Ben Whiteman

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SUFC Handsworth said:
I thought Whiteman played well in the first XI last season, it was around the time when Adkins was raving about giving the young 'uns a go, then he subsequently dropped him, after he'd done well and the team were winning! Also been impressed with Whiteman when I've seen him in the U23/U21s, can't quite understand why he hasn't at least been on the bench.

He's the only one of a Basham type midfielder at the club, in fact I'd say he's like Basham except with more bite and a better range of passing. Now Basham's suspended I'd give him a go.
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Disagree about the “more bite” bit. I think he’s a bit softer than Bash which is to be expected given his age. I don’t think he’s as good at getting box to box as Bash is either but he does have some decent attributes and I wouldn’t be totally against him getting a game or two in Basham’s absence. That said, I think Scougall will be the one to come in and given that he’s directly contributed to 3 goals for the team so far this season, I’ve no real qualms with that. Think it will be


-------------------Moore

Freeman---EEL-----O Connell---Lafferty

Duffy-------Coutts—Fleck-----Scougall

--------------Sharp----Done
 



SUFC Handsworth said:
Last season when Whiteman was given a chance in the first XI he looked the part, in comparison Basham when played in midfield has generally been very average. Odd exception apart, Basham doesn't stamp his authority on proceedings, doesn't boss the game and generally is just a wall flower in midfield. What I've seen of Whiteman, he does have a bit of bite about him and has a decent range of passing, all the things Basham is generally short of in midfield.

For me, over the past 2 seasons + Basham has generally been a weak line in our midfield.
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I guess we all see it differently but I would say during the time he’s been here, Basham has been our most consistent central midfielder (not saying much I know). Whiteman had some decent games last season (Oldham at home for example) with a couple of poor ones thrown in (really struggled at Coventry by all accounts).
 
alcoblade said:
Put your funny back in, idiot.

Don't go off my rating, ask why Wilder thinks Basham is in front of Whiteman.

"Give'emarun, give'emallarun" Pinchy :)

UTB
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Gives it but cant take it so put your funny back in

As for the idiot comment Its pretty clear what my point was but seeing as you seem a bit thick I will spell it out. Basham isn't actually that good,the fact he's been an integral part of the team since he came and we've been stuck in the third tier all the time proves that and I haven't seen any Championship sides trying to take him off our hands. Maybe, just maybe Whiteman could be better but feel free to write him off....its the Blades way
 
1danewhitehouse said:
I guess we all see it differently but I would say during the time he’s been here, Basham has been our most consistent central midfielder (not saying much I know). Whiteman had some decent games last season (Oldham at home for example) with a couple of poor ones thrown in (really struggled at Coventry by all accounts).
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Don't think anyone really shone at Cov.

I feel like all the young lads will benefit from being introduced into a side with confidence, rather than thrown in cos it can't get any worse like last year and playing all sorts of formations. Hopefully, a team with a clear plan and identity will make knowing their role and hence performing much easier - which can only help young lads.
 
FriethBlade said:
Gives it but cant take it so put your funny back in

As for the idiot comment Its pretty clear what my point was but seeing as you seem a bit thick I will spell it out. Basham isn't actually that good,the fact he's been an integral part of the team since he came and we've been stuck in the third tier all the time proves that and I haven't seen any Championship sides trying to take him off our hands. Maybe, just maybe Whiteman could be better but feel free to write him off....its the Blades way
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As I said, the manager disagrees, clearly rating Basham up with Keane and Gerrard, as you suggest.

Thanks for the view from the burger stand, either way ;)

UTB
 
Basham was a clear massive downgrade on Michael Doyle, that's how good Basham is as an enforcer. He's the best we've got, but that doesn't mean he's particularly good at it.

This season he's got gradually better, but he wasn't exactly the only shining star in the games we were losing, his inability to protect the defence in a 4-4-2 was a contributing factor in those defeats. The change in formation suited him better, now just when he'd started to prove his worth to the team, he got himself suspended. That creates an opportunity for somebody else and Whiteman would probably the most direct swap for Basham's normal midfield role, but if we go with a back three it'll be a defender that replaces him, not Whiteman.
 
Bladeinleeds said:
Don't think anyone really shone at Cov.

I feel like all the young lads will benefit from being introduced into a side with confidence, rather than thrown in cos it can't get any worse like last year and playing all sorts of formations. Hopefully, a team with a clear plan and identity will make knowing their role and hence performing much easier - which can only help young lads.
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Agreed. Which is why I would have stuck with Clough. He had the kids playing the same system as the first team and was committed to a plan. He had his faults and shot himself in the foot more than once on recruitment but there was a long term plan in place that would have helped the kids integrate. Let’s hope we see that develop under Wilder.
 
Ginger Gnome said:
Basham was a clear massive downgrade on Michael Doyle, that's how good Basham is as an enforcer. He's the best we've got, but that doesn't mean he's particularly good at it.

This season he's got gradually better, but he wasn't exactly the only shining star in the games we were losing, his inability to protect the defence in a 4-4-2 was a contributing factor in those defeats. The change in formation suited him better, now just when he'd started to prove his worth to the team, he got himself suspended. That creates an opportunity for somebody else and Whiteman would probably the most direct swap for Basham's normal midfield role, but if we go with a back three it'll be a defender that replaces him, not Whiteman.
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Basham and Doyle play different roles. Doyle is a specialist DM, Basham is not. He’s more bore box to box. Comparisons are drawn because they are both better at breaking up play than playing themselves but Basham doesn’t have the positional discipline of Doyle to play that role and Doyle doesn’t have the legs or the aerial ability of Basham to play the box to box role. I'd say Basham was a downgrade from Coady because that's the player he essentially replaced.
 
1danewhitehouse said:
Agreed. Which is why I would have stuck with Clough. He had the kids playing the same system as the first team and was committed to a plan. He had his faults and shot himself in the foot more than once on recruitment but there was a long term plan in place that would have helped the kids integrate. Let’s hope we see that develop under Wilder.
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I respectfully disagree. Clough's recruitment and planning in 2014/15 was borderline negligent. We ended that season playing two fullbacks at centre half while two centre halves kicked their heels in the stands, remember?
 
1danewhitehouse said:
Agreed. Which is why I would have stuck with Clough. He had the kids playing the same system as the first team and was committed to a plan. He had his faults and shot himself in the foot more than once on recruitment but there was a long term plan in place that would have helped the kids integrate. Let’s hope we see that develop under Wilder.
Click to expand...

Agree the younger lads looked better under clough - but given the way he held grudges and seemed to take a dislike of certain players who never found their way back. I can't see it being rosey for the young lads indefinitely

Agree full with the point about ending up playing 4 fullbacks - made a rod for his own back which ultimately got him the sack.

The one thing we haven't seen from wilder yet is that he's willing to give young players a chance. I know they need to be good enough but there seems less focus on a pathway to he first team and most of his signings have been older players. Hopefully we start seeing some players getting meaning full minuets and contributing once they prove themselves
 
1danewhitehouse said:
Disagree about the “more bite” bit. I think he’s a bit softer than Bash which is to be expected given his age. I don’t think he’s as good at getting box to box as Bash is either but he does have some decent attributes and I wouldn’t be totally against him getting a game or two in Basham’s absence. That said, I think Scougall will be the one to come in and given that he’s directly contributed to 3 goals for the team so far this season, I’ve no real qualms with that. Think it will be


-------------------Moore

Freeman---EEL-----O Connell---Lafferty

Duffy-------Coutts—Fleck-----Scougall

--------------Sharp----Done
Click to expand...

I think Sharp will play a bit deeper than Done in a 4-2-3-1 set up, but that XI is likely. Only two players with any sort of aerial ability is a weakness, but hopefully we'll cope and I don't think Bristol Rovers are the most physical of teams either.
 
Bladeinleeds said:
Agree the younger lads looked better under clough - but given the way he held grudges and seemed to take a dislike of certain players who never found their way back. I can't see it being rosey for the young lads indefinitely

Agree full with the point about ending up playing 4 fullbacks - made a rod for his own back which ultimately got him the sack.

The one thing we haven't seen from wilder yet is that he's willing to give young players a chance. I know they need to be good enough but there seems less focus on a pathway to he first team and most of his signings have been older players. Hopefully we start seeing some players getting meaning full minuets and contributing once they prove themselves
Click to expand...
So far it'sbeen a bit difficult to give youngsters a chance as we've only just got over the disappointments of the first 3 or 4 games following a bit of a recovery.
If we can get a couple more wins, then we see if they get a chance! :)
 
Bartyblade said:
So far it'sbeen a bit difficult to give youngsters a chance as we've only just got over the disappointments of the first 3 or 4 games following a bit of a recovery.
If we can get a couple more wins, then we see if they get a chance! :)
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Agreed. my original point was along the lines of the young lads will do better in a winning side that knows how it wants to play.

Long season and I'm sure injuries and suspensions will see chances ready to be taken. They need to to what the likes of Harry did and make themselves impossible to drop
 
Bladeinleeds said:
Agree the younger lads looked better under clough - but given the way he held grudges and seemed to take a dislike of certain players who never found their way back. I can't see it being rosey for the young lads indefinitely
Click to expand...

These "grudges" he held. Haven't subsequent managers rooted out the same individuals as being not good enough or bad influences in exactly the same way?
Collins, McNulty, De G, Adams, Long - All "unfairly treated" according to people on here by being dropped by Clough (or not played enough in Adams case) but have fallen foul even now he's not here bullying them still.
 



Wasn't really a wise ideal to leave himself with
Grecian2000 said:
These "grudges" he held. Haven't subsequent managers rooted out the same individuals as being not good enough or bad influences in exactly the same way?
Collins, McNulty, De G, Adams, Long - All "unfairly treated" according to people on here by being dropped by Clough (or not played enough in Adams case) but have fallen foul even now he's not here bullying them still.
Click to expand...

Well DDG and Adams are both at clubs in the league above. And it wasn't actually stellar management to go into the play offs having to play 4 fullbacks because you'd alienated all 3 of your contracted centre backs.

Maybe stuff went on behind closed doors but most of these players didn't actually seem to do owt wrong. My opinion is he was too proud to back down after he'd been 'disrespected' in someway if the players aren't good enough there's no need to be a twat to them is there??

Wilder bombed out freeman and coutts but atleast had the balls to back down when they showed their worth - just like Adams did.
 
Grecian2000 said:
These "grudges" he held. Haven't subsequent managers rooted out the same individuals as being not good enough or bad influences in exactly the same way?
Collins, McNulty, De G, Adams, Long - All "unfairly treated" according to people on here by being dropped by Clough (or not played enough in Adams case) but have fallen foul even now he's not here bullying them still.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. De Juve wasn't really bad; he was just drawn that way....
 
Balham Blade said:
I respectfully disagree. Clough's recruitment and planning in 2014/15 was borderline negligent. We ended that season playing two fullbacks at centre half while two centre halves kicked their heels in the stands, remember?
Click to expand...



I know, as I said, he shot himself in the foot on several occasions when it came to recruitment and falling out with players but he knew the system he wanted to play and as a club, we had set up in a way that had us doing the same things at all levels to help with integration. That sort of thing can bear fruit If you give it time.
 
Bergen Blade said:
I think Sharp will play a bit deeper than Done in a 4-2-3-1 set up, but that XI is likely. Only two players with any sort of aerial ability is a weakness, but hopefully we'll cope and I don't think Bristol Rovers are the most physical of teams either.
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It’s a good job one of them has the aerial ability of 10 men! EEL immense again when most of the team were very average. I hope Wright’s back for the weekend though as we look infinitely better playing the 352 system in my opinion. Sharp and Done as a partnership need us to be able to get the ball down and play through the thirds and we only seem to manage that with the 352.
 
Very well done BW!!!

Am i correct in thinking they were sitting near the bottom of the league when he joined? Now they are 2 points off the play-offs!

Great move for the lad lets hope he can help get them promoted. They really want hin to stay.
 
SUFCinks said:
Very well done BW!!!

Am i correct in thinking they were sitting near the bottom of the league when he joined? Now they are 2 points off the play-offs!

Great move for the lad lets hope he can help get them promoted. They really want hin to stay.
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When Evans became Manager, I think they'd slipped down to about 17th. However, if memory serves me correct, only about 5 points off the play-offs

They've had a mixed bag of results since Evans appointment, but seem to be finding their feet now and possibly BW is making a difference

When Evans joined I stuck a tenner on them making the play-offs @ 5/1 so come on Ben and come on Mansfield
 



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