Are we still allowed to be negative after a 3-0 win?

[JohnDenver]

Personally I think failure would be to take us up with a squad which can only struggle in the Championship. I would prefer us to go up next year with a quality and confident squad. ( with some pace).

Interesting thought. I want us to go up at the earliest opportunity and without reservation, but I agree we've got players who could be Championship standard in a year or two.

Reed, McNulty, HM2, Scougall, and even Howard have the potential to carry us forward. But I'm buggered if I'm waiting for them.

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

Interesting thought. I want us to go up at the earliest opportunity and without reservation, but I agree we've got players who could be Championship standard in a year or two.

Reed, McNulty, HM2, Scougall, and even Howard have the potential to carry us forward. But I'm buggered if I'm waiting for them.

Totally agree and you are correct John Denver . I want us to go up a the earliest opportunity , without reservation. This season , by hook or by crook is the target .

Woodwardfan . The quality and confident squad will come this season . If we do not have these attributes now , we never will . Also Mr Clough will go through another rebuilding exercise when we are in the championship. Its horses for courses . Build a team to get you out of league 1 , and strengthen in the championship for stability or for the final push to the next league .

The championship is a completely different ball game , with a step up in players and recruitment required , when we get there . Even top league 1 players , do not always cut the mustard higher up , but there are always exceptions to the rule.

UTB

 

[Fulwood Blade]

I have a sense of Dejavu!

Negative Nigel is too insulting, but we are too catious. To give credit, it was less evident yesterday against Plymouth and in the week against MK Plastic, but week after week we continue to fail in the early stages and conquer in the latter stages.

If we are to seriously progress, it's this we've got to tackle.

UTB

You are correct, it does need tackling and it all gets tackled by how a team evolves.

Will state quite clearly that Wolves, Brentford and Rotherham all developed last season as it progressed.

The same could happen to United, it might not, but if anyone heard Clough after the Plymouth game it sounds like there will be signings in January to go straight into the team. It sounded like plural, so as well as a permanent centre half, we might get a couple more.

UTB

 

[Fulwood Blade]

It will stick until we start achieving and end result following our build up. The best way to get through this dodgy spell is to get results. Only the manager and the team can achieve that.

What would be really good is if people "in the know" stopped rabbiting on about Nigels obvious man management style. Lets be honest few to none of us are in the know, this fishwives tittle tattling serves no positive purpose but to fan flames of negativity. Its odd in all my years on forums I am yet to hear someone say "I heard insert persons name here is really positive with the players. Rumours are almost always negative. Why is that? Shit stirring at a guess.

My initial post wasn't a sling at you in particular by the way (you are more positive in view than me but usually constructive) but there is a propensity for one "faction" to label someone with a differing view as "slasher" or the other way up "clapper". Its not new grant you but wouldn't it be a start if we all realised we all actually want the same thing? If we all think other posters are all knobheads and we know it all then you might as well christen this place BladesMad 2 and let the games begin.

I appreciate the way you offer sensible debate and even if you were having a go, all I ask is that you don't make it personal or even worse still revert to sarcasm. One or two on here revert to sarcasm and it is now and always was the lowest form of wit.

It is probably fair to say we do all want the same thing, what I find incredible is at the least little thing the negative vibes come out. If NC had been here lets say 3 years then there might be some reason to it, but after only 12 months it's as though some want him to fail just to prove some sort of "well, it's what we have always done". In a similar way that both Mcnulty and Basham were shit Clough signings after playing one or two games - everyone needs just a bit of time and space.

Anyway...........as usual Up The Blades.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Totally agree and you are correct John Denver . I want us to go up a the earliest opportunity , without reservation. This season , by hook or by crook is the target .

Woodwardfan . The quality and confident squad will come this season . If we do not have these attributes now , we never will . Also Mr Clough will go through another rebuilding exercise when we are in the championship. Its horses for courses . Build a team to get you out of league 1 , and strengthen in the championship for stability or for the final push to the next league .

The championship is a completely different ball game , with a step up in players and recruitment required , when we get there . Even top league 1 players , do not always cut the mustard higher up , but there are always exceptions to the rule.

UTB

I respect both points of view and of course nobody would turn down the chance to go up. However I'd much prefer to go up with a Deane and Agana partnership, or the like, which is an established part of a team used to playing together and winning. Skill and pace is needed in the Championship and it's hard to bed-in too many new players in a new season, as we have realised this season.

That's all that's in my mind. I think the "spine" needs to be in place and I suspect Clough has that in mind re Basham for Doyle, McCarthy and O'Grady. At least he has his keeper in place.

Fingers crossed re Wallace. Surprised he hasn't persevered with McGahey after giving him plenty of playing time early season. He must have made his mind up he couldn't afford the risk, but if the lad is good enough for the Championship nothing would serve him and us better than a full season in league 1. Maybe McNulty can form a partnership with O'Grady but my reservation would be the lack of pace.

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

You are correct, it does need tackling and it all gets tackled by how a team evolves.

Will state quite clearly that Wolves, Brentford and Rotherham all developed last season as it progressed.

The same could happen to United, it might not, but if anyone heard Clough after the Plymouth game it sounds like there will be signings in January to go straight into the team. It sounded like plural, so as well as a permanent centre half, we might get a couple more.

UTB

Money still in the coffers , Mr Clough has been canny . He has evaluated how the summer signings have progressed and will build on this .

The January transfer window , i feel will bring in 3no top quality players , which will slot straight in to a promotion chasing team . The right players at the right time , can give us automatic promotion . The season starts in January , and sorts out the men from the boys .

UTB

 

[Fulwood Blade]

This is the reason a few have questioned Cloughys' credentials as our manager.Now i agree we're moving in the right direction,but it is very slow indeed and i'm not the one that counts and makes all the decisions.

The thing is you talk about McClaren tweaking things,well Cloughy struggled with the same players he brought in himself whereas the wally with the brolly seems to be coping with them very well to say the least,now this leads us to question whether he can cut it when the chance arises,afterall he wasn't at Derby for 6 months or even a year,he was there for 4 years,that's a long time for a manager these days.Will our board and fans want him here for that long?This to me is a very hard but honest question.If he can cut his stubborness a bit then my answer is yes,keep the bloke.

Clough inherited a Derby club in crisis - hadn't they gone down with a really low points total from the prem and had a load of expensive, none performing players? He sorted the club out and had introduced younger, fitter, more committed players - the same sort of issue he faced at BDTBL, only a division lower with all the shit that this league brings. McLaren has gone on record numerous times, praising Clough for the state he found the club in. Sure that took 4 years, but the sad thing is, NC is already getting stick here, even with the progress we have made.

If there is a god you support, go and have a word and ask for some luck a week on Tuesday v Southampton. If we get to the Semis of the League Cup, the club is going to go bonkers again and that may be the catalyst needed to go into January and the 2nd half of the season.

UTB

 

[alcoblade]

Peter Reid hasn't ever had that effect that I can remember.

Other than getting Sunderland promoted to the premiership, twice. And getting a penniless Manchester City to finish 5th in the premiership.

UTB

 

[Bladesway]

Other than getting Sunderland promoted to the premiership, twice. And getting a penniless Manchester City to finish 5th in the premiership.

UTB

Jesus that really does prove your point!

 

[sitwell]

I know a lot will say that boring old clapper is at it again ,but I actually think our squad and many of our players are better suited to the championship. Div 3 is tough, hard in your face league and the more space in the championship will benefit us. The cups suggest we do better against higher league opposition too. Some players will obviously have to be culled but many will make the step up......if required.

 

[Cyprus Blade]

. I think the "spine" needs to be in place and I suspect Clough has that in mind re Basham for Doyle, McCarthy and O'Grady.

Poor Basham - got to cover three positions ( I know what you mean though). The problem is 2 of the 3 you quote are on loan. One of them I hope we don't sign - McCarthy - as I think Basham is a better suited to CH still leaving us with the replacing Doyle problem, which is long overdue as he is having to play so deep now because he doesn't seem to have the legs anymore.

The cups suggest we do better against higher league opposition too.

I'm not sure I agree with the reason for that. Personally I think it its because it suits NC's tactics better if teams come and have a go at us ( which would be more the case in the championship than Div 1) though I think a number of players would struggle to cope with the demands and especially the pace of the championship week in week out - Higdon, Doyle, Porter, Baxter, McNuts, Davies come to mind (there's probably more).

Clough inherited a Derby club in crisis

Very true and he did well there working through the financials and clearing the decks etc - its an area he is strong on, but the Derby example is,a bit of a double edged sword as wizard pointed out, namely that McClaren is doing significantly better than NC did with virtually the same squad which may not reflect so well on NC's tactical and motivational abilities.

 

[Revolution]

I know a lot will say that boring old clapper is at it again ,but I actually think our squad and many of our players are better suited to the championship. Div 3 is tough, hard in your face league and the more space in the championship will benefit us. The cups suggest we do better against higher league opposition too. Some players will obviously have to be culled but many will make the step up......if required.

I don't think this is true. If these were Championship standard players, they would have been picked up by Championship clubs.

Sure, some of them will do fine, but in that league we wouldn't be in the top half. We'd never score any goals at all.

Also, you shouldn't say that on general principal in case it encourages those in charge not to spend this game changing investment.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Poor Basham - got to cover three positions ( I know what you mean though). The problem is 2 of the 3 you quote are on loan. One of them I hope we don't sign - McCarthy - as I think Basham is a better suited to CH still leaving us with the replacing Doyle problem, which is long overdue as he is having to play so deep now because he doesn't seem to have the legs anymore.



I'm not sure I agree with the reason for that. Personally I think it its because it suits NC's tactics better if teams come and have a go at us ( which would be more the case in the championship than Div 1) though I think a number of players would struggle to cope with the demands and especially the pace of the championship week in week out - Higdon, Doyle, Porter, Baxter, McNuts, Davies come to mind (there's probably more).



Very true and he did well there working through the financials and clearing the decks etc - its an area he is strong on, but the Derby example is,a bit of a double edged sword as wizard pointed out, namely that McClaren is doing significantly better than NC did with virtually the same squad which may not reflect so well on NC's tactical and motivational abilities.

Good comments Cyprus.

I do disagree that Doyle's legs have gone though, I think he puts a hell of a shift in week in week out. However if we are building for life at higher levels I see the point of that. Then there's the point of leadership on the pitch, we'd miss Doyle IMO, but I know a lot don't think that.

As for Baxter, he's never had pace and therefore his type of play is adapted accordingly. Whether he could succeed in the Championship would depend mainly on the players around him, I'm sure he's got the ability if the team can afford to play him week in week out.

 

[Woodwardfan]

I don't think this is true. If these were Championship standard players, they would have been picked up by Championship clubs.

Sure, some of them will do fine, but in that league we wouldn't be in the top half. We'd never score any goals at all.

Also, you shouldn't say that on general principal in case it encourages those in charge not to spend this game changing investment.

I think we are safe in the knowledge that nobody from the board will read our utterings!

 

[Cyprus Blade]

seems as if O'Grady might want to stay http://www.thestar.co.uk/sport/sheff-utd/sami-snaps-at-o-grady-1-6992768

so lets see if he can cut the mustard with us.

 

[Blade56]

One swallow does not a summer make......

Next match he will revert to a negative formation geared not to lose rather than to win. We are in for a long boring reign! Long live the king, even though he hasn't got any clothes on

 

[blade too long]

Are we still allowed to be negative after a 3-0 win?
wouldnt expect anything else now , would we

If Doyle lifts the cup in May some will find the negatives

 

[Grecian2000]

If Doyle lifts the cup in May some will find the negatives

Just as a matter of interest, do you ACTUALLY believe that or has it just slipped out of your fingers before you've thought about it?

 

[Woodwardfan]

Wouldn't want to win the Cup and miss out on promotion surely

 

[Grecian2000]

For me, you can have my right arm, both bollocks and all my worldly belongings for us to lift the FA Cup.

 

[Bladesway]

Just as a matter of interest, do you ACTUALLY believe that or has it just slipped out of your fingers before you've thought about it?

Now had it been Porter lifting the cup I would have agreed with BTL.

 

[Woodwardfan]

For me, you can have my right arm, both bollocks and all my worldly belongings for us to lift the FA Cup.

I think your bollocks are safe on this occasion!

 

[Grecian2000]

I have no doubt by the time payment is required you'll have to dig them up (or reconstruct them from ashes).

I fully expect them to go through a promotion or two before that time.

 

[blade too long]

Just as a matter of interest, do you ACTUALLY believe that t?

of course some in here would theyd say great win, but,,,,,,,,, and find something thats less than perfect,
youd think we were 4 points adrift at the bottom now , the way some go on

 

[Kenilworth]

If Doyle lifts the cup in May some will find the negatives

Two things there BTL -
1. depends on whether he takes milk or not and if he puts it in before or after
2. people don't use film any more, it's all digital these days feller.


BTW - I still have 6 rolls of Kodak that have been untouched. 2 x 36 Exps and 4 x 24 exps - any takers?

 

[Grecian2000]

of course some in here would theyd say great win, but,,,,,,,,, and find something thats less than perfect,
youd think we were 4 points adrift at the bottom now , the way some go on

OK. I suppose that's where we differ.

I think we all want exactly the same thing (i.e promotion and trophies). If we get either my experience is that EVERYONE is fucking ecstatic. Never been to a promotion "party" that hasn't been pure jubilation.
What does differ is how we get there. Some want us to improve, play great football and dominate opposition. When we don't they are less than happy and want to see it happen in the next game. Some will even have the temerity to suggest ways of doing this (and sometimes it even conflicts with what the manager does!!!). There are others who can't understand this and think we should put up with anything that is dished up and take the "a win is a win" approach.
Each to their own and all that but I'm afraid I think your idea that once the ultimate goal is reached there would be people "moaning" is way wide of the mark.

FWIW I don't think I'll be alive to ever put the theory to the ultimate test of an FA Cup win so we'll never actually know!

 

[Darthblade]

Totally agree and you are correct John Denver . I want us to go up a the earliest opportunity , without reservation. This season , by hook or by crook is the target .

Woodwardfan . The quality and confident squad will come this season . If we do not have these attributes now , we never will . Also Mr Clough will go through another rebuilding exercise when we are in the championship. Its horses for courses . Build a team to get you out of league 1 , and strengthen in the championship for stability or for the final push to the next league .

The championship is a completely different ball game , with a step up in players and recruitment required , when we get there . Even top league 1 players , do not always cut the mustard higher up , but there are always exceptions to the rule.

UTB

Ah yes !! ...... but of course when we get promoted there will be " Liverpool style investment "
UTB & FTP

 

[Darthblade]

You are correct, it does need tackling and it all gets tackled by how a team evolves.

Will state quite clearly that Wolves, Brentford and Rotherham all developed last season as it progressed.

The same could happen to United, it might not, but if anyone heard Clough after the Plymouth game it sounds like there will be signings in January to go straight into the team. It sounded like plural, so as well as a permanent centre half, we might get a couple more.

UTB

I know that I'm cynical old bas**rd but I will believe this talk of signings in January when I'm stood in the cold at the Preston game and having them introduced to me shortly before we kick off !!

I've heard of these signings so many times over the last 40 years that I treat them like stories about Unicorns ......
UTB & FTP

 

[blade too long]

OK. I suppose that's where we differ.

I think we all want exactly the same thing (i.e promotion and trophies). If we get either my experience is that EVERYONE is fucking ecstatic. Never been to a promotion "party" that hasn't been pure jubilation.
What does differ is how we get there. Some want us to improve, play great football and dominate opposition. When we don't they are less than happy and want to see it happen in the next game. Some will even have the temerity to suggest ways of doing this (and sometimes it even conflicts with what the manager does!!!). There are others who can't understand this and think we should put up with anything that is dished up and take the "a win is a win" approach.
Each to their own and all that but I'm afraid I think your idea that once the ultimate goal is reached there would be people "moaning" is way wide of the mark.

FWIW I don't think I'll be alive to ever put the theory to the ultimate test of an FA Cup win so we'll never actually know!

so why asking if we can moan at 3-0 wins
its very very easy to criticise, pick fault
we win 3-0 and some just cant wait to find any crumb of negative comfort, to add to their agenda that we are doomed to failure
thats where we differ

 

[grafikhaus]

If there is a god you support, go and have a word and ask for some luck a week on Tuesday v Southampton. If we get to the Semis of the League Cup, the club is going to go bonkers again and that may be the catalyst needed to go into January and the 2nd half of the season.

UTB

On the other hand... Just as our cup run last season fired us up the table, a walloping v. Soton could really inflict damage on an already-fragile squad.