Away tickets....

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I think it's something that needs tweaking slightly, maybe:

- Have 75% of the tickets allocated as they are at the moment, it's right that those with the most points get priority. Maybe also separate out points gained from home and away matches somehow, so that those who go to less attractive away games have a bit more of a chance at higher priority ones compared to people who just accumulate their points from season tickets - have the first days of sale require x000 points from away matches perhaps?
- Reserve a small percentage of tickets for people taking kids that can't get one through their normal points count?
- Have another small percentage decided by ballot - this can be weighted by points so that those who just miss out on the regular sale have the best chance, but still allowing newer fans some chance of getting a ticket?
 



Cardero said:
Keep hearing the "not fair on the kids" argument. I have mates who’s kids have lots of points. One is 12 and has over 60,000 points. I know the cost of taking kids can be high but we have been in the pub league for six years. Lots of clubs offered very attractive pricing for Kids tickets (admittedly not all) and on a number of occasions younger kids have been a fiver or even free with a paying adult - they still got a ticket and still accrued loyalty points. Plus, we have had big allocations which were not routinely selling out until last season so the opportunity has been there for kids to rack up some points. I do agree there may need to be some tweaking of the system if allocations remain small and away followings remain high, but that shouldn’t penalise the adults & kids that have attained healthy numbers of points watching what, up until last season, was complete dross at times....
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To have that many points, at that age, they must have done almost every game since birth. Season ticket 2,500 ish. 23 away games at, lets say, an average of 100 points per game (usually 50-150) is 2,300. Then cup ties. Around 5000 points per season would be really good going. 12 years x 5000 points = 60,000 points. Then take of the points he simply wouldn't have been able to get tickets and points for (due to not having enough points to be eligible).
I think that's a reasonable demonstration of how difficult it is to catch up, which will only become more pronounced, the longer the rolling system keeps rolling.
 
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I don't make it to many matches, but I reckon i deserve to be front of the queue for the rest of my life as a reward for sitting through the entire 90 minutes of pure shit when we played at Coventry under Adkins
 
Rodley said:
Must admit it does beg the question how younger fans without the hoard of loyalty points will get the tickets. Shots of the away end are starting to look like a casting call for Dads Army!
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I'd respectably disagree.

The last few Away games I've been too, I've felt distinctly old. For the record I turn 41 on Ipswich at home. So I'm not too sure the demographic at Away games is too aged. Unless of course it was Captain Mainwaring who was releasing flares last season?!?

As others have said, it's usually those who have recently jumped on the bandwagon and can't get tickets who are now whinging about those of us who put in the hard yards.
 
spongebobblade said:
I know of people who have started going away again during the second half of last season and this who haven't been away since the premiership days. I'm not criticising them, that's there prerogative but do they deserve a ticket more than those who have been loyal during , say the lean 5 years?
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They wouldn't get one in front of those people you mention, because the 5 years worth of points would outweigh those Prem points.

What about those who have attended pretty much without fail since before the system was implemented? Do they deserve to end up on an equal, larger footing to those who just fancied going again now the trajectory has turned? A rolling cap will simply equal more people on the top points band.

Like I say, it does have problems, but the second you start culling the most loyal by definition of points and allowing others to artificially catch up, is the second it's no longer fit to be called a 'loyalty' scheme.

The most fair method I can currently think of, is allowing one off gifts of points from a parent to a child or similar... Still not entirely 'fair' but suits more people in tha kids are able to go easy enough and the queue in front is shortened as the parent 'loses' points.

On the infant daughter point... Ruby went to more matches pre-season, than some returning folk I know have in a couple of years and more. She has zero points... They have many more... That's just the way it is.
 
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BladesOnToast said:
I don't make it to many matches, but I reckon i deserve to be front of the queue for the rest of my life as a reward for sitting through the entire 90 minutes of pure shit when we played at Coventry under Adkins
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I love this idea. Retrospective points awarded according to suffering endured. As an attendee of Port Vale in 1999, and multiple Adkins car crashes I demand a guaranteed seat next to Charlie Webster for every match this season.

Because I'm worth it.
 
The system is also widely abused, quite a few of the people with lots of loyalty points buy tickets for away games even if they are not going and flog the ticket on to friends just so they keep on pocketing loyalty points. Sadly it is fact that some will cheat the system by any means to keep their advantage and before anyone says it it is not an attack on all people with loads of loyalty points just pointing out the system can be and is abused by some.
 
Foxy said:
They wouldn't get one in front of those people you mention, because the 5 years worth of points would outweigh those Prem points.

What about those who have attended pretty much without fail since before the system was implemented? Do they deserve to end up on an equal, larger footing to those who just fancied going again now the trajectory has turned? A rolling cap will simply equal more people on the top points band.

Like I say, it does have problems, but the second you start culling the most loyal by definition of points and allowing others to artificially catch up, is the second it's no longer fit to be called a 'loyalty' scheme.

The most fair method I can currently think of, is allowing one off gifts of points from a parent to a child or similar... Still not entirely 'fair' but suits more people in tha kids are able to go easy enough and the queue in front is shortened as the parent 'loses' points.
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Still doesn't help the younger supporter long term though does it? And as I've already said, those who go to almost or every game shouldn't have an issue whatever the system. They will always be at the top. I've personally been to an awful lot of away games in league 1 (averaging 13-15 a season) but the two years I didn't have a season ticket for over a decade ago are still holding me back. If they are holding me after all this time what chance have the younger generation?
 
spongebobblade said:
Still doesn't help the younger supporter long term though does it?
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The only way that wouldn't is if they didn't have anyone to gift them their points... They get an instant leg up and then continue earning their own.

spongebobblade said:
those who go to almost or every game shouldn't have an issue whatever the system. They will always be at the top.
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Okay, so say we cap or drop off points, then we are drawn Accrington Stanley away or AFC Wimbledon... There's simply more and more people on the top points band, meaning someone who hasn't missed a game in a decade (or more) is far more likely to be behind someone who has just done three years in the sun.... It's gonna be a bloody big queue in the car park!

That's one of the things it was brought in to avoid.
 
I haven't lived in Sheffield for 35 years and currently it's a 200 mile round trip to BDTBL but I have consistently seen 10-20 games a season over that time, (usually split about 50/50 home and away) when we're playing well that tends to go up to 30+. Most of the time I have travelled to away games and bought on the day (if possible) or gone in a home area, neither of which gives me any points of course. Home games have often been bought by a season ticket holder so I haven't picked up points for a lot of those either. I've accumulated just under 20,000 points which is not going to be enough to get tickets for the big away games. I go in the away area when I can. Do I think I'm being hard done to? no, it works for me, I'm capable of keeping my gob shut if I need to and there is a certain pleasure to be gained from listening to moaning home fans when we're having a good day. I do think that the points system needs weighting though so that recent points are of greater value than ones from the depths of time. It wouldn't make any difference to regular attenders but it would effect those sitting on large numbers in the past but who are attending less regularly now and give more hope to those who would love to follow us away more.
 
I see mentioned a few times about giving points or swapping points. Is this actually possible as l tried to transfer some of my points to mrs ba to even our points up as I have more than her and was told by the ticket office that I couldn't
 



Foxy said:
The only way that wouldn't is if they didn't have anyone to gift them their points... They get an instant leg up and then continue earning their own.



Okay, so say we cap or drop off points, then we are drawn Accrington Stanley away or AFC Wimbledon... There's simply more and more people on the top points band, meaning someone who hasn't missed a game in a decade (or more) is far more likely to be behind someone who has just done three years in the sun.... It's gonna be a bloody big queue in the car park!

That's one of the things it was brought in to avoid.
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Totally disagree with your first point about "gift" points. How would that be fair? What if a young fans parents weren't active blades fans? Should they be penalised because of it?
I take your point on the queue around the car park but it still doesn't address what is a genuine problem which even you agree needs tweaking? One thing we can agree on is that there is no easy solution or one that will suit everyone. It's all bloody Wilders fault!
 
spongebobblade said:
It's not an arguement. It's a reasonable debate about something that needs to be looked at and possibly addressed. I'm assuming you have a lot of points and no match attending children then?
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It was a joke based on the fact we now have these threads regularly since we started doing well again. I'm hilarious like that ;)

If you must know, I have more than enough points and no children, but have said before on the numerous threads on the subject that I'd be happy with a rolling scheme.
 
Apart from big obvious fixtures, I've usually managed a ticket if I've wanted one for most attempts. Without beg borra stealing. That goes for last year in the prem too. And I'm not entirely balls deep in loyalty points. The system is fine.
 
metalblade said:
The system is also widely abused, quite a few of the people with lots of loyalty points buy tickets for away games even if they are not going and flog the ticket on to friends just so they keep on pocketing loyalty points. Sadly it is fact that some will cheat the system by any means to keep their advantage and before anyone says it it is not an attack on all people with loads of loyalty points just pointing out the system can be and is abused by some.
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That's very true.

I have enough loyalty points to buy tickets on the first day of sale. But my kids don't. And my mates don't. So when it came to the Forest match (I don't usually take the kids to away matches because our fans behave more moronic than I'd care them to witness) I wanted to go with 2 mates who don't have enough loyalty points to stand a chance of getting a ticket. So, I registered myself on the Forest website and got a customer number. Whatever happened I was guaranteed a seat for me and my two mates, even though it may have been amongst the Forest fans.

What turned out was that a kid we know was in a group of fans who all have enough loyalty points to buy on the first day of sale. But his mates weren't able to go to the game. But they still bought their tickets anyway and sold them on to my mates.

That's how it works.

Get enough loyalty points and even if you aren't thinking of going you can always sell your ticket on and still profit from the points.
 
FriethBlade said:
The problem seems to be as much if not more about how many tickets we are been given by the home side. QPR away we've been allocated 1700 tickets on the upper tier. What about the lower tier ? Was Forest a sell out in the home end ? Even at home we don't seem to be giving the away teams much of an allocation and we aren't selling out the home end so why don't all clubs give out more away tickets?

I can remember us filling away ends at.the likes of Forest and now we only get a couple of thousand tickets. It'll be the same.e for them at our place, they would bring 4-5 k but we will only give them 2800
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There's no way we will sell out 1,700 for QPR in midweek. If there was demand we could have more.
 
Foxy said:
Like I say, it does have problems, but the second you start culling the most loyal by definition of points and allowing others to artificially catch up, is the second it's no longer fit to be called a 'loyalty' scheme.

The most fair method I can currently think of, is allowing one off gifts of points from a parent to a child or similar... Still not entirely 'fair' but suits more people in tha kids are able to go easy enough and the queue in front is shortened as the parent 'loses' points.

On the infant daughter point... Ruby went to more matches pre-season, than some returning folk I know have in a couple of years and more. She has zero points... They have many more... That's just the way it is.
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With all due respect, do you not see the irony of your first and second paragraphs?
;)
 
spongebobblade said:
With all due respect, do you not see the irony of your first and second paragraphs?
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Hence my 'still not entirely fair'... It's fairer than a lot of suggestions as the person earning the points gets a benefit, but also has to give something up to aid the 'less loyal'.

For me, it can stay as it is, i'm fortunate that I'm never in any danger of not getting a ticket. Ruby will work her way up, if it's her choice to do so. The same way anyone else does.

Something needs doing if we continue being successful for the kids, but I guarantee that nobody can find an entirely fair solution.

It was far more simple when we were shit and getting shitter!
 
Foxy said:
Hence my 'still not entirely fair'... It's fairer than a lot of suggestions as the person earning the points gets a benefit, but also has to give something up to aid the 'less loyal'.

For me, it can stay as it is, i'm fortunate that I'm never in any danger of not getting a ticket.

Something needs doing for the kids, but I guarantee that nobody can find an entirely fair solution.

It was far more simple when we were shit and getting shitter!
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Like I said, it's all Wilders fault!
 
DazBlade88 said:
There's no way we will sell out 1,700 for QPR in midweek. If there was demand we could have more.
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And we didnt sell out for Middlesborough, Cardiff or Bolton.

It only seems to be an issue now as we are playing well. Never seemed to be a problem during the dark days of Adkins and to a lesser extent Clough when the away tickets for the majority of away games went to genreal sale. It is important that the fans who went away during the relegation season from the championship and the following 5 years are not penalised because some young ones have decided they now want ro go.

I am yet to see a fairer system than what we have now
 
What’s the aim of away allocation? Is it to be fair to loyal supporters? If that’s it and it works perfectly we’ll have an away end filled with old gits like me - pretending it’s still the seventies in between visits to the bogs!

Is it to develop a love of travelling with the Blades in a new generation? If we do that and fill it with fathers and sons/daughters we’ll generate the atmosphere of an England U21 game.

Is it to generate a loud, hostile environment where our team know that they have an away army at their backs? These guys are probably 15 to 30, and we all remember being part of that.

In reality it’s all of the above and the perfect system would balance it and also take into account the specific match. Away at Ipswich or Reading could have a family rating - away at Swillsboro would require a more military bias. As for us oldies, maybe pick nice locations and combine it with a Saga weekend visit to National Trust properties!

I’m obviously taking the piss here-but just trying to show that there is no real answer. I would simply take everybody on say 25K points in the last 10 years and on rotation offer them 2 tickets, with 2 days to take up the offer and then move on down the list.

At the end of the day though, looking around at games, the present system seems to work somehow. You can see good old boys, plenty of Wilder’s Army and quite a few kids.

Like having 4 great wing backs - it’s a good problem to have.

The Magic is Back
 
bartman said:
And we didnt sell out for Middlesborough, Cardiff or Bolton.

It only seems to be an issue now as we are playing well. Never seemed to be a problem during the dark days of Adkins and to a lesser extent Clough when the away tickets for the majority of away games went to genreal sale. It is important that the fans who went away during the relegation season from the championship and the following 5 years are not penalised because some young ones have decided they now want ro go.

I am yet to see a fairer system than what we have now
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It's not always the case that "some young ones have decided they now want to go"
My daughter went to Cardiff, Bolton Sunderland and Boro. It's there one chance to try and catch up but then they immediately fall behind again when the pig and forest games come up. Yes they have been to a huge amount of aways over the past 5 years and had no problems getting tickets but they are being penalised because our system dates back to when they were barely walking. The system will never satisfy everyone but it particularly discriminates against the younger supporter who was in nappies or wasn't born when it was invented
 
spongebobblade said:
It's not always the case that "some young ones have decided they now want to go"
My daughter went to Cardiff, Bolton Sunderland and Boro. It's there one chance to try and catch up but then they immediately fall behind again when the pig and forest games come up. Yes they have been to a huge amount of aways over the past 5 years and had no problems getting tickets but they are being penalised because our system dates back to when they were barely walking. The system will nev er satisfy everyone but it particularly discriminates against the younger supporter who was in nappies or wasn't born when it was invented
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Pigs and Forest were 50 points. The games you mention were awarded more points so she will be catching up. The system was only brought in during our premier league season and we only had two decent seasons after that. The young ones would have had very cheap season tickets bought for them and awaymatches would also be cheap and I know of some who bought under 5 tickets for away games as they were a fiver or less

I wonder how many young ones who want these points went to the Leicester and Walsall games at home this season where 150 points were available or the Checkatrade games ( or JPT)over the last few seasons ? Plenty of chances to catch up.

They will catch up as fans won't go. It will take time but not everyone in the top brackets for points will go to every away game especially this season when the costs are so high.

Any system will not be perfect but at least the system mainly rewards, at the moment, the fans who followed the team away from home during those horrible trips to places like Carlisle, Gillingham on a Tuesday night or a midweek trip to Southend to witness some of the worst performances in living memory.
 
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FriethBlade said:
So if u r right why are the club f in about putting them on general sale just a week before the game? Secondly have u any idea how many Blades live in the south east ?
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They do it regardless, I'm not sure why.

Of course I do. I know plenty of the London Blades and I've been to virtually all of the games in that neck of the woods in midweek over the last 12 years. It's highly unlikely we'll sell out.
 



bartman said:
Pigs and Forest were 50 points. The games you mention were awarded more points so she will be catching up. The system was only brought in during our premier league season and we only had two decent seasons after that. The young ones would have had very cheap season tickets bought for them and awaymatches would also be cheap and I know of some who bought under 5 tickets for away games as they were a fiver or less

I wonder how many young ones who want these points went to the Leicester and Walsall games at home this season where 150 points were available or the Checkatrade games ( or JPT)over the last few seasons ? Plenty of chances to catch up.

They will catch up as fans won't go. It will take time but not everyone in the top brackets for points will go to every away game especially this season when the costs are so high.

Any system will not be perfect but at least the system mainly rewards, at the moment, the fans who followed the team away from home during those horrible trips to places like Carlisle, Gillingham on a Tuesday night or a midweek trip to Southend to witness some of the worst performances in living memory.
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This is a great point. It's not surprising that the issue arises now we are doing well, but since the introduction of Loyalty Points, practically anybody has had ample opportunity to build them up to several tens of thousands if they wanted to.
Is it totally fair? Maybe not. But those that have been going consistently have the most points - and that IS fair, no matter what those who are missing out think.
The only thing I can think that could help the kids is to offer them more loyalty points than an adult - maybe twice whatever an adult gets for any given game. Again, this isn't fair either but I personally don't think there is that big a problem in honesty - it's only the big games that won't sell out and in these are the situations where its entirely right to reward the loyal fans with the opportunity to get tickets.
 
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