Are we too nice?

[SwissBlade]

Tonight had lots of examples.

Swansea were rolling around without really being clattered. Sure they’d got free kicks fairly, but they were then going down and play acting. Time wasting?

They also surrounded the ref when a few challenges went in, again nothing too bad.

Swansea were putting us under the cosh and having a go, but we kind of just get on with it.

JOC pulls down McBurnie and gets booked. Norwood has a go and JOC takes it

We give away free kicks, but were not a dirty side and we don’t do all the gamesmanship that the likes of Norwich and Swansea do.

Tonight was crying out for an enforcer to be a bit of a nasty bastard and put in some hard tackles. Get them worried, get in their faces and roll the sleeves up. A Vincent Company, Keane, Viera type.

I love the attitude of the side but having an enforcer whether it’s at centre half or centre midfield, like Morgan used to do can put the shits up sides. We needed McBurnie to know he was going to get hammered whenever he got near the ball.

Not calling for a drop in standards but when we have our backs against the wall like that, we need someone to be banging heads together. I’d love JOC to step up to captaincy, but he seems too nice and quiet.

 

[Stretch]

I think an enforcer type would have just made things worse tonight Swiss. As you saym the ref couldn't wait to get his yellow out so a few successive hard tackes from one player would have seen a red imo.

Agree regarding the gamesmanship though. I suspect that Wilder likes his players honest but a nice touch of shithousery comes in handy from time to time.

 

[BritishSteel]

Tonight had lots of examples.

Swansea were rolling around without really being clattered. Sure they’d got free kicks fairly, but they were then going down and play acting. Time wasting?

They also surrounded the ref when a few challenges went in, again nothing too bad.

Swansea were putting us under the cosh and having a go, but we kind of just get on with it.

JOC pulls down McBurnie and gets booked. Norwood has a go and JOC takes it

We give away free kicks, but were not a dirty side and we don’t do all the gamesmanship that the likes of Norwich and Swansea do.

Tonight was crying out for an enforcer to be a bit of a nasty bastard and put in some hard tackles. Get them worried, get in their faces and roll the sleeves up. A Vincent Company, Keane, Viera type.

I love the attitude of the side but having an enforcer whether it’s at centre half or centre midfield, like Morgan used to do can put the shits up sides. We needed McBurnie to know he was going to get hammered whenever he got near the ball.

Not calling for a drop in standards but when we have our backs against the wall like that, we need someone to be banging heads together. I’d love JOC to step up to captaincy, but he seems too nice and quiet.

Should have pushed Bash into Midfield and gone four at the back . Swansea midfield had so much space and time . Sure Bash clattering into them would have pushed them back a bit. Anyone who can watch the match back should do so. We lost the battle in midfield which is why the cunty one was brought on as Wilder realised this and tried to bypass this towards the end.

 

[Chali 2na]

Should have pushed Bash into Midfield and gone four at the back

We did?

 

[Fulwood Blade]

Tonight had lots of examples.

Swansea were rolling around without really being clattered. Sure they’d got free kicks fairly, but they were then going down and play acting. Time wasting?

They also surrounded the ref when a few challenges went in, again nothing too bad.

Swansea were putting us under the cosh and having a go, but we kind of just get on with it.

JOC pulls down McBurnie and gets booked. Norwood has a go and JOC takes it

We give away free kicks, but were not a dirty side and we don’t do all the gamesmanship that the likes of Norwich and Swansea do.

Tonight was crying out for an enforcer to be a bit of a nasty bastard and put in some hard tackles. Get them worried, get in their faces and roll the sleeves up. A Vincent Company, Keane, Viera type.

I love the attitude of the side but having an enforcer whether it’s at centre half or centre midfield, like Morgan used to do can put the shits up sides. We needed McBurnie to know he was going to get hammered whenever he got near the ball.

Not calling for a drop in standards but when we have our backs against the wall like that, we need someone to be banging heads together. I’d love JOC to step up to captaincy, but he seems too nice and quiet.

yes - at times we need a Chris Morgan type of character.

UTB

 

[Oreyt]

I'm sure it'll be mentioned elsewhere but the biggest problem was not turning chances into goals.

 

[BritishSteel]

We did?

Not sure that we did . Saw a lot of high balls towards the box that bypassed the midfield totally so may well have missed the positional change.

 

[SwissBlade]

I think an enforcer type would have just made things worse tonight Swiss. As you saym the ref couldn't wait to get his yellow out so a few successive hard tackes from one player would have seen a red imo.

Agree regarding the gamesmanship though. I suspect that Wilder likes his players honest but a nice touch of shithousery comes in handy from time to time.

I’m not sure a red card would’ve been that bad for us! But Good hard tackles don’t have to be fouls.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

I'm sure it'll be mentioned elsewhere but the biggest problem was not turning chances into goals.

you are right, it has been mentioned elsewhere and yes we did miss chances - our old habits returned today - lets hope it's just for one game.

UTB

 

[Stretch]

I’m not sure a red card would’ve been that bad for us! But Good hard tackles don’t have to be fouls.

True, he just seemed like one of those refs though, if you know what I mean? Didn't think all of our yellows were completely warranted and another ref might have just given a ticking off.

 

[SwissBlade]

I'm sure it'll be mentioned elsewhere but the biggest problem was not turning chances into goals.

Sure, that’s the simplest comment, we had two great chances first half which we should and would’ve normally buried. However, as the game went on we lacked that bit of bite both at getting into Swansea and taking charge on the pitch

 

[SwissBlade]

True, he just seemed like one of those refs though, if you know what I mean? Didn't think all of our yellows were completely warranted and another ref might have just given a ticking off.

Yeah I agree, it wasn’t one sided that we deserved 4 yellows and they got none.

However, we did seem to fall into their trap a bit.

 

[Guesty]

JOC pulls down McBurnie and gets booked. Norwood has a go and JOC takes it

I think what happened there was that O'Connell was going spare because Norwood had let McBurnie run right past him, meaning O'Connell was left exposed and had to bring McBurnie down himself. Norwood was saying that he couldn't do anything about it, because he'd already been booked. That was my take anyway.

Norwood needs to learn to tackle. His stupid tackle early on meant he was a liability when Swansea broke on us because he could do nothing about it, as in the situation above.

 

[FTPE]

There's was a 10min period where they were determined to get Baldock sent off.
I think we've become more 'streetwise' and 'professional' but Inever want to see us diving about and hounding the ref for cards like some of these wankers do!

 

[SwissBlade]

I think what happened there was that O'Connell was going spare because Norwood had let McBurnie run right past him, meaning O'Connell was left exposed and had to bring McBurnie down himself. Norwood was saying that he couldn't do anything about it, because he'd already been booked. That was my take anyway.

Norwood needs to learn to tackle. His stupid tackle early on meant he was a liability when Swansea broke on us because he could do nothing about it, as in the situation above.

Yeah I appreciate that Norwood couldn’t jump in but he seemed to have a go at JOC and JOC didn’t really do much. He’d been left exposed and got booked because of it.

That’s where you want your centre half a) letting McBurnie have it and b) rollicking the midfield for letting them break through

We basically get soft bookings. They’re all bookings, but if you’re getting booked, it needs to be almost a lucky not to get a red or a take one for the team. Baldock and Norwoods were shit bookings

The irony is that we bypassed Norwood and Dowell after this so it didn’t matter if we had 11 or 9 players

 

[SwissBlade]

There's was a 10min period where they were determined to get Baldock sent off.
I think we've become more 'streetwise' and 'professional' but Inever want to see us diving about and hounding the ref for cards like some of these wankers do!

I hate that teams do it, it’s a premier league/ champions league thing and it’s so easily stopped. Clubs, players and officials could cut it out entirely

However, I don’t think we were that professional and streetwise today. We got Baldock and Norwood booked for daft yellows

 

[Guesty]

Yeah I appreciate that Norwood couldn’t jump in but he seemed to have a go at JOC and JOC didn’t really do much. He’d been left exposed and got booked because of it.

That’s where you want your centre half a) letting McBurnie have it and b) rollicking the midfield for letting them break through

We basically get soft bookings. They’re all bookings, but if you’re getting booked, it needs to be almost a lucky not to get a red or a take one for the team. Baldock and Norwoods were shit bookings

The irony is that we bypassed Norwood and Dowell after this so it didn’t matter if we had 11 or 9 players

I think O'Connell did have a go first, then Norwood shouted back. I'm not sure without watching it again (I'm not watching it again). Either way the situation was Norwood's fault, because of what he did in the first half.

 

[SwissBlade]

I think O'Connell did have a go first, then Norwood shouted back. I'm not sure without watching it again (I'm not watching it again). Either way the situation was Norwood's fault, because of what he did in the first half.

Agreed there!

 

[Chali 2na]

Not sure that we did . Saw a lot of high balls towards the box that bypassed the midfield totally so may well have missed the positional change.

When he brought Clarke on Bash moved up, but you're right - we had already resorted to bypassing the midfield at that point.

 

[BritishSteel]

When he brought Clarke on Bash moved up, but you're right - we had already resorted to bypassing the midfield at that point.

I was following the ball and not the players by the latter stages which is why I may have missed it. MIdfield were off the pace for me today not in terms of passing but in intensity and desire to win the ball. Swansea seemed to want it a little bit more than us and as a result we didn`t get to dictate play like we often do.

Not going to be a popular comment but well done Swansea for getting stuck in. Soon as we had the ball they were snapping at our heels.

 

[Toronto Blade]

He was whistle and card happy until the Swans scored then he relaxed a little.
A weak ref who has to pick up his game that rolling on the floor then jumping up unharmed.
I expect the ref to be yapping in the player's ear about that.
It just slows the game down,while making the ref look like a fool.

 

[Chali 2na]

I was following the ball and not the players by the latter stages which is why I may have missed it. MIdfield were off the pace for me today not in terms of passing but in intensity and desire to win the ball. Swansea seemed to want it a little bit more than us and as a result we didn`t get to dictate play like we often do.

Not going to be a popular comment but well done Swansea for getting stuck in.

Leroy Fer had a fabulous game, unfortunately, dictating the game in the 2nd half - our midfield couldn't really get close to him.

 

[Large Mendonca]

I thought we did snap at Swansea's heels very well in the first half, it just didn't happen in the 2nd. The play acting was the worst bit of the game for me, it will eventually turn me away from football all together, i just can't watch or accept it.

For the record (For Norwood's booking), i don't think he touched the Swansea player.

 

[Hague Blade]

I know what you mean Large Mendonca - just catching up on last night’s MOTD and they showed an absolutely blatant dive by Salah. As clear as you’ll ever see - there’s a good few seconds between the tiny bit of contact and yer man throwing himself to the ground. Makes me sick: it’s cheating, and refs don’t do enough about it.

 

[BritishSteel]

Leroy Fer had a fabulous game, unfortunately, dictating the game in the 2nd half - our midfield couldn't really get close to him.

Fer was their outstanding player for me. He was absolutely everywhere second half.

As Large Mendonca says , first half we were at it and should have been two up.

 

[Chali 2na]

As Large Mendonca says , first half we were at it and should have been two up.

I did feel we'd regret missing the Sharp and McGoldrick chances 1st half, in hindsight it probabaly cost us the game.

Can't moan at either player as they've been great recently, though I'm sure they'll both be dissapointed when they see it back.

 

[Rob86]

We definitely paid for missing the two glorious chances when we were up and at Swansea in the 1st half.

In the 2nd half, maybe credit to their manager, they started to follow Norwood when he dropped deep to get the ball. They also pressed a bit higher in all areas. But with Norwood so deep, the balls were going a bit longer, not sticking up front, they were picking the 2nd ball up and forced us back.

It was more noticeable after they went 1-0 up and we started going back to front. We just had no midfield until they started to retreat and settle for the 1-0.

In hindsight it might have been better to take Norwood off for Lundstram when we started going route 1. But to be fair the meltdown would have been unbelievable, so all things considered, better to just lose 1-0 !

Edit: or move Basham into midfield
Double edit: Lundstram wasn’t on the bench

 

[Houston_Blade]

I don't think we were too nice last night. Every time we tried to tackle in the second half we fouled someone, it was like watching a bunch of over enthusiastic kids at times. They were nicking the ball off us and we were lumbering and fouling. Bizarre.

 

[SwissBlade]

We definitely paid for missing the two glorious chances when we were up and at Swansea in the 1st half.

In the 2nd half, maybe credit to their manager, they started to follow Norwood when he dropped deep to get the ball. They also pressed a bit higher in all areas. But with Norwood so deep, the balls were going a bit longer, not sticking up front, they were picking the 2nd ball up and forced us back.

It was more noticeable after they went 1-0 up and we started going back to front. We just had no midfield until they started to retreat and settle for the 1-0.

In hindsight it might have been better to take Norwood off for Lundstrum when we started going route 1. But to be fair the meltdown would have been unbelievable, so all things considered, better to just lose 1-0 !

Edit: or move Basham into midfield

Lundstram wasn't on the bench last night, but i actually thought when i was writing the OP that we needed a 'Lundstram Leveller' early in the second half. I didn't mention it though as i knew that the thread would get dragged down to "lundstram isn't good enough" etc.

Anyway, you're right, Swansea changed things in the first half, whilst we were overloading them down our left, they quickly reacted and covered it. Same on the right. We saw very few runs from Basham in the way that he normally does.

People have mentioned pace. Normally the speed of our attacks comes down both flanks, not with players that have blistering pace (although Baldock is quick), but in the speed we move the ball down the wings and also overload teams down the flanks. That was quashed in the first half.

Second half, as you say, it seemed that there was a big gap between Norwood (deep), Fleck and Duffy.

Wilder was right, take the chances and we don't give ourselves that problem, however, we didn't take chances and we did give ourselves that problem, so when that happens, what do we do?

I thought bringing Madine on was right, but for McG, as was Dowell, but i think bringing another player into midfield, like Basham would've helped, plus we could've reverted if we needed to

 

[SwissBlade]

I don't think we were too nice last night. Every time we tried to tackle in the second half we fouled someone, it was like watching a bunch of over enthusiastic kids at times. They were nicking the ball off us and we were lumbering and fouling. Bizarre.

But the fouls weren't nasty fouls, the type where all their side pile in. They were persistent or just late and feeble.

What we needed was for a melee like we had v Derby to get us revved up.