AZ Alkmaar model is that the way forward

[Argentinemanager]

Just reading the bbc pages about the moneyball founder, who took data analyis to baseball and almost won the world series, he has now taken it to football with AZ Alkmaar with what appears very good results. Would this be a better way forwards rather than blow our budget on one or two players, invest in the best data experts and try to build that way. In the article it quotes both brighton and brentford of using data and punching above there weight

 

[Davalon]

Years ago I'd have laughed at this stuff but it's clear it's got great results for various teams across different sports.

I remember when we signed Egan that Wilder mentioned data and stats quite a bit. Not worked out too badly.

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

There’s 3 or 4 from the current AZ Alkmaar side that I’d gladly buy.

 

[Alex Cheeseright]

Moneyball is a great movie even if you don't like or understand baseball. Maybe we are doing our own moneyball and that is why we got Anel.

 

[Berkshire Blade]

Almost every club is using data now. You get the odd dinosaur fan who doesn't understand it but it's clearly the way ahead. Doesn't guarantee success of course.

 

[Blade56]

seem to recall there were reports PA cut all data supported scouting when the undersoil heating was a thing. Just ask ChatGPT how can Sheffield United win the 2023/24 Premier League

 

[Yogi]

Almost every club is using data now. You get the odd dinosaur fan who doesn't understand it but it's clearly the way ahead. Doesn't guarantee success of course.

And the issues with it is the more clubs do it the lesser your returns. Suddenly those undervalued diamonds in the rough are appropriately valued and cost a lot more because everyone knows about them.

It’s still worth doing though and the real edge now might be developing new metrics to measure which correlated strongly to top performance in your system. It’s why I’ve no issue with us sticking with the 3-5-2 as it theoretically should allow us to identify players who perform better in that system as opposed to their base level of performance and thus get value.

 

[s20Blade]

Isn't this what wilder did, or every similar?

 

[Bladeinleeds]

I’d rather spend 10m on data / scouts and scouting infrastructure instead of one player.

The likes of bentford and Brighton have shown what smart recruitment can yeild. They have very rarely spend more on players than the likes of berge, ramsdale, Brewster, mcburnie etc and have yielded strong results.

The English premium is something we want to avoid as long as we can still maintain the core team spirit

 

[mattbianco1]

They're on BT Sport tonight versus West Ham if anybody wants to see them

 

[Houston_Blade]

Moneyball is a great movie even if you don't like or understand baseball. Maybe we are doing our own moneyball and that is why we got Anel.

Ours is called "stick a load of names on a dartboard and buy whoever we land on".

 

[GrunkyPeep]

Just reading the bbc pages about the moneyball founder, who took data analyis to baseball and almost won the world series, he has now taken it to football with AZ Alkmaar with what appears very good results. Would this be a better way forwards rather than blow our budget on one or two players, invest in the best data experts and try to build that way. In the article it quotes both brighton and brentford of using data and punching above there weight

Didn't that guy invest in Barnsley a few years ago?

 

[Houston_Blade]

I'd just get Jay Socik in, he's a Blade and has done a cracking job at Luton.

Beans please get it sorted!

 

[mattbianco1]

The English premium is something we want to avoid as long as we can still maintain the core team spirit

This is the key.

Brentford and Brighton have both spent decent amounts in fairness, particularly Brighton, but it's the foreign market that has provided better investments.

Example - Brentford paid £18m for Keane Lewis-Potter. Brighton paid £20m for Adam Webster. But then they also found the following players with good scouting networks...

Alexis McAllister - £8m
Yves Bissouma - £15m
Leandro Trossard - £15m
Moises Caicedo - £5m
Marc Cucurella - £18m
Kaoru Mitoma - £3m

But then have just spent £30m on Joao Pedro from Watford

 

[3Cheers4Ramirez]

I don't think scouting is top of the list of things we should be spending on now. I think we should be able to recruit more than adequately with what we have available to us now, unless we're completely backwards and are still relying on a Clough's brother sort of setup....... which I doubt, as it's likely there will be involvement from the owner and his contacts and that's no bad thing

It can and should creep up the list after we've sorted the training ground and other infrastructure

I'd just get Jay Socik in, he's a Blade and has done a cracking job at Luton.

Beans please get it sorted!

........ but I've got no idea why this guy isn't already at the club

 

[Bladeinleeds]

This is the key.

Brentford and Brighton have both spent decent amounts in fairness, particularly Brighton, but it's the foreign market that has provided better investments.

Example - Brentford paid £18m for Keane Lewis-Potter. Brighton paid £20m for Adam Webster. But then they also found the following players with good scouting networks...

Alexis McAllister - £8m
Yves Bissouma - £15m
Leandro Trossard - £15m
Moises Caicedo - £5m
Marc Cucurella - £18m
Kaoru Mitoma - £3m

But then have just spent £30m on Joao Pedro from Watford

They would (or have) Probably sell most of those for 40-60 million each. That’s like quarter of a billion in profit!

We should look to attempt similar

 

[Alex Cheeseright]

Ours is called "stick a load of names on a dartboard and buy whoever we land on".

Can't wait for the movie!!

 

[Scarebus]

Can't wait for the movie!!

 

[Yellarbellyblade]

Just reading the bbc pages about the moneyball founder, who took data analyis to baseball and almost won the world series, he has now taken it to football with AZ Alkmaar with what appears very good results. Would this be a better way forwards rather than blow our budget on one or two players, invest in the best data experts and try to build that way. In the article it quotes both brighton and brentford of using data and punching above there weight

Billy Beane, the man in the film who used the theory with Oakland, never managed to turn it into a championship winning team. That said it’s pretty common practice across baseball now so has been used successfully elsewhere but usually coupled with large budgets. I guess the problem is about translating it into a sport which is more about a collective team performance rather than one v one contests a la baseball and say cricket are. That said if AZ have managed to do it then stealing what has worked well for them wouldn’t be a bad idea if we can.

 

[Snowflake]

Almost every club is using data now. You get the odd dinosaur fan who doesn't understand it but it's clearly the way ahead. Doesn't guarantee success of course.

Helps if the company owners buy your club ! It works if the Magpies beat a Chesterfield

 

[robbiez666]

I don't think scouting is top of the list of things we should be spending on now. I think we should be able to recruit more than adequately with what we have available to us now, unless we're completely backwards and are still relying on a Clough's brother sort of setup....... which I doubt, as it's likely there will be involvement from the owner and his contacts and that's no bad thing

It can and should creep up the list after we've sorted the training ground and other infrastructure



........ but I've got no idea why this guy isn't already at the club

Scouting needs to be up there as a top priority. We simply won't survive as a club at a high level without it.

We need to invest heavily in the infrastructure full stop as we won't be able to unless we're in the top flight.

If that means few signings, so be it.

 

[jono_t2000]