BDTBL: 135 years in 5 mins

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Blade for Sale

Blade for Sale

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NIce video. 1st time I've seen the 1982 plans at 3.20. Presumably these were Brearly's ambitious plans which were kyboshed by our blue & whte tinged council?

One thing that becomes painfully clear, and I can't recall who on here pointed it out originally, was the astonishing myopia demonstrated by not revolving the pitch 90 degrees when the cricket was kicked out.

Should we ever be in a position to 'do a Spurs' and redevelop the existing site extensively, I hope this is considered.

Anyway, we have a wonderful ground in an envious location with a uniquely fascinating history. Let's enjoy it.

 



Blade for Sale said:
NIce video. 1st time I've seen the 1982 plans at 3.20. Presumably these were Brearly's ambitious plans which were kyboshed by our blue & whte tinged council?

One thing that becomes painfully clear, and I can't recall who on here pointed it out originally, was the astonishing myopia demonstrated by not revolving the pitch 90 degrees when the cricket was kicked out.

Should we ever be in a position to 'do a Spurs' and redevelop the existing site extensively, I hope this is considered.

Anyway, we have a wonderful ground in an envious location with a uniquely fascinating history. Let's enjoy it.

Click to expand...


The problem with renovations/ rebuilding on an original site is “reduced capacity” or even a “temporary move” to another venue.
Both choices mean additional massive loss revenue on top of the building costs.

The preferred/ normal options are to move to another site, then you can play at your normal stadium until the new stadium is finished or do something similiar to our Kop/ south stand renovation plan, that was to build using the spare land at the back of the Kop, so even whilst building is being done most of the Kop will remain open in use, so total stadium capacity won’t be massively reduced when we build either the Kop or the south stand.

If we knock down the whole Kop and start again (which I’d prefer) then capacity reduces to 20K meaning some season ticket holders will be prevented from attending a single home game for a full season or two. Also casual/ new fans will be turned away.
 
Kozzy_is_my_Dad said:
We should be incredibly proud of our ground, it's heritage and how far we've come.

May it be our home for the rest of time.
Click to expand...

I hope so. I’d hate it if we ‘did a West Ham’ and completely sold our soul.

Any other club and I’d have felt abit of sympathy for their fans, but seeing as it was them, it’s quite amusing.
 
BiggerBladeThanThou said:
We should never leave Bramall Lane.

I love how Tottenham have stuck a new ground over WHL. If ever we're in the position to expand we should do the same.
Click to expand...

Agree, but we would struggle to find a suitable stadium for hire at a reasonable price.
Maybe go to S6 but you can be sure their stadium hire costs would be extortionate.
Best value might be to use Rotherham’s or Barnsley’s ground but it would be massively unpopular
But as I said it wouldn’t just be about stadium/ renovation costs but also the massive revenue losses (lower crowds) and massive stadium hire costs would probably make it unrealistic to consider.
 
Sheffsteel said:
Agree, but we would struggle to find a suitable stadium for hire at a reasonable price.
Maybe go to S6 but you can be sure their stadium hire costs would be extortionate.
Best value might be to use Rotherham’s or Barnsley’s ground but it would be massively unpopular
But as I said it wouldn’t just be about stadium/ renovation costs but also the massive revenue losses (lower crowds) and massive stadium hire costs would probably make it unrealistic to consider.
Click to expand...
If we're in a position to afford the ground renovation we'll be in a position to afford whatever the pigs charge. Hopefully by then they will be in L2 and in no position to turn down any additional income whatsoever. I could stomach a season at the sty if it meant cementing our utter dominance of the city! As I say, all hypothetical anyway, we'd need to be at the very least an established PL side.
 
Superblades said:
Kind of glad the 1982 plan didn’t get approved, the Kop would have been set back from the pitch for a start.
Click to expand...

In trying to hamstring us a the pig twats on council inadvertently did us a favour.

Brealeys plan was dependent on large standing areas on three sides of the ground to keep capacity up once room was lost for the Athletics track. We would not have had room to convert to all seater in 1990s and the distance then from pitch to stand would have been an atmosphere killer.
 
Just rebuild the Kop, which would be an extremely insignificant short term inconvenience in the grand scheme of things, then I'd happily stay at BL forever.
 
Blade for Sale said:
One thing that becomes painfully clear, and I can't recall who on here pointed it out originally, was the astonishing myopia demonstrated by not revolving the pitch 90 degrees when the cricket was kicked out.
Click to expand...

I've said it a few times. The opportunity is not lost though as there's nothing stopping us if the chance ever arose again. Say if we got promoted, build a new South Stand in the car park whilst the ground stays open in it's present form, knock down the old SS when it's done and take it from there, piecemeal and in tandem with the club's fortunes so we don't go bust. They could also use it for such things as cricket...
 
At present Wolves are where we wanna be, they are planning expansion to start later this year

To be done during the Season, initially for 31,000 up to 40,000, considering 60,000

Home games all been full this Season, with a waiting list for Season tickets

Some would say they are slow off the mark ......... which is where we will be, slow off the mark
 
The weird thing is that every stand has been built/rebuilt during my time watching them and yet the Grounds still seems the same (i.e. beautiful :))

Also why, at 10 secs in, is a man diving head first into the pitch :( UTB
 
Remember as a young un watching the match from behind the goal on BL end, then walking round to Kop at half time to watch us kicking into that end.

There used to be little gates between each stand with sometimes a steward there in case of away knobheads.

Memories
 



snootyfenooty said:
I've said it a few times. The opportunity is not lost though as there's nothing stopping us if the chance ever arose again. Say if we got promoted, build a new South Stand in the car park whilst the ground stays open in it's present form, knock down the old SS when it's done and take it from there, piecemeal and in tandem with the club's fortunes so we don't go bust. They could also use it for such things as cricket...
Click to expand...

Agree...,the club have 2 options regards stadium expansion.

1: Improve the Kop, extra 3,215 seats plus probably 200 in the new exec boxes built above the corner stand
2: Increase the South stand, extra 5,400 seats in the upper tier plus a few 100 in the extra exec boxes and disabled area.

Current capacity 32,700, do the Kop takes capacity to over 36K
Renovate the South stand takes overall capacity to about 38.5K
Do both projects takes overall capacity to over 42K.

I’’d say the Kop is the bigger priority for the fans as it’s the worse facilities in the whole ground. Amazing to think this day and age that the concourse areas are not under cover.

However I would imagine the directors are more keen to improve the South stand.
This is the face of the club, will improve our profile and will be the biggest revenue stream and best chance to impress VIP visitors.
The plan to to have bigger and better corporate areas, banqueting/ conference facilities, changing rooms, media facilities.
The problem with the South stand is that I can imagine the upper tier not being used when we’re not in the PL, so you’ll have a situation like they’ve had at Leeds and Cardiff where a whole stand is shut down for many matches. How embarrassing would that be? A brand new upper tier holding over 5000 not even being used. So we need to be an established PL club.

However until the ownership has been sorted all these plans are up in the air.
Remember the club were due to build a new club shop on the cherry street corner but that seems to have been put on hold too.
 
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Id be happy to get the kop done for now & the exterior of the ss looks dated now ..apart from that BL looks superb ! UTB
 
Sheffsteel said:
I’’d say the Kop is the bigger priority for the fans as it’s the worse facilities in the whole ground. Amazing to think this day and age that the concourse areas are not under cover.

However I would imagine the directors are more keen to improve the South stand.
Click to expand...
The last set of Plans I saw had a Directors Bar included in the South Stand

There's the priority ....... :)
 
Surely if we did build a new stand in the SS carpark behind the existing one this would allow us to knock down the old structure and turn the pitch during the close season.

That would possibly leave some gaps at the corners which could be developed at a later stage.

If / when we get to the PL and assuming we can stabilise there, we wouldn't be able to maximise revenue with only 42000 gates.
 
Increasing capacity should be seen as a bonus if we rebuild the Kop, not a priority. Other things are more important and there's a lot of room for capacity increasing with the South Stand, and the Kop corners.
 
bladesince64 said:
Surely if we did build a new stand in the SS carpark behind the existing one this would allow us to knock down the old structure and turn the pitch during the close season.

That would possibly leave some gaps at the corners which could be developed at a later stage.

If / when we get to the PL and assuming we can stabilise there, we wouldn't be able to maximise revenue with only 42000 gates.
Click to expand...

SU aren’t building a new stand, it’s just an upper tier bolted on to the back of the current South stand with a focus on improving the internal structure/ features for banqueting/ conferencing/ media and vip facilities. The design is this way so current capacity is effected so whilst building works are being done, so it makes the most sense cost wise.

Also the entrance foyer will also be much more impressive to visitors. Might seem unimportant as surely the focus should be on fans but creating a favourable impression to visitors does bring benefits raising our profile and reputation.
 
Ricky said:
Increasing capacity should be seen as a bonus if we rebuild the Kop, not a priority. Other things are more important and there's a lot of room for capacity increasing with the South Stand, and the Kop corners.
Click to expand...

That’s another option we could build on the back of the Kop and hardly increase the capacity.
Instead we could increase leg room and make it more comfortable for fans.

However I can’t see this happening. Football is a business and if someone suggests spending 20 million (whatever the figure is) on improving the Kop for no financial return, then that wouldn’t make sense.

At least if we had 3000 extra seats on the Kop the club could use the logic that in some games these extra seats will all sell increasing revenue resulting in eventually seeing a “return on investment”.

Anyway I don’t fully understand the argument about poor left room on the Kop. It’s like in the 80’s someone complaining about standing on the Kop because it makes your legs tired. It’s the cheapest area of the ground for a reason, if it’s not up to standard then move to the better seats and better facilities in other parts of the ground. I sit on the Kop and don’t have much leg room near the front but it’s the cheapest area, it’s still much more comfortable than when it was standing.
 
Sheffsteel said:
That’s another option we could build on the back of the Kop and hardly increase the capacity.
Instead we could increase leg room and make it more comfortable for fans.

However I can’t see this happening. Football is a business and if someone suggests spending 20 million (whatever the figure is) on improving the Kop for no financial return, then that wouldn’t make sense.

At least if we had 3000 extra seats on the Kop the club could use the logic that in some games these extra seats will all sell increasing revenue resulting in eventually seeing a “return on investment”.

Anyway I don’t fully understand the argument about poor left room on the Kop. It’s like in the 80’s someone complaining about standing on the Kop because it makes your legs tired. It’s the cheapest area of the ground for a reason, if it’s not up to standard then move to the better seats and better facilities in other parts of the ground. I sit on the Kop and don’t have much leg room near the front but it’s the cheapest area.
Click to expand...

I know, short term pennies before all else. Who cares about any lasting, fantastic legacy that will define the club long into the future. Something that will impress our precious 'esteemed visitors' as much as anything.

I'm not even referring to leg room, mainly the rake of the stand and removal of the poles, with access and facilities also improved.

Especially in these days where you can get £10m+ for a player on a regular basis, stadium development shouldn't be driven purely by ROI.
 
Sheffsteel said:
That’s another option we could build on the back of the Kop and hardly increase the capacity.
Instead we could increase leg room and make it more comfortable for fans.

However I can’t see this happening. Football is a business and if someone suggests spending 20 million (whatever the figure is) on improving the Kop for no financial return, then that wouldn’t make sense.

At least if we had 3000 extra seats on the Kop the club could use the logic that in some games these extra seats will all sell increasing revenue resulting in eventually seeing a “return on investment”.

Anyway I don’t fully understand the argument about poor left room on the Kop. It’s like in the 80’s someone complaining about standing on the Kop because it makes your legs tired. It’s the cheapest area of the ground for a reason, if it’s not up to standard then move to the better seats and better facilities in other parts of the ground. I sit on the Kop and don’t have much leg room near the front but it’s the cheapest area, it’s still much more comfortable than when it was standing.
Click to expand...

You'll find if United develop the kop they'll have to incorporate current H&S regs which will inevitably mean increased legroom, improved entrance and exit points, more of and wider gangways and so on. This will affect capacity one way or the other and the club wouldn't use the excuse of cheap seats equals shit and unsafe facilities. They'd never get the plans approved taking this approach.
 
Build a new south stand in the car park, knock the old one down, drag the pitch over

Huge Kop built at the back of the old one, lined up with the new pitch position

Bramall Lane stand knocked down along with the hotel, new stand built lined up with the pitch
The back of this stand straddling Bramall Lane with a tunnel for the road through

John Street stand knocked down, plenty of room now the Pitch has been dragged over

How much for the Brickwork ? Ainsley Harriott
 
snootyfenooty said:
You'll find if United develop the kop they'll have to incorporate current H&S regs which will inevitably mean increased legroom, improved entrance and exit points, more of and wider gangways and so on. This will affect capacity one way or the other and the club wouldn't use the excuse of cheap seats equals shit and unsafe facilities. They'd never get the plans approved taking this approach.
Click to expand...

I read a post on the footballground forum that the H & S regs only apply to new builds.
As ours would be a bolt-on extention design instead of a new stand then assume they may not apply to the original stand.
Assume the current seats stay as they are but the upper seats would have more leg room.
However I don’t know for sure, it’s just something another poster said.
 
Worksop II said:
Build a new south stand in the car park, knock the old one down, drag the pitch over

Huge Kop built at the back of the old one, lined up with the new pitch position

Bramall Lane stand knocked down along with the hotel, new stand built lined up with the pitch
The back of this stand straddling Bramall Lane with a tunnel for the road through

John Street stand knocked down, plenty of room now the Pitch has been dragged over

How much for the Brickwork ? Ainsley Harriott
Click to expand...

Or buy some players?
 



Sheffsteel said:
That’s another option we could build on the back of the Kop and hardly increase the capacity.
Instead we could increase leg room and make it more comfortable for fans.

However I can’t see this happening. Football is a business and if someone suggests spending 20 million (whatever the figure is) on improving the Kop for no financial return, then that wouldn’t make sense.

At least if we had 3000 extra seats on the Kop the club could use the logic that in some games these extra seats will all sell increasing revenue resulting in eventually seeing a “return on investment”.

Anyway I don’t fully understand the argument about poor left room on the Kop. It’s like in the 80’s someone complaining about standing on the Kop because it makes your legs tired. It’s the cheapest area of the ground for a reason, if it’s not up to standard then move to the better seats and better facilities in other parts of the ground. I sit on the Kop and don’t have much leg room near the front but it’s the cheapest area, it’s still much more comfortable than when it was standing.
Click to expand...


£20M?

Spend it on players.
 
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