we take Brooks off and bring Seriki on we could change to something like this.
3-4-2-1

------------------Cooper
--------Gilchrist-Anel-Souttar
Seriki-Arblaster-Souza-Burrows
-------O'Hare-----------Hamer
------------------Moore
 
Railway Blade said:
I would go 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-1-2 if we are losing the central midfield battle as we were second half against QPR.

Cooper
Gilchrist-Anel-Souttar-Burrows
Arblaster-Souza
Rak-Sakyi/Brooks-O'Hare-Hamer
Moore

Cooper
Gilchrist-Anel-Souttar-Burrows
Hamer-Souza- Arblaster
O'Hare
Moore & one of Brewster/One/Rak-Sakyi/Campbell
Click to expand...

Agree we lost the momentum of the game in the second half vs QPR.

Stats from 45-70 minutes:
1725110025940.png

Shows we struggled.

Then we dropped Hamer into an 8 role to help out Souza and Arblaster. O'Hare went to the left. So more of a 4-5-1/4-3-3.

Stats from 71-89 minutes:

1725110274423.png

There were of course other variables, including their sending off and their substitutions. But during this spell we gradually took over possession. But they still kept getting shots in, and moments later got the equaliser.

If we accept that strengthening midfield was what we needed to do, I think it may have had a greater effect to make a substitution, putting on a midfielder with fresh legs to help deal with them running through us.

Giving attack minded players like Hamer and O'Hare more defensive work load late on may not be ideal.

Wilder and his staff are still learning about what this set of players can and can't do in different match scenarios.
 

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