Are we financially worse than Hull City & Portsmouth?

[Houso]

Reactionary when after one game, you labelled Kyle Bartley as "the only player to ever come from Arsenal who cannot play football" or something along very similar lines.

 

[Bergen Blade]

I think both Kyles are so talented that if they happened to be here at the moment, they would play every game, it would just be a case of finding the right position for them. I think either could play right midfield, and Naughton could play central midfield. I watched one of Spurs' pre season friendlies and Walker was also outstanding at centre half.

 

[Bergen Blade]

Reactionary when after one game, you labelled Kyle Bartley as "the only player to ever come from Arsenal who cannot play football" or something along very similar lines.

He certainly was excellent on his home debut vs Bristol City, and from recent reports it seems he's back to his best now, which I am sure Lenny will acknowledge if he keeps it up.

 

[super_pig]

bit harsh on the kyles.. all the players above them in the pecking order at spurs are experienced internationals

 

[lenners]

I think both Kyles are so talented that if they happened to be here at the moment, they would play every game, it would just be a case of finding the right position for them. I think either could play right midfield, and Naughton could play central midfield. I watched one of Spurs' pre season friendlies and Walker was also outstanding at centre half.

Either of them would probably be a better bet up front than Chedwyn.

 

[lenners]

Reactionary when after one game, you labelled Kyle Bartley as "the only player to ever come from Arsenal who cannot play football" or something along very similar lines.

He was shyte last season and has improved so far this.
His performances are not going to make Jordan and Calve better players than Walker and Naughton though.

 

[alcoblade]

Either of them would probably be a better bet up front than Chedwyn.

I'm better than our Ched.

UTB

 

[alcoblade]

He was shyte last season and has improved so far this.
His performances are not going to make Jordan and Calve better players than Walker and Naughton though.

I think we're all agreed that the 2 Kyles are the better players. I think most agree that we look to have 2 fairly decent Championship fullbacks. I think most agree that it would be foolish to pay what's required to secure the 2 kyles with our current priorities. I think (let's be fair, we all know) you'll criticise the club, whatever they do, so it's all academic.

UTB

 

[boo radley]

Wasn't Walker taken back by Spurs because we failed to pay certain bonus payments? If that was the case then any decent relationship with Spurs is gone.

 

[Kopped]

I'm impressed with what Speed has done so far.

He did say last week that he was waiting for the right player and that he had a huge list of players being offered to him.

Personally, I think he's waiting for the beginning of October so he has the Loanee's he gets to take him through the January. If he gets them in now their 93 days will expire before the busy Xmas period starts. It also gives him chance to have a look around as well as look at his current squad.

Just my opinion

 

[Houso]

He was shyte last season and has improved so far this.
His performances are not going to make Jordan and Calve better players than Walker and Naughton though.

Never said he had any impact on the way that Jordan and Calve play, just pulled it out as one of your reactionary opinions.

And to be honest, I'd prefer Jordan (an actual left back), at left back to Naughton (an actual right back). On Calve's first two games, he's played as well if not better than Walker too. Obviously, that's not to say at all that he's a better player than Walker.

If anything, I'd take Naughton back for the right wing. But again, it's a square peg for a round hole.

 

[grafikhaus]

In reply to the OP, it would seem that Portsmouth are richer than us (or, more likely are one of those teams, like Wednesday, who the powers-that-be consistently allow to flout the rules).

Andrew Andronikou, the administrator brought in to sort out Pompey pledged a wage limit of £10k per player per week. However, they've just picked up Dave Kitson and Liam Lawrence on £19k and £20k per week respectively.

 

[SteelCity Blade]

In reply to the OP, it would seem that Portsmouth are richer than us (or, more likely are one of those teams, like Wednesday, who the powers-that-be consistently allow to flout the rules).

Andrew Andronikou, the administrator brought in to sort out Pompey pledged a wage limit of £10k per player per week. However, they've just picked up Dave Kitson and Liam Lawrence on £19k and £20k per week respectively.

Its just not as simple as that. Hull and Portsmouth (along with many other clubs) have debt in several multiples greater than ours and they are also in a position where they're making a loss every year.....whereas we are not.

The difference in player salaries is entirely down to parachute payments. This source of income allows them to budget for a competitive championship squad before even touching their other resources. Hence it allows them to sign players other clubs cant afford. Their debt is irrelevent.....they're using the parachute payments almost as a free gift to try and get the club back into the PL and pay debts off that way.

We were no different and tried to do it in the Hendrie, Beattie, Naysmith days. Its not even about flouting the rules.....its more about making up a ridiculous rule that crap relegated teams who have spent too much, get a free leg up the following season and are allowed to sign players they shouldnt be able to afford. It gives them more room for manouvre in the transfer market and they all use it in this way.

So the factual answer is NO Hull and Portsmouth arent better off financially than us. They're just being given a massive helping hand which will run out in two years. In terms of their actual business debt they would give their right arm to be in our position!

 

[lenners]

In reply to the OP, it would seem that Portsmouth are richer than us (or, more likely are one of those teams, like Wednesday, who the powers-that-be consistently allow to flout the rules).

Andrew Andronikou, the administrator brought in to sort out Pompey pledged a wage limit of £10k per player per week. However, they've just picked up Dave Kitson and Liam Lawrence on £19k and £20k per week respectively.

Portsmouth are an extreme example but SUFC have also spent well beyond our means, overspent hugely on players and racked up millions in debt.
The last set of accounts warned we were in trouble and we'd be daft to think we're not on the long, long list of clubs that have been badly run.

 

[lenners]

Never said he had any impact on the way that Jordan and Calve play, just pulled it out as one of your reactionary opinions.

And to be honest, I'd prefer Jordan (an actual left back), at left back to Naughton (an actual right back). On Calve's first two games, he's played as well if not better than Walker too. Obviously, that's not to say at all that he's a better player than Walker.

If anything, I'd take Naughton back for the right wing. But again, it's a square peg for a round hole.

I've only seen Calve play once but it's hysterical to say he played 'as well if not better than Walker', in the 70odd minutes he managed to last on the pitch.
If Jordan plays half as well as Naughton at left back, he'll do fine. It's unrealistic to expect much more.
I hope both of them do really well this season but this re-writing of history is bizarre.
Do you really think a club now in the Champions League and one that's been very close to it (and in it in recent years) wanted Naughton and Walker when they're on a par with or even not as good as Calve and Jordan?

 

[Micalijo]

Portsmouth are an extreme example but SUFC have also spent well beyond our means, overspent hugely on players and racked up millions in debt.
The last set of accounts warned we were in trouble and we'd be daft to think we're not on the long, long list of clubs that have been badly run.

Just remember Len, thank the Lord we are allegedly doing better than Watford and Charlton - that is the true comparison.

The only real problem on the football side of things has been the employment of two of the worst managers in the history of professional football.

 

[boo radley]

Last season Walker cost us games by dwelling on the ball, We forgave him because his overall play was good. He still has a lot to learnand needs games to gather this experience.
As an unknown factor Calve so far has massively contributed to Two wins. If this continues then you have to say that Calve could be a better prospect than Walker?

 

[SteelCity Blade]

Last season Walker cost us games by dwelling on the ball, We forgave him because his overall play was good. He still has a lot to learnand needs games to gather this experience.
As an unknown factor Calve so far has massively contributed to Two wins. If this continues then you have to say that Calve could be a better prospect than Walker?

There is an argument for it Boo but personally I think they're just totally different players.....

Walker is about power, pace and athleticism. Ive tipped him for England caps and I still think he'll get them at some point.

Calve shows more maturity and is technically better IMO. Not by miles but definately a little more accomplished in possession and more composed.

Under Blackwell a player like Walker is ideal as he'll bomb up and down all day and do the simple things very well. Calve is far more suited to the way Speed seems to want to play as he gets into good crossing positions and chooses good moments to overlap the midfield. I think we've found a little gem and he reminds me a little bit of Vas Borbokis.

 

[Houso]

I've only seen Calve play once but it's hysterical to say he played 'as well if not better than Walker', in the 70odd minutes he managed to last on the pitch.
If Jordan plays half as well as Naughton at left back, he'll do fine. It's unrealistic to expect much more.
I hope both of them do really well this season but this re-writing of history is bizarre.
Do you really think a club now in the Champions League and one that's been very close to it (and in it in recent years) wanted Naughton and Walker when they're on a par with or even not as good as Calve and Jordan?

1) I maintain; in the first two games Calve has played as well as Walker did in any of his games last season. I'll not change that view. He's looked as comfortable on the ball, has not dropped any clangers, has scored a stunner, and has set up a goal. Long term, I know this will likely change - Walker is an excellent prospect and yes of course there's a reason why Spurs bought him. I'm not rewriting history at all. Point out where I am.

2) Naughton played a couple of games at left back and did well. I'd still prefer a competent out and out left back there over the course of a season. Is Naughton a better player? By far. Is Jordan going to be more solid over the course of a season in his natural position? I personally believe so yes.

3) Are Naughton and Walker better players than Calve and Jordan? Of course they are. I never said otherwise.

4) When is the Lenny and Walker wedding?

 

[lenners]

Last season Walker cost us games by dwelling on the ball, We forgave him because his overall play was good. He still has a lot to learnand needs games to gather this experience.
As an unknown factor Calve so far has massively contributed to Two wins. If this continues then you have to say that Calve could be a better prospect than Walker?

Aye, he was so poor Spurs didn't recall him when they could. Redknapp's a real know-nowt when it comes to players and he was particularly clueless last season.
I'm looking forward to the millions we're going to get for Calve - or will it be Nancy - because he's so good.

 

[boo radley]

There is an argument for it Boo but personally I think they're just totally different players.....

Walker is about power, pace and athleticism. Ive tipped him for England caps and I still think he'll get them at some point.

Calve shows more maturity and is technically better IMO. Not by miles but definately a little more accomplished in possession and more composed.

Under Blackwell a player like Walker is ideal as he'll bomb up and down all day and do the simple things very well. Calve is far more suited to the way Speed seems to want to play as he gets into good crossing positions and chooses good moments to overlap the midfield. I think we've found a little gem and he reminds me a little bit of Vas Borbokis.

Good points and i hope your right

 

[lenners]

There is an argument for it Boo but personally I think they're just totally different players.....

Walker is about power, pace and athleticism. Ive tipped him for England caps and I still think he'll get them at some point.

Calve shows more maturity and is technically better IMO. Not by miles but definately a little more accomplished in possession and more composed.

Under Blackwell a player like Walker is ideal as he'll bomb up and down all day and do the simple things very well. Calve is far more suited to the way Speed seems to want to play as he gets into good crossing positions and chooses good moments to overlap the midfield. I think we've found a little gem and he reminds me a little bit of Vas Borbokis.

Too right. It's why long-ball Spurs wanted him because he's more suited to their style of play.

 

[Houso]

Aye, he was so poor Spurs didn't recall him when they could. Redknapp's a real know-nowt when it comes to players and he was particularly clueless last season.
I'm looking forward to the millions we're going to get for Calve - or will it be Nancy - because he's so good.

haaaaaaaaa, you're such a big girl's blouse.

(namecalling - infraction)

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Too right. It's why long-ball Spurs wanted him because he's more suited to their style of play.

Re-writting it again Len. Spurs recalled him and he made one start so they hardly pulled him back as soon as they could because of the amazing performances.
You know as well as I do that Spurs recalling him has little to do with wanting to play him.

 

[boo radley]

Aye, he was so poor Spurs didn't recall him when they could. Redknapp's a real know-nowt when it comes to players and he was particularly clueless last season.
I'm looking forward to the millions we're going to get for Calve - or will it be Nancy - because he's so good.

Houso is so right about you trying to put words into peoples mouths, But if YOU view it that Harry didnt recall him because he needed to learn from the mistakes he was making then thats up to you.

 

[SteelCity Blade]

Too right. It's why long-ball Spurs wanted him because he's more suited to their style of play.

What are you talking about len? (picking up on the sarcaism of your post)

Where in that post did I say Walker was suited to long ball tactics? I said he suited Kevin Blackwell because he'll bomb up and down and do the simple things right. Its no secret that we played a percentage game under the previous manager and Walker's skills are very useful in this more direct style because he has a lot of energy and will look for a direct ball whenever necessary.

At no point did I say Walker cant play in a good footballing side and adapt to their way of playing.....you'll also noticed I tipped him for England caps.

But Walker is far more effective in a Kevin Blackwell side than Calve would have been. Calve suits Speed down to the ground because he plays in a certain way. You seem to be very quick to jump all over observation about young Kyle's game. No one said he was a bad player!

 

[boo radley]

What are you talking about len? (picking up on the sarcaism of your post)

Where in that post did I say Walker was suited to long ball tactics? I said he suited Kevin Blackwell because he'll bomb up and down and do the simple things right. Its no secret that we played a percentage game under the previous manager and Walker's skills are very useful in this more direct style because he has a lot of energy and will look for a direct ball whenever necessary.

At no point did I say Walker cant play in a good footballing side and adapt to their way of playing.....you'll also noticed I tipped him for England caps.

But Walker is far more effective in a Kevin Blackwell side than Calve would have been. Calve suits Speed down to the ground because he plays in a certain way. You seem to be very quick to jump all over observation about young Kyle's game. No one said he was a bad player!

You know that dicussion in the other thread that i said ''you may need to read others posting to get these people''. The above about what Len said is what i meant Welcome to the forum.

 

[lenners]

Re-writting it again Len. Spurs recalled him and he made one start so they hardly pulled him back as soon as they could because of the amazing performances.
You know as well as I do that Spurs recalling him has little to do with wanting to play him.

They recalled him but didn't want to play him but then did play him?

 

[lenners]

What are you talking about len? (picking up on the sarcaism of your post)

Where in that post did I say Walker was suited to long ball tactics? I said he suited Kevin Blackwell because he'll bomb up and down and do the simple things right. Its no secret that we played a percentage game under the previous manager and Walker's skills are very useful in this more direct style because he has a lot of energy and will look for a direct ball whenever necessary.

At no point did I say Walker cant play in a good footballing side and adapt to their way of playing.....you'll also noticed I tipped him for England caps.

But Walker is far more effective in a Kevin Blackwell side than Calve would have been. Calve suits Speed down to the ground because he plays in a certain way. You seem to be very quick to jump all over observation about young Kyle's game. No one said he was a bad player!

No, you said Calve was far more suited to the way Speed wants to play.
I'd say that Walker is a better footballer and would be better suited to either way of playing than Calve.
I'm pretty sure which player Speed would want if he could choose.

 

[Deleted member 2102]

They recalled him but didn't want to play him but then did play him?

They didnt recall him to be an integral part of their first team squad as they have a number of international full backs in their squad. We have no need to try and resign them as we do not have a pressing need for any more fullbacks and need to spend our cash in other areas. Its all about managing your resources as best you can on a budget. I guess its not rocket science really. It is reassuring to see that Wenger's assesment of a young player is still superior to Len's though.