Ben Osborn

[Houston_Blade]

I find it both hilarious and slightly troubling that grown men, many of whom i assume are parents, with jobs and the right to vote - watch that game on Saturday and their reaction is to come on here and bash Osborn and Basham.

Fascinating to see how the human mind works...

It probably says more about our recruitment and the timing of new players coming in than anything else.

I’d like a statto to tell me the last time Basham started a league game in midfield for us.

He was played there probably because even with minimal preseason minutes he’s fitter than the players who have been brought in.

 

[AWetFlannel]

Playing in and being good enough for, are two very different things.

See Oli Burke.

I know. Who said he was good enough for the PL? Your claim is that he wouldn't start in most Championship teams.

 

[loyalblade95]

I thought he played well generally too although he could have done better for their goal.

Yeah, I'm just surprised he ended up in that situation, unless he was dropping deep to help Lowe as they were exploiting our left hand side all game.

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

It probably says more about our recruitment and the timing of new players coming in than anything else.

I’d like a statto to tell me the last time Basham started a league game in midfield for us.

He was played there probably because even with minimal preseason minutes he’s fitter than the players who have been brought in.

Bearing in mind what happened to Luton, Burnley, Villa - i thought we held it together pretty well.

Hammering Osborn/Basham in what will likely be the only game they start this season is ridiculous to the point of parody. Grown men can't seriously look at what's going on at the club and take their frustration on two grizzled pros who consistently put in 6/10 performances.

Osborn particularly seems to be a lightening rid for some people. I've only ever seen him put in solid displays. I reckon he's fantastic to have in the squad, at the training ground, in the dressing room.

 

[coolasanidiot]

Bash/ Osborn/ Norwood- ran themselves to a standstill on Saturday- we all know they ain't good enough- but that isn't their fault and neither was them being picked- FFS get off their backs. The fault lays squarely at the board for allowing it to get to this stage and the timings you couldn't make it up.

But these lads are fucking heroes to a man.

 

[Tony_Kaufman]

Just watched it and don’t blame Ben O, maybe he could have blocked it but we had three players around their one who scored

I don't blame Osborn either. Ayew was quicker than him, there's nothing Ozzy could do. If a player has faster pace then they have faster pace. Why was Ozzy tracking him back when Lowe should've already been back there waiting for Ayew to run towards him?

As for four players in the box marking two players and they still win the ball and score, that's the real issue. That's why they scored not because Ozzy didn't block the cross. I'm sorry but Egan should not be captain. He doesn't organise and communicate with his back line enough. During Slavs time in charge and the relegation season we saw this happen time and time again. Players going unmarked in the box when crosses came in. How many cheap goals has Egan been responsible for over the last three seasons. He's a great player but very much reminds me of Chris Morgan, who could be great for four games then switched off in another game costing us goals and a result.

For me Baldock should be the captain. He never stops barking orders at players and communicating with them. He plays like a captain and deserves it.

 

[Mouth of the South]

Sorry - he's not for me. I can't fault his effort and attitude but he's so far away from the required level it's untrue - he spends all game chasing around and on the odd occasion he gets the ball he passes it backwards or sideways.

I don't think he gets anywhere near any other Prem side and I can't see how he'd get into the majority of Champ sides.

Like Fleck, I think his renewal was a waste of a wage - I'd prefer for Brooks to be given the chance. He at least looks more comfortable in possessions and looks to move the ball forward/create.

 

[metalblade]

Osborn was our best midfielder on Saturday, by an absolute mile

And that I'm afraid says everything you need to know about the state of Saturdays midfield

 

[Panini]

I’m not knocking Osborn, he’s always a 100% player and like I said in another thread Blades will always forgive a lack of ability if we can see people working their bollocks off which he always does. I just don’t think he’s premier league quality which isn’t a criticism of him more the situation we’ve found ourselves in where he’s the best option in that position

I completely agree.

However he's still a level above Basham, who can be forgiven and is a hero, and two levels above Norwood, who is still being selected in his specialist position and is nowhere near good enough to justify it.

He's in the team for one thing, because he doesn't have any other attributes, but he either doesn't do that one thing or is poor at it.

 

[Slim Man]

I completely agree.

However he's still a level above Basham, who can be forgiven and is a hero, and two levels above Norwood, who is still being selected in his specialist position and is nowhere near good enough to justify it.

He's in the team for one thing, because he doesn't have any other attributes, but he either doesn't do that one thing or is poor at it.

I've read some shite in my time, but saying Ben Osborn is two levels above Norwood who is admittedly out of sorts, but definitely one of the best midfielders we've had in living memory is up there with absolutely any of it.

 

[Yellarbellyblade]

I completely agree.

However he's still a level above Basham, who can be forgiven and is a hero, and two levels above Norwood, who is still being selected in his specialist position and is nowhere near good enough to justify it.

He's in the team for one thing, because he doesn't have any other attributes, but he either doesn't do that one thing or is poor at it.

Bash should never be in midfield for us and I suspect may never be again when the new signings are up to speed. Norwood is fine when he has time on the ball, under pressure he struggles. That said if he had better players around him we wouldn’t have to rely just on him for the magical pass.

 

[Panini]

...the last time Basham started a league game in midfield for us.

Fulham away in the relegation season, 20th Feb 2021

 

[Slim Man]

Bash should never be in midfield for us and I suspect may never be again when the new signings are up to speed. Norwood is fine when he has time on the ball, under pressure he struggles. That said if he had better players around him we wouldn’t have to rely just on him for the magical pass.

Exactly. Who on Saturday could he actually give the ball to for a quick give and go? He has my sympathy for that alone

 

[Carlton Blade]

I completely agree.

However he's still a level above Basham, who can be forgiven and is a hero, and two levels above Norwood, who is still being selected in his specialist position and is nowhere near good enough to justify it.

He's in the team for one thing, because he doesn't have any other attributes, but he either doesn't do that one thing or is poor at it.

Insert ‘that’s bait’ gif

 

[Wards]

Let's be right, not Norwood's finest game but still the only actual footballer in that 11 we put out on Saturday. Still the only one composed enough to take a touch under pressure and at least try to play a bit. Still the only one creating space for himself without resorting to running around like a headless chicken.

 

[Panini]

Norwood is fine when he has time on the ball, under pressure he struggles. That said if he had better players around him we wouldn’t have to rely just on him for the magical pass.

It's football, not footgolf. If you need the opposition to leave you alone so you can play, you're not a Premier League player. Or even a Championship player. It's not even true, he misplaces far too many passes even when he has time and space.

People talk about him as if it's 2019. If being wasteful, slow, weak and no better on dead balls than anyone else is acceptable because every couple of games there's a ping out to Baldock then we get what we ask for.

Better players around him? He had Berge around him for 3 and a half years and Ndiaye around him for 2. He's always had wing-backs showing for him too.

I appreciate we can point to his stats from the first part of last season but had he not been dropped for Doyle from Sunderland away onwards, I'm certain we wouldn't have gone up.

He was the worst player in the relegation season and he was the worst player on Saturday. He doesn't have Bash's fitness or Osborn's versatility and work rate. Sure, both players will do something weird from time to time that makes you eyeroll but Norwood is just consistently below average at the things he's supposed bring to the team and has nothing else to offer when that isn't working.

 

[Slim Man]

It's football, not footgolf. If you need the opposition to leave you alone so you can play, you're not a Premier League player. Or even a Championship player. It's not even true, he misplaces far too many passes even when he has time and space.

People talk about him as if it's 2019. If being wasteful, slow, weak and no better on dead balls than anyone else is acceptable because every couple of games there's a ping out to Baldock then we get what we ask for.

Better players around him? He had Berge around him for 3 and a half years and Ndiaye around him for 2. He's always had wing-backs showing for him too.

I appreciate we can point to his stats from the first part of last season but had he not been dropped for Doyle from Sunderland away onwards, I'm certain we wouldn't have gone up.

He was the worst player in the relegation season and he was the worst player on Saturday. He doesn't have Bash's fitness or Osborn's versatility and work rate. Sure, both players will do something weird from time to time that makes you eyeroll but Norwood is just consistently below average at the things he's supposed bring to the team and has nothing else to offer when that isn't working.

He was only our most creative player of all last season. And the lynchpin to our first promotion to the premier league.

There's a reason he's been promoted to the premier league so many times.

Saying Ben Osborn is better than him at all apart from running about is genuinely fucking crazy.

 

[Panini]

He was only our most creative player of all last season. And the lynchpin to our first promotion to the premier league.

There's a reason he's been promoted to the premier league so many times.

Saying Ben Osborn is better than him at all apart from running about is genuinely fucking crazy.

Last season? That very much depends how you measure creativity. He doesn't pass to strikers very often. Remove corners and free-kicks, what's left to his game? And we're not talking about Beckham here, we're talking 1 in 6 finding their target. That's an issue when you only have 6 set piece chances in a game.

LIke I said, his stats in the early part of gave him a standing. I fully acknowledge that. But he regressed rapidly. Doyle came in to save our season.

Lynchpin to the previous promotion? He was possibly 4th in that list. Also it was over four years ago! Again people are talking like that was yesterday and he's in his prime. I don't think Sharp regressed any more than Norwood by the end of last season, we simply had more options to replace Sharp.

There's also a reason why every club sold him after being promoted to the PL.

Sorry but I'll repeat it. I'm not comparing their careers or what they've given Sheffield United overall. I'm comparing them today and what they offer to Sheffield United in the Premier League in 2023. Ben Osborn is better than Oliver Norwood and it isn't close.

 

[metalblade]

He was only our most creative player of all last season. And the lynchpin to our first promotion to the premier league.

There's a reason he's been promoted to the premier league so many times.

Saying Ben Osborn is better than him at all apart from running about is genuinely fucking crazy.

There is also a reason why both Fulham and Brighton got rid of him after being promoted.

 

[Slim Man]

There is also a reason why both Fulham and Brighton got rid of him after being promoted.

But they still had him to get promoted. That in itself is a huge huge compliment to pay a player.

 

[I should coco]

There's also a reason why every club sold him after being promoted to the PL.

So how do you explain the great season he had in 2019/20?

Fluke?

He can only hit positive defence splitting passes, if there are people to pass to. It seems to be a thing on here to ridicule his 'Hollywood passing', as if it's something to be ashamed of. When the team moves into space for him, he can be a brilliant attacking player.

Also, can you explain the obviously dodgy stats, that had him making the highest number of interceptions/blocks, last year in the Championship?

 

[Slim Man]

Last season? That very much depends how you measure creativity. He doesn't pass to strikers very often. Remove corners and free-kicks, what's left to his game? And we're not talking about Beckham here, we're talking 1 in 6 finding their target. That's an issue when you only have 6 set piece chances in a game.

LIke I said, his stats in the early part of gave him a standing. I fully acknowledge that. But he regressed rapidly. Doyle came in to save our season.

Lynchpin to the previous promotion? He was possibly 4th in that list. Also it was over four years ago! Again people are talking like that was yesterday and he's in his prime. I don't think Sharp regressed any more than Norwood by the end of last season, we simply had more options to replace Sharp.

There's also a reason why every club sold him after being promoted to the PL.

Sorry but I'll repeat it. I'm not comparing their careers or what they've given Sheffield United overall. I'm comparing them today and what they offer to Sheffield United in the Premier League in 2023. Ben Osborn is better than Oliver Norwood and it isn't close.

Measure it by the 'most creative player' metric mate and you won't go far wrong I've found.

Has he regressed or are we allowed to say players hit bad patches?

4th most important? If you say so. Had he not come in we wouldn't have got promoted.

You can repeat it all you want, if you keep repeating it long enough hopefully them blokes will come round and pop you in a straight jacket and throw you in a padded cell.
Norwood can actually pass to a player in the same colour shirt for a start, so he's infinitely better than a midfielder who can't.

 

[Hackey Blade]

I think top and bottom of all these posts is the fact if we want to get anything out of any of the remaining matches this season we can't be playing any of these three again this season ( I'd also throw in Lowe), I know circumstances dictated it on Saturday but for fucks sake try somebody else, they say players like brooks aren't ready well we know the other four aren't good enough and never will be, I'd rather lose a few whilst the others are learning on the job.

 

[Panini]

So how do you explain the great season he had in 2019/20?

Fluke?

He can only hit positive defence splitting passes, if there are people to pass to. It seems to be a thing on here to ridicule his 'Hollywood passing', as if it's something to be ashamed of. When the team moves into space for him, he can be a brilliant attacking player.

Also, can you explain the obviously dodgy stats, that had him making the highest number of interceptions/blocks, last year in the Championship?

No it wasn't a fluke. But it wasn't yesterday, it was 4 years ago.

I'm haven't rejected those stats. What I do reject is the idea he influences games. He plays well when we play well, not the other way around. When we're off, he's frequently among the worst performers and that's been true since 2020/21.

I strongly believe we'll be a better, more rounded, stronger and more flexible team without Norwood. The second half of last season went someway to prove that.

The 'Hollywood' passes aren't something to be ashamed of and I haven't implied they are. However they're now rare and he offers nothing else at Premier League level. If he needs someone to pass to but we don't have those players / don't play that way any more then it's madness to select him. If we kept picking a #9 who is totally dependent on service and we're not providing that service, we should stop picking the #9, right? It isn't what the team needs.

This leads back to my original point - both us and our opponents have to play in a very specific way for him to have any chance to contribute positively. Outside that narrow set of circumstances he's a liability.

He isn't going to find those circumstances at this level and we have to sacrifice so much to accommodate him. He shouldn't be on free kicks and corners anyway - take that away now and what's left?

We were a superior side to most of the division last season but he regressed rapidly and it got too hot for him by February.

We can agree to disagree.

 

[Trigger Blade]

Lerma and Osborn are a similar height, 5ft 10 to 5ft 9 (I agree with the point you make though).

Eze is the same height as Lerma, but somehow, maybe because he's quite well built, I would have said he was taller. They both look much bigger than Osborn, although not as big as most of the Palace side who look like absolute giants, particularly when they were at attacking corners.

 

[Panini]

I've read some shite in my time, but saying Ben Osborn is two levels above Norwood who is admittedly out of sorts, but definitely one of the best midfielders we've had in living memory is up there with absolutely any of it.

You are 100% right - Oliver Norwood is one of our best midfielders in living memory.

So is Michael Tonge. And Dane Whitehouse. And Michael Brown.

Give me a shout when we're looking to pick the team based on what they offer today, in 2023, in the Premier League.

Do you need a player to celebrate their 40th birthday before realising they aren't up to it any more?

 

[Stretch]

Bearing in mind what happened to Luton, Burnley, Villa - i thought we held it together pretty well.

Hammering Osborn/Basham in what will likely be the only game they start this season is ridiculous to the point of parody. Grown men can't seriously look at what's going on at the club and take their frustration on two grizzled pros who consistently put in 6/10 performances.

Osborn particularly seems to be a lightening rid for some people. I've only ever seen him put in solid displays. I reckon he's fantastic to have in the squad, at the training ground, in the dressing room.

Well said that man

 

[I should coco]

We can agree to disagree.

We can, and thanks for the well reasoned response.

 

[Yellarbellyblade]

It's football, not footgolf. If you need the opposition to leave you alone so you can play, you're not a Premier League player. Or even a Championship player. It's not even true, he misplaces far too many passes even when he has time and space.

People talk about him as if it's 2019. If being wasteful, slow, weak and no better on dead balls than anyone else is acceptable because every couple of games there's a ping out to Baldock then we get what we ask for.

Better players around him? He had Berge around him for 3 and a half years and Ndiaye around him for 2. He's always had wing-backs showing for him too.

I appreciate we can point to his stats from the first part of last season but had he not been dropped for Doyle from Sunderland away onwards, I'm certain we wouldn't have gone up.

He was the worst player in the relegation season and he was the worst player on Saturday. He doesn't have Bash's fitness or Osborn's versatility and work rate. Sure, both players will do something weird from time to time that makes you eyeroll but Norwood is just consistently below average at the things he's supposed bring to the team and has nothing else to offer when that isn't working.

I think this may be a pointless argument but just for completeness I partly agree with some of what you say. Norwood is a better championship player than premier league but he has skills that Osborn doesn’t, equally Osborn has greater energy. The first half of last season he was our best player and yes he did have a dip but I think there is some recency bias in your argument. That said we all have a right to a point of view as well as the right to disagree.

 

[Rudders]

Lerma and Osborn are a similar height, 5ft 10 to 5ft 9 (I agree with the point you make though).

There is no way Osborn is 5'9'' footballers lie about their height but that is taking the biscuit. 5'6'' or thereabouts I would say.