Baxter Drug Hearing on July 10

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Flawed said:
*some* drugs (and I'm talking the difference between use and abuse - the two things are very different). You presumably think it is okay for football players to drink? If you look at it rationally and keep your preconceptions in check alcohol is just a drug (and on the scale of addiction and harm, by far one of the worst drugs).

Now, I take the point that legality is a major factor (and it is the main reason I don't take illegal drugs. I'm simply not willing to put my career on the line for the sake of a few hours), but lets be right on this one point; far more football careers have gone up on smoke (pun unintended) from (what would be considered to be acceptable in many circles) problem drinking than drug taking!
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The thing is Flawed, alcohol is a drug. The question is more to do with whether some people have addictive personalities. If so, well they'll latch onto anything that feeds a particular need. You're right, booze has ruined many lives, just as gambling, stealing, food, sex, you name it, all these things and more have proved to be destructive enablers.

I've been unfortunate enough to have dealt with this type of personality more than once during my life. It can cut across every aspect of your life, and whatever you start out thinking you can do to help will often fall short of what's needed to help. Professional help is the only route for someone gripped by this type of character trait, and even then it may take years before any benefits are evident.
 
itsinyerblood said:
The thing is Flawed, alcohol is a drug. The question is more to do with whether some people have addictive personalities. If so, well they'll latch onto anything that feeds a particular need. You're right, booze has ruined many lives, just as gambling, stealing, food, sex, you name it, all these things and more have proved to be destructive enablers.

I've been unfortunate enough to have dealt with this type of personality more than once during my life. It can cut across every aspect of your life, and whatever you start out thinking you can do to help will often fall short of what's needed to help. Professional help is the only route for someone gripped by this type of character trait, and even then it may take years before any benefits are evident.
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That's kind of the point I was trying to make, and I agree very much with. Drugs aren't safe for many people, alcohol (being a drug) also isn't safe for many people. It depends entirely on the person.

However, ecstasy use isn't usually indicative that someone is addicted to drugs, in fact, if anything, it probably indicates they are a recreational drug user (like I said, it simply doesn't lend itself to regular abuse), or at the very worst, a poly-drug user.

I'll admit, I'm playing devil's advocate a little, but I simply don't care that many young people take *some* substances. I can absolutely guarantee it is widespread (in and out of football!), and almost certainly far more widespread than most of us suspect, in one survey the number of people who would admit taking illegal drugs was 69%. It is the double standards I have issue to; How many of us have seen a player out and about in a pub or other social gathering with a beer? Probably most of us, but we don't pay it any attention because we (and I include myself in "we") all do it.

Do I want my eye surgeon taking drugs? No thanks! Would I like to get on-board a plane when the pilot had dropped one? Nope. Would I care if a footballer flies to Ibiza and drops an E on a weekend away during the off season? Couldn't give at toss either way tbh! (United player or not - and I know that wasn't the case here btw, I absolutely do have issue with him doing it on the payroll/during the season!).
 
Flawed said:
That's kind of the point I was trying to make, and I agree very much with. Drugs aren't safe for many people, alcohol (being a drug) also isn't safe for many people. It depends entirely on the person.

However, ecstasy use isn't usually indicative that someone is addicted to drugs, in fact, if anything, it probably indicates they are a recreational drug user (like I said, it simply doesn't lend itself to regular abuse), or at the very worst, a poly-drug user.

I'll admit, I'm playing devil's advocate a little, but I simply don't care that many young people take *some* substances. I can absolutely guarantee it is widespread (in and out of football!), and almost certainly far more widespread than most of us suspect, in one survey the number of people who would admit taking illegal drugs was 69%. It is the double standards I have issue to; How many of us have seen a player out and about in a pub or other social gathering with a beer? Probably most of us, but we don't pay it any attention because we (and I include myself in "we") all do it.

Do I want my eye surgeon taking drugs? No thanks! Would I like to get on-board a plane when the pilot had dropped one? Nope. Would I care if a footballer flies to Ibiza and drops an E on a weekend away during the off season? Couldn't give at toss either way tbh! (United player or not - and I know that wasn't the case here btw, I absolutely do have issue with him doing it on the payroll/during the season!).
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All fair comments. As for 'recreational' drug usage, I used to manage a club in the city centre. We'd get a healthy 1500 young people attending on a Saturday night, and a fair percentage we're almost certainly taking a pill(s) of some sort. The thing I discovered as a novice where this is concerned, is that anyone who takes an 'E' is far less of a problem than someone who's downed several pints. These customers were 'loved up' as opposed to the piss artists who craved a fight, and it made for a far nicer environment for everyone, myself, bar staff, bouncers etc. Of course there's dehydration to be aware of, but we learnt as we went along.

I don't adopt a puritanical position on this matter, but when it causes me to feel threatened, that's when I know there's something wrong. The root cause of this is far deeper than merely pontificating about potential dangers. I'm no expert, but I also know that those who attempt and appeal to our most base instincts where drugs are concerned are usually way off the mark. If there's a solution of sorts where illegal drugs are concerned, it's to consider legalisation, not something that will speak to those who are anti most things, but it still remains an option that cannot be ignored. Prohibition revealed that banning was no solution, so it is with drugs. I'm not suggesting a blanket liberalisation, that would be wrong, but a carefully considered strategy would at least cause far fewer problems than we currently encounter.
 
Newbury Blade said:
Because the drug laws are stupid, irrational and hypocritical, and if he had gone out binge drinking and got pissed on booze, which is far more damaging to the country and to individuals than drugs, everyone would have said what a top bloke and had a good laugh about it. It would be different maybe if what he did was meant to be performance enhancing, but far from it.
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I would have described him as a totally unprofessional twat. Essentially as I see him now, as it happens.
 
But what if he is telling the truth, doesn't that make it all a bit sinister ?
The guy goes out for a quiet drink to relax before the important play off games begin, and somebody slips him a dodgy drink, he get's home and low and behold out of the blue the FA drug squad is knocking on his door wanting a sample, it naturally come up possessive and he's out of the reckoning for the play off semis, despite the fact they say it's not a performance enhancing drug.....
If it's not affecting his play why is he banned ? and shouldn't this be some thing the club should be dealing with not the FA ?
 

Dkc said:
Puts a massive smile on your face all night, heightens all sensory experiences (including sex), makes you want to dance and grin, what's not to like?
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Turned every single one of my mates into self-centered pricks - without exception. I once listened to them extol the virtues of The Lighthouse Family for two hours but that was one of the better times.
 
Footballers are in a privileged position, they are paid thousands for most bloke would do for free. They educated on they can and cannot take, even right down to Chest-eeze.

The ulmitate responsibility for what he puts in his body must lie with Jose Baxter. If he has been stupid enough to take it himself, or he claims he was spiked which wouldn't surprise me, it is still his own responsibility.

There was a precursor already there as he got caught in a car with drug dealers at 17, how at 22 he has failed a drug test for recreational drugs.

Personally either way, I do not want to see him back playing for the Blades, he is nothing but a cheap little druggie, and as far as I'm concerned he can screw whatever remains of his once promising somewhere else other than Bramall Lane
 
SandyMcBlade said:
But what if he is telling the truth, doesn't that make it all a bit sinister ?
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I guess this is one of those cases where even it is true they can't let him off because it gives everyone else an out in future?
 
metalblade said:
I find it a bit sad if you have to get pissed to enjoy yourself yes, just goes to show there is something missing or wrong with your life.
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If your "signature" on here didn't trivialise the issue we wouldn't know you were joking;).
 
metalblade said:
I find it a bit sad if you have to get pissed to enjoy yourself yes, just goes to show there is something missing or wrong with your life.
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What if you're happy before getting pissed then a bit sad after?
 
TonyAgana said:
Turned every single one of my mates into self-centered pricks - without exception. I once listened to them extol the virtues of The Lighthouse Family for two hours but that was one of the better times.
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Ever been out drinking with your mates when you're off alcohol? Personally, I can't stand it, after six or seven most people turn into massive bell ends. All over the place, talking shit at you, grabbing hold of you, wanting to fight people in kebab houses. But when you're pissed yourself, that's a good night out.
 
TonyAgana said:
Turned every single one of my mates into self-centered pricks - without exception. I once listened to them extol the virtues of The Lighthouse Family for two hours but that was one of the better times.
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Really? Was that ecstasy or cocaine? People on MDMA seem to be happy and huggy. Coke heads are usually unbearable.

Maybe your mates' Es are cut with some other ingredients.

(spoken as an observer not a consumer :) )
 
BushBlade said:
Ever been out drinking with your mates when you're off alcohol? Personally, I can't stand it, after six or seven most people turn into massive bell ends. All over the place, talking shit at you, grabbing hold of you, wanting to fight people in kebab houses. But when you're pissed yourself, that's a good night out.
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That says a lot about group behaviour as well as the effects of alcohol. People are incredibly weak in those situations.
 

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