Baxter as a midfield runner

[Bergen Blade]

At times Jose Baxter's a class above anything else in League One. His composure, technique and vision makes him a firm favourite with Nigel Clough. Clough is known for liking hard working players with a very professional attitude, but Baxter is an exception. He's the bit of extra ability, the bit of luxury that he'll always try to find room for in his team.



But finding the ideal role for him has been difficult. Weir gave him his favoured role just behind the main striker, but Clough has rarely used such a system. Clough's main formation at Sheffield United has been 4-5-1 with one anchor man in midfield, flanked by two willing runners.



Last season these midfield runner roles belonged to Connor Coady and Stefan Scougall. Their work rate was superb. Getting up and down the pitch seemed as natural for them as running freely on a field is to a dog. Baxter was pushed up front, in a "false no 9" role. It worked ok, but it was always going to be a temporary solution, and Baxter has been playing in various midfield roles this season.



Most of the time he's been played in Connor Coady's role. It's been hoped that he'd bring his class and creativity to this position while also coping in terms of stamina and work rate. Nigel Clough tried it again at Gillingham, though again the team struggled for rhythm and, as so often this season, Baxter only showing glimpses of what he can do.

The full team was:

Howard

Brayford Basham McEveley Harris

Coutts

Davies - Baxter - - - Reed - Adams

Murphy​

The video below shows Baxter's limitations. At first he chases well, possibly determined to prove a few people wrong and show that he can do the role he's been given. The next couple of minutes though, shows how he sometimes is not contributing in the same manner as Coady or Scougall were last season, both defensively and going forward. He's simply not got the engine for it, and it may be unfair to expect him to be effective there.




If Baxter has to play I think Clough must find a different role for him. The current formation seems dependent on the midfield runners being very fit, although of course they have to contribute something going forward as well.



In my opinion we have three players in the current squad that have showed they can cope and give us some of what made us so effective last season:

• Stefan Scougall
• Louis Reed
• Florent Cuvelier

We've seen quite a few very good performances with two of those in the midfield runner roles:

• Southampton 1-0 (Doyle, flanked by Cuvelier and Reed)
• Port Vale 1-2 (Doyle, flanked by Reed and Cuvelier) We were bullied, but played ok and ought to have lead first half. Cuvelier went off at h/t.
• QPR 3-0 (Doyle, flanked by Reed and Scougall)
• Tottenham 0-1 (Doyle, flanked by Reed and Scougall)
• Tottenham 2-3 last 30 mins (Baxter, flanked by Reed and Scougall) (suddenly started creating and scored twice)
• Swindon 2-0 last 30 mins (Coutts, flanked by Reed and Scougall) (played well, after struggling a bit first half)

However I can't remember one good team performance with Baxter in a midfield runner role in the current formation. This is not picking on him, we have had many good team performances with him in different positions (wide left at QPR, holding midfield the last 30 mins vs Spurs at home and Preston at home in the league), he had good games as a false no 9 last season.



It would have been worth trying to play him in wide midfield when/if Clough wants to play 4-4-2. The best may have been attacking midfield behind a strong and quick striker, but it remains to be seen if we've got the right players to play a 4-2-3-1 system. Although it may not be the ideal time to experiment, our poor record shows that it may be even riskier to continue with him in the role he had at Gillingham.

 

[pommpey]

No idea if you are suggesting we play Baxter out wide, on the wing?

He has one standout ability. He has decent feet and can pick out our players with accurate, well placed passes. He can strike a ball well. But that's it. He has no pace, and ninety minutes in midfield would knacker him - in fact I doubt he'd make it to seventy.

The only proper place for him is in a 4-3-1-2 as the '1'. That formation leaves us without width unless it goes to the 'Christmas Tree' of 4-3-2-1 where we could have Murphy alongside Baxter - with Murphy doing the spadework and Baxter tucking in behind him.

Baxter wouldn't be able to handle the pace out wide. He wouldn't work with a full back and I couldn't see him tracking back.

pommpey

 

[MiserableBlader]

Baxter and runner :?
Ain't got the time or inclination to waste on the waste of space Baxter.
I merely pose the question
Is this that 'fantasy football' thing I've heard about :?

 

[TheBeard]

What about a 3-5-2 formation? We have plenty of quality midfielders

 

[bladesmanluke]

You raise a very good point

 

[Woodwardfan]

4-5-1 - Baxter's best position is where Scougall has been playing - advanced midfield but don't expect him to do as much defending as Scougall. Nor should he IMO, most of his energies should be directed towards attacking play and supporting the lone striker; in 4-5-1 there are more than enough other players to defend our goal FGS. Someone needs to be scoring goals and assisting goals somewhere in the team.

4-4-2 - only one place for Baxter IMO, secondary striker, but less of a case for that really, but depending on the opposition he could play it as a modified No.10 role mostly.

Baxter is a "No.10", not a "runner". Call him a luxury player, No.10, whatever, it's the manager's call whether the side needs a creator or just another runner. As a workhorse, ball winner, even lone striker, Baxter will try his best but it's not using what talent he has to the best effect.

Clough didn't sign the lad but seems to have valued what he can bring to the table. I'm not sure that is the case any longer though.

Baxter divides opinion more than any other player. It's because expectations from him are far higher than others because of his ability. The manager needs to decide whether to make him the "main man" or to give up on him. Baxter will always find another manager to make him his "main man". I'm sure the lad has not been happy playing all these roles outside his comfort zone this past year.

 

[SotonBlade]

I'll throw another spanner in the works here, could Baxter play the Doyle role? In front of the back four and supporting the two guys in front of him.

We all know he's got great vision and get make that killer pass, why not do that from deep.

To put it in Football Manager speak, he'd play a 'Deep Lying Playmaker' role.

 

[Woodwardfan]

I'll throw another spanner in the works here, could Baxter play the Doyle role? In front of the back four and supporting the two guys in front of him.

We all know he's got great vision and get make that killer pass, why not do that from deep.

To put it in Football Manager speak, he'd play a 'Deep Lying Playmaker' role.

Personally I don't think so at all. He did well in the Preston league game but Doyle did all the battling so you'd need a Doyle battler type in there anyway, though I do see the benefits in pressing hard higher up the field.

As for "killer passes", they are rarely played from deep. Crowd pleasing 50 yard balls to wingers out wide, but not the "killer passes" Baxter is capable of further up the field. Trouble with "killer passes" is that it takes two players on the same wavelength -there has to be a forward making the run as well as the deliverer. In our case there's never anybody up there to make the runs. Hence all the midfielders are left with hardly any option but to play across the front of the opposition defence all the time.

 

[bladesmanluke]

I'll throw another spanner in the works here, could Baxter play the Doyle role? In front of the back four and supporting the two guys in front of him.

We all know he's got great vision and get make that killer pass, why not do that from deep.

To put it in Football Manager speak, he'd play a 'Deep Lying Playmaker' role.

He wouldn't be able to play that role. I'm sure he could ply his trade from that position, but he wouldn't be winning possession back like Doyle does

 

[blade too long]

We have to accept , he doesnt fit in ,, we dont win games we should when he plays. I understand Cloughs thinking on him , he has ability, but his application in the context of a league game is he looks like a pyschodelic tie at a funeral .There are players who complete a jig saw but hes a piece from a tin of beans jig saw and we are the team photo jigsaw,
I have misgivings when I see his name on the sheet now , and its showing up too often in results in games he starts in

 

[Bergen Blade]

No idea if you are suggesting we play Baxter out wide, on the wing?

He has one standout ability. He has decent feet and can pick out our players with accurate, well placed passes. He can strike a ball well. But that's it. He has no pace, and ninety minutes in midfield would knacker him - in fact I doubt he'd make it to seventy.

The only proper place for him is in a 4-3-1-2 as the '1'. That formation leaves us without width unless it goes to the 'Christmas Tree' of 4-3-2-1 where we could have Murphy alongside Baxter - with Murphy doing the spadework and Baxter tucking in behind him.

Baxter wouldn't be able to handle the pace out wide. He wouldn't work with a full back and I couldn't see him tracking back.

pommpey

I'm saying that it's not working when we put him in the position that was occupied by Coady last season. We never win games and we don't play well. I think the role within the system we play requires different attributes than the ones Baxter offers.

We have had good games when he's been out wide. QPR was one example, one of very few when we didn't miss the unavailable Jamie Murphy. As QPR had a strong and quick defender in Onuouha at right back it may have been a difficult game for an out and out winger. Baxter didn't play as an out and out winger, he roamed around, cut inside, held the ball up and made good passes, including two vital ones for our opener. In short, it worked, we played well.

We also played well plenty of times last season when Baxter used to swap positions with Murphy in the second halves. It gave the opposition something completely different to deal with. Centre halves struggled to adapt when they'd been trying to figure out Baxter in the false no 9 role, and suddenly had the pacey Murphy running at and in behind them. Right backs were similarly confused. The FA cup win vs Charlton was a classical example.

 

[blade too long]

our best team performance by far was beating southampton, no Baxter, the blance was spot on , the midfield clicked, the work rate was by far at its peak

 

[HoodedClaw]

Personally hoping that Done is the striker that will give the option in behind defences that we're missing. If he does and Baxter doesn't up his game in the creativity department then I fail to see the reason for him being in the starting 11.

I'm not convinced we have a team that allows us to utilise him, if that is the case we need to accept that and move on.

 

[Gretschblade]

As it standsd, for me, the only reason that Baxter should be in the starting 11 is that Scougal is injured. Jose has been woefully out of form for quite a while for whatever reason. I'm not denying his talent but he rarely applies it. As someone has already said, it may be due to not being settled in a position but I can't see how he fits into our team.
Somehow though, he seems to be first on Cloughs list.

 

[Woodwardfan]

As it standsd, for me, the only reason that Baxter should be in the starting 11 is that Scougal is injured. Jose has been woefully out of form for quite a while for whatever reason. I'm not denying his talent but he rarely applies it. As someone has already said, it may be due to not being settled in a position but I can't see how he fits into our team.
Somehow though, he seems to be first on Cloughs list.

Why do I do this? Gretsch... If you are a creative midfielder in our side and for the majority of your games played you are asked to play lone striker. For 50% of your other games you are played out wide. For the other 50% you are playing in a side that has one forward and no players making runs for throughballs beyond the back 4, which are your speciality. In addition you are asked to defend, defend, defend. Would you get up in a morning and look forward to your day's work? Oh, and at the same time all you hear from your own fans is "fat, lazy, over-rated". Having come from Oldham at the same level and being the "main man" and something of a hero, life is different for Mr. Baxter.

That's life at a big club! But we are not a big club, we've no room for talent and ability, no room for luxury players. We are a small club for the forseeable future.

I think Baxter is prepared to work and defend within his own capabilities which have limitations, of course they do. But how he must watch football on TV and wish he played in a team with, let's say for example, Deane and Agana making runs as soon as he collects the ball.

Not only that, when they were playing everybody knew exactly when and where they would make their runs. the midfielders we had didn't have to look up. Those midfielders were far less talented that Baxter and not that much more industrious either, they just knew their role. Gannon was immobile, Booker had limited mobility, neither had a defence splitting pass in them. But they were a team and they had forward moves in them as soon as our team won the ball. We had forwards who made runs, we had wingers who pushed forward and we would have made Baxter look like Messi!

When Baxter receives the ball he usually knows what's on. If it is on he plays the ball quickly. It's never on, there's nobody there!! He plays it sideways reluctantly, often with disgust and often to the opposition!! How long is it since you saw the lad smile in a league game?

 

[sitwell]

I'll throw another spanner in the works here, could Baxter play the Doyle role? In front of the back four and supporting the two guys in front of him.

We all know he's got great vision and get make that killer pass, why not do that from deep.

To put it in Football Manager speak, he'd play a 'Deep Lying Playmaker' role.

He would be no good in this role ,his major talent is receiving balls and playing them quickly, in the Doyle role he would have time on the ball to pick his pass and that is not his strength ,hence his poor set pieces , the more time he has the worse he is. I think we have players more suitable for the job all over the pitch and really think he is a problem for us getting him into the team. The best performances lately were Southampton and Spurs away ,he didn't play in either ,this may be coincidence or are we a better 'team' without him ?

 

[Wards]

Do we really need an 'anchor' man at all in this division? I'd argue not but I think Clough is scared to play without one.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

He would be no good in this role ,his major talent is receiving balls and playing them quickly, in the Doyle role he would have time on the ball to pick his pass and that is not his strength ,hence his poor set pieces , the more time he has the worse he is. I think we have players more suitable for the job all over the pitch and really think he is a problem for us getting him into the team. The best performances lately were Southampton and Spurs away ,he didn't play in either ,this may be coincidence or are we a better 'team' without him ?

yes we are a better team without him. Sell him at season end, then end of problem.

He can occasionally be 8/9 out of 10 (all too few)
He is mainly inconsistent - partly due to playing all over the place (not his fault).
If the manager doesn't know his best position by now the we will always have the "Baxter" problem.
Nothing personal against him or any player - just want honest effort, endeavour, passion in a Blades shirt providing consistent performances.
Passionless performances such as Preston/Gills from what was largely two different teams of "rested" players was disgraceful. and there can be absolutely no excuses.

UTB

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

our best team performance by far was beating southampton, no Baxter, the blance was spot on , the midfield clicked, the work rate was by far at its peak

What was the midfield, can't remember.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Why do I do this? Gretsch... If you are a creative midfielder in our side and for the majority of your games played you are asked to play lone striker. For 50% of your other games you are played out wide. For the other 50% you are playing in a side that has one forward and no players making runs for throughballs beyond the back 4, which are your speciality. In addition you are asked to defend, defend, defend. Would you get up in a morning and look forward to your day's work? Oh, and at the same time all you hear from your own fans is "fat, lazy, over-rated". Having come from Oldham at the same level and being the "main man" and something of a hero, life is different for Mr. Baxter.

That's life at a big club! But we are not a big club, we've no room for talent and ability, no room for luxury players. We are a small club for the forseeable future.

I think Baxter is prepared to work and defend within his own capabilities which have limitations, of course they do. But how he must watch football on TV and wish he played in a team with, let's say for example, Deane and Agana making runs as soon as he collects the ball.

Not only that, when they were playing everybody knew exactly when and where they would make their runs. the midfielders we had didn't have to look up. Those midfielders were far less talented that Baxter and not that much more industrious either, they just knew their role. Gannon was immobile, Booker had limited mobility, neither had a defence splitting pass in them. But they were a team and they had forward moves in them as soon as our team won the ball. We had forwards who made runs, we had wingers who pushed forward and we would have made Baxter look like Messi!

When Baxter receives the ball he usually knows what's on. If it is on he plays the ball quickly. It's never on, there's nobody there!! He plays it sideways reluctantly, often with disgust and often to the opposition!! How long is it since you saw the lad smile in a league game?

Deane and Agana making runs..

Ummmmmmm

 

[Woodwardfan]

Bit of fun.

Baxter plays up the field in advanced midfield role/ at times in a front two ( not lone striker, not out wide much). Two goals. No fuss, no problem. No comments.

When Brayford and Coutts were playing proper football in the second half Baxter joined in and they were playing football from a higher level. That's how it is when proper footballers play together.

 

[moDtheGod]

What about a 3-5-2 formation? We have plenty of quality midfielders

Not even an option. Brayford and Harris are two of our better players and they can't fit into that system.

Unless you meant wing backs? But then where do you put Murphy and JCR?

 

[Tezza1889]

Can you imagine the times the strikers would have been put in on goal if macdonald was playing alongside baxter...

All that baxter is short of is a big player, who can play a bit as well and buy him a bit of time to pick a pass out..

Instead he's had to play with doyle, in a congested defensive midfield 4/5/6....

We have a ball player, but we play too deep with no forwards (plural) how's he going to pick a forward out when he doesn't get time on the ball, and mostly the striker has two on him all the time, for baxter to shine from midfield, we need to stretch opposition defences so players get into space, where baxter can exploit them...

Talk to opposition fans, they'd snatch our hands off, they can all see it a mile away how good he is...

 

[BeatleBlade]

I don't want to go off topic but is Cuvelier still injured?

 

[TheBeard]

Not even an option. Brayford and Harris are two of our better players and they can't fit into that system.

Unless you meant wing backs? But then where do you put Murphy and JCR?

You can have Brayford and Harris as wing backs and move Murphy into the left central midfield role, or put Brayford on the right of the 3 defenders

 

[Silent Blade]

I don't want to go off topic but is Cuvelier still injured?

played for the u21s yesterday

 

[ShockingBadBuy]

QUOTES ALL OF THE ABOVE

I feel a bit sorry for Baxter. His main problem, I think, is that he is just not quick enough to play the pro game successfully.

This means he can look less fit, and lazier, than he actually is--both of which are compounded by a body-shape that makes him look a bit of a biffer (probably unfairly). In the end you are quick, or you are not. You are born with the fibres in your legs that give you pace, or you aren't. As the father of a very promising young player who was booted out of the academy system because, in the end, he didn't have those fibres, I sympathise with Jose.

 

[ZoneManWilf]

I'm a big Baxter fan, I really rate him as a footballer, he is the best passer in the squad. But I'm coming to the opinion that he doesn't fit in our team at the moment.

Couple of things I noticed on Tuesday:
- That time when he made a run from midfield towards the kop, someone played a lovely through ball and then we saw Jose running through treacle and their lumbering centre half outpacing him to the ball.
- There was an occasion in the first half where we had it in space in midfield, but Baxter playing behind Done, was in a direct line with Done and the ball and there was no movement. The midfielder on the ball had no option for a forward pass, and it had to go back and attacking momentum was gone. He's often too static in that 'hole' behind the main striker.

Both these 2 examples just illustrate that unfortunately for all his skill and good passing, he slows play down as we get in the attacking third and contributes to us as a team simply not attacking with pace very often which I'm sure is a big factor in the lack of goals.

I think Baxter would work great as someone coming on for the last 25 minutes. He came on against Southampton and looked great as the pace of the game had slowed by then.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

I'm a big Baxter fan, I really rate him as a footballer, he is the best passer in the squad. But I'm coming to the opinion that he doesn't fit in our team at the moment.

Couple of things I noticed on Tuesday:
- That time when he made a run from midfield towards the kop, someone played a lovely through ball and then we saw Jose running through treacle and their lumbering centre half outpacing him to the ball.
- There was an occasion in the first half where we had it in space in midfield, but Baxter playing behind Done, was in a direct line with Done and the ball and there was no movement. The midfielder on the ball had no option for a forward pass, and it had to go back and attacking momentum was gone. He's often too static in that 'hole' behind the main striker.

Both these 2 examples just illustrate that unfortunately for all his skill and good passing, he slows play down as we get in the attacking third and contributes to us as a team simply not attacking with pace very often which I'm sure is a big factor in the lack of goals.

I think Baxter would work great as someone coming on for the last 25 minutes. He came on against Southampton and looked great as the pace of the game had slowed by then.

Had he come on as a sub when he made that great tackle in our penalty area?
Can't remember the match.

 

[Balham]

Had he come on as a sub when he made that great tackle in our penalty area?
Can't remember the match.

That was Spurs; the tackle was on Mason. He was on from the start but had a mare in the first half as, to be fair, did most of the United players but that was down to Spurs outclassing us. He improved dramatically after half time and particularly when Doyle went off and we started forcing the game.