Analysing the Derby Defeat

[Blades Analytics]

https://www.uptheblades.com/latest-articles/2018/10/22/analysing-uniteds-defeat-to-derby

Hi all at S2

Frustrating result at the weekend and even more so on a 2nd watch too!

So to vent I analysed the defeat at Derby and tried to find what went so wrong in that 2nd half (other than we weren't very good and they were quite good!)

Have a read and see what you think!

 

[dc_blade]

Very interesting read, I find it persuasive.

Couple of questions:

1. I thought after the match that we'd changed our system a little bit in the second half and that possibly Wilder had told them to sit deeper and try to nullify Derby's threat on the break. Do you think there's anything to that, or do you think it was more a case of responding to Derby's changes?
2. If it was Derby's changes that altered the pattern of the game, was there anything we could've done differently to get back on the front foot?

 

[Topplayersleave]

We got pushed back because we sat back.
They had more of the ball 2nd half because we sat back
We looked less effective in attack because we sat back
We looked less effective in defence because we sat back
It's no use us sitting back because WE CANNOT DEFEND
So why we keep trying to do it is stupid

 

[Sheffsteel]

Haven’t read you report yet but my immediate concern related the Frank Lampard interview on Sky tv for all the world to see.

Basically FL said “Sheff United are a very good team and you can see why they were top”
‘They caused us all kind of problems tactically with the system of overloading the wings with defensive players”
‘In that 1st half I have to admit I was concerned because we just couldn’t get hold of the ball”

‘However we talked at half time and changed a few things around”
‘It’s probably my most satisfying win of the season because we were in trouble against an excellent team”
‘But we turned it around 2nd half, had the better chances and deserved the win”
‘I’m really proud of the players overcoming this difficult test”

My view is that the Derby match probably demonstrated the strengths and weaknesses of our system.
You would think many clubs will be studying that match and hoping to emulate Derby’s 2nd half tactics and display.

 

[Carlton Blade]

We got pushed back because we sat back.
They had more of the ball 2nd half because we sat back
We looked less effective in attack because we sat back
We looked less effective in defence because we sat back
It's no use us sitting back because WE CANNOT DEFEND
So why we keep trying to do it is stupid

I'm on board with this. We are a front foot team. Until we figure out how to be effective on the back foot we'll be susceptible to games like Saturday

 

[wizadry]

Our defenders are better at attacking than they are defending, that’s all you need to know really.

Attack, attack, attack attack attack.

 

[Blades Analytics]

I'm on board with this. We are a front foot team. Until we figure out how to be effective on the back foot we'll be susceptible to games like Saturday

Which is fine and correct but we didn't sit back, we got pushed back and didn't deal with that tactical change from them. We allowed them to come on to us. Whilst I agree its a poor tactic for us as we are certainly a front foot team it was a bit more than us just not going at it again in 2nd half, there were reasons for it that we just didn't deal with at all. That's on players IMO not CW.

You're absolutely right in what you're saying, I think I just wanted to know why we sat back

 

[Sheffsteel]

We got pushed back because we sat back.
They had more of the ball 2nd half because we sat back
We looked less effective in attack because we sat back
We looked less effective in defence because we sat back
It's no use us sitting back because WE CANNOT DEFEND
So why we keep trying to do it is stupid

With respect these type of comments are so football manager ish from people who never played the game.
It’s very easy to say”let’s attack them “, what if the other team decide to attack too.
We almost got caught up field a few times with no defence because we were so attack minded early in the 2nd half.

Mid way through the 2nd half you could see that they were quicker and looked fitter than us, really enjoying the open spaces. We were getting enough possession and Derby were starting to enjoy our positivity. At that point it seemed like United thought, let’s be more careful/ clever and just take the point.

It’s actually a lesson learnt from last season.
We were always too attack minded and always seemed to concede late winners.
This time agree we did seem to settle for the point in the last 20 minutes but to be fair a point would have been a good result.

 

[ekke287]

"Finally, the winning goal screenshot below."

The picture below this paragraph is wrong pal, and used again as the next picture.

 

[N20 Blade]

Haven’t read you report yet but my immediate concern related the Frank Lampard interview on Sky tv for all the world to see.

Basically FL said “Sheff United are a very good team and you can see why they were top”
‘They caused us all kind of problems tactically with the system of overloading the wings with defensive players”
‘In that 1st half I have to admit I was concerned because we just couldn’t get hold of the ball”

‘However we talked at half time and changed a few things around”
‘It’s probably my most satisfying win of the season because we were in trouble against an excellent team”
‘But we turned it around 2nd half, had the better chances and deserved the win”
‘I’m really proud of the players overcoming this difficult test”

My view is that the Derby match probably demonstrated the strengths and weaknesses of our system.
You would think many clubs will be studying that match and hoping to emulate Derby’s 2nd half tactics and display.

Agreed that is the nagging concern albeit only teams with good players and a tactically astute manager will be able execute the plans. I thought at the time Wilder’s pre-match comments about Lampard could be foolish.

 

[itsinyerblood]

https://www.uptheblades.com/latest-articles/2018/10/22/analysing-uniteds-defeat-to-derby

Hi all at S2

Frustrating result at the weekend and even more so on a 2nd watch too!

So to vent I analysed the defeat at Derby and tried to find what went so wrong in that 2nd half (other than we weren't very good and they were quite good!)

Have a read and see what you think!

Hi,

Not much to disagree with there. Frustrating yes, so near yet etc, etc.

A few of us (maybe more) tend to make a noise out of proportion to our numbers. Given the meagre budgets that Wilder continues to receive, add to this a mainly astute recruitment, so why anyone should feel too aggrieved I've no idea. We're doing remarkably well considering, in fact I'd refer to us as punching above our weight.

We're certainly still in with a decent shout of promotion, and yes, who we buy in January may make a huge difference, but we already have a decent squad, so let's not get carried away and suggest that our season is over, because it's not!

 

[Pittsburg Blade]

The second-half reminded me very much of the Bristol C game.
We sat back and invited them to break us down, and they did.

 

[Beans]

"Finally, the winning goal screenshot below."

The picture below this paragraph is wrong pal, and used again as the next picture.

Arse - editor fail. Fixed it now Thanks for pointing that out! You had one job etc

 

[nopigfansintown]

United changed to a flat three in midfield during the game, instead of our usual two plus one. The object was to keep the ball, consolidate the middle of the park and counter attack. It gave space for Mcgoldrick to drop into Duffy's space and over run them in the central areas. This plan failed utterly as we had no pace to break with, and nobody to make the ball stick. The ball bounced of Mcgoldrick the whole game, and Clarke offered very little when he came on. Our ball retention was also uncharacteristically poor, and alarmingly seemed to worsen after the substitutes. Derby got at us down the flanks half a dozen times before the goal came. The goal was coming .Next time, when Duffy tires, we could perhaps push Fleck on and maintain our style. We are limited with formation changes due to our lack of tricky wide players.I think we have to try to do plan A better and find a solution to the Duffy problem.

 

[Rob86]

Blades Analytics do you have any stats on Norwood and Huddlestone ? To me, slightly inebriated I admit, it looked like Norwood ran the show first half and then Huddlestone 2nd half. Suppose it is probably all linked in to positions up the pitch and having more options to play the ball too.

The point by Carlton Blade is bang on, we don’t appear to me to be any threat on the counter. Once we’re pegged back, we generally stay there. Even Derby looked a threat despite our dominance first half but we were unable to worry them in the 2nd half. A couple of good counter attacks might have got them to back off a bit, maybe. It’s all ifs and but’s though. On to Stoke !

 

[Sheffsteel]

Good read that........there’s another factor that should be included regards analysis and that the word CONSISTENCY.

I’m still of the opinion that there’s at least 10 Championship clubs with better individual players/ squads than us.
However the managers of those clubs play different formations, use different players and overload them with instructions.
The constant change in variables means that sometimes these clubs perform really well. sometimes perform poorly.

United are very different, we have a system that we use virtually every single match.
The players have all bought into the system/ tactics so their actions become second nature, we don’t rely on individual flair or a match winner having a good game, the system means players only need to be average for the team to perform well.

Instead of us being like a group of talented individuals we play like a well oiled machine.
I don’t think we’ll ever hit the heights of what the best in this decision can reach because we lack top end quality
BUT the nature of Wilder/ Knills ideas means we are incredibly consistent.
We might not always get a good result but you have to admit as a minimum we play fairly well and turn up every match.

There are a lot of teams with good players in this league but the key to promotion is consistency
Being able to beat the bottom teams is the same 3 points and just as important as beating teams at the top.
So due to our consistently I wouldn’t rule us out yet.

 

[Isaw Joeshaw]

There's a big difference between sitting back and being pushed back , which to me was clearly the case in this instance .

I find it hard to contemplate that many seem to believe that playing much deeper was a deliberate strategy by either the players themselves or , particularly , the manager . Such an approach is not in the DNA of either and the reality is that , for whatever reason or reasons , the Derby players came out with a significantly different approach to the one they had shown for most of the first half and it worked , keeping us penned in our half for long periods and making it extremely difficult for us to break out , particularly after Duffy went off .

The expression ' a game of two halves ' is a bit of an old chestnut but it's been happening since time immemorial and , for reasons which sometimes appear unfathomable , will continue to do so while ever the game is played .

 

[Sheffsteel]

I'm on board with this. We are a front foot team. Until we figure out how to be effective on the back foot we'll be susceptible to games like Saturday

Agree with that.
The problem with high tempo/ high octane is that it’s easier said than done.
Also if we don’t pace ourselves and over do the “playing on the front foot” then we liable to grow tired and be vulnerable towards the end of the 2nd half. Also playing too much high tempo football usually leads to player burn out towards the end of the season.

I think in the Derby game we expanded too much energy 1st half. We tried to attack early 2nd half and the game became very open and stretched. Derby had more pace and were loving the open space, think United sensed the danger so dropped back denying them the space. It looked like some of our players were knackered and had settled for a well earnt good point.

Agree though, that our in game management of slowing down a game, just keeping possession seems to be poor.
We seem to be an “all or nothing” type of team. Expect Wilder is aware of this and will be addressing it.

 

[Blades Analytics]

"Finally, the winning goal screenshot below."

The picture below this paragraph is wrong pal, and used again as the next picture.

Some editing issues lol not quite prefect yet are we lol

 

[Antonb]

A great read, and yes a very frustrating 1st half in a way because of the decision making in the final third. The second half was strange to watch, I , like everyone else in the ground thought we were taking the foot off the gas for a bit, but then was going to kick into another gear. And it never happened!

 

[Carlton Blade]

Which is fine and correct but we didn't sit back, we got pushed back and didn't deal with that tactical change from them. We allowed them to come on to us. Whilst I agree its a poor tactic for us as we are certainly a front foot team it was a bit more than us just not going at it again in 2nd half, there were reasons for it that we just didn't deal with at all. That's on players IMO not CW.

You're absolutely right in what you're saying, I think I just wanted to know why we sat back

The why's and the counters to tactical changes are the next level beyond people like me (know a fair bit about football, never been exposed to high level mayltch day coaching etc). It seemed like before a ball had even been kicked 2nd half we had retreated and given up the initiative. You could even say that it changed as soon as we scored?

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

Cracking read as always!!

Sometimes we fans are guilty of over-complicating things.

I honestly think we put so much of a shift in to get back into the match, it was inevitable we'd tire.

 

[Addison]

We were tactically outmanoeuvred second half. The same happened at Bristol City when we made the same substitutions. We didn't give up ground intentionally, credit Derby for pressing our wing backs and turning them with pace in the second half so causing them to run out of steam.

When teams match us further up the pitch we seem devoid of ideas. The plan usually is to move Basham into midfield and if that doesn't work take Duffy off irrespective of whether he is tired or not. The stats confirm when we went 3-5-1-1 after taking Duffy and Sharp off we conceded even more ground to Derby. The formation doesn't work because we don't have the pace to counter attack. Our tactical changes are becoming a bit obvious.

A better option IMO would have been to keep 3-1-4-2 leaving Duffy and Sharp on and replace the wing backs with an injection of pace down the flanks with Johnson. It may not have worked but we would have had fresh legs out wide restricting them from getting early balls into the box.

 

[Lane Ender]

We got pushed back because we sat back.
They had more of the ball 2nd half because we sat back
We looked less effective in attack because we sat back
We looked less effective in defence because we sat back
It's no use us sitting back because WE CANNOT DEFEND
So why we keep trying to do it is stupid

It’s always on a knife edge when you defend and go deep.
And we ain’t that good at defending set pieces

 

[mattbianco1]

We got pushed back because we sat back.
They had more of the ball 2nd half because we sat back
We looked less effective in attack because we sat back
We looked less effective in defence because we sat back
It's no use us sitting back because WE CANNOT DEFEND
So why we keep trying to do it is stupid

No we didn't. We were pushed back by a very good team. A home team who were lucky to have gone in at HT level. A team that will have no doubt had a rocket up their arses.

We absolutely went for it in that first half and no team (maybe Man city apart) can play with that intensity for 90mins and on another night, we go in with 3 goals.

Had it not been for their ridiculous start to the game, I'm convinced we win that, or at least draw the game.

Every team in the division will have a spell of pressure in every game, the home team is expected to have more than the away team, especially the home team with aspirations of promotion.

If you turn the tables and we're at Bramall Lane and have just had a 45minutes like Derby had in that 1st half, imagine the meltdown on here if we dont pin the opposition back 2nd half.

 

[IAmBlaDE]

Interesting read, thanks for the hard work.

 

[CarlMcBlade]

I guess you have to take your hat off to the man in the sharp suit. Derby were more proactive in the second half and it worked.

 

[Deaneandagana]

Good thread this, I’d like to offer another angle to this debate, namely the teams mental fortitude - we are habitual slow starters, be it after the international break, the start of the 2nd half or after 19 seconds on Saturday.

In addition we’ve seen us have a mad 5 minutes against both PNE & Millwall.

Cut this out & we’ll cruise.

 

[Sheffsteel]

If you turn the tables and we're at Bramall Lane and have just had a 45minutes like Derby had in that 1st half, imagine the meltdown on here if we dont pin the opposition back 2nd half.

That first half display earnt us loads of respect nationally, more and more people are realising we are a top side playing great football.

Rosenior in the Sky studio commented that “Derby are a team that normally control possession, so for Sheffield United to dominate and make Derby look like the away team in the 1st half is really impressive” Frank Lampard also complemented us and said during the 1st half you could see why we were top of the league. They had to dig deep (with some tactical changes) to turn it around.

The Derby fans are normally quite arrogant, last season they said they had much better players than us and expected an easy win.
After the weekend almost all their fans think we are currently one of the best teams in this division, they were also impressed with us 1st half.

Danny Murphy was on Talksport this morning said he’s hardly watched any Championship football this season but decided to watch the Derby v Sheffield United match and he really enjoyed it saying that it was an evenly contested match played by 2 excellent teams playing good attractive football played at a high tempo in the right spirit. Murphy said it was a great advert for Championship football.

I wonder if Paul Parker watched it ha ha.

 

[Houston_Blade]

Great read and one that you should share with the club if they are interested. My view was that Derby pushed us back rather than us sitting back and to echo some of the comments on here I really hope we develop a coping strategy for this kind of play.

If we can’t play “plan a” then we really need a “plan b” that isn’t just swapping defenders for forwards and bringing Duffy off.