Ambitious selection strategy

All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?

A ridiculous statement / target that will never be met not least because for this to work you would have to keep hold of your best young players to build a team that was competitive. We never keep hold of players!

If we are aiming to be the new Crewe this philosophy will work.
 



Don't you think that clubs like Chelsea already pinch players from other academy 1 clubs it goes on all the time,.Any sensible parent would leave there boy with academy s where they have the opportunity to come through,its very difficult at Chelsea but some parents get there head turned by money (real world). United are using the media to tell prospective boy (parents) ;come to us the opportunity to come through is better;;;.
In my opinion that is a good sales pitch.Adkins is always on about a pathway for young players it's up to the club to make it happen.

Exactly.

Adams is on record as saying he came here, as opposed to bench warming higher up (and he had the opportunity), as he there was the immediate prospect of first team football.

It's different for different players. Some will be happy to rake in the money and not play. Others will want to play. Maybe Chelski at al will get the daydreamers and the mercenaries. If we set up right we might get the players.

You see it with junior footballers all the time, some parents will want them to go on to higher Leagues - others will have a different view, or a personal connection, stay, and develop.
 
It's austerity, simple. Not quite as severe as the basis Weir was employed, but severe austerity, plain and simple.

If that's how it is then that's as it is. Like being part of any family, company or club, there are good and bad times, simple.

If there is no money get used to it, simple.

ADKINS is our manager,whether he can be a big enough man or not remains to be seen, simple.

Whether you wish to support him and the club is a simple decision.

I said before that the right way was with Weir in 2012. As it happens we have wasted a load more cash on timewasters since then. Let's get back to basics and build a squad with hunger, pace and mobility FFS., no matter how long it takes.

That's where we appear to be at, thank goodness, I hate watching old average players.
 
Last edited:
It's austerity, simple. Not quite as severe as the basis Weir was employed, but severe austerity, plain and simple.

If that's how it is then that's as it is. Like being part of any family, company or club, there are good and bad times, simple.

If there is no money get used to it, simple.

ADKINS is our manager,whether he can be a big enough man or not remains to be seen, simple.

Whether you wish to support him and the club is a simple decision.

I said before that the right way was with Weir in 2012. As it happens we have wasted a load more cash on timewasters since then. Let's get back to basics and build a squad with hunger, pace and mobility FFS., no matter how long it takes.

That's where we appear to be at, thank goodness, I hate watching old average players.
Austerity is the best word to describe what is happening with us. Good choice of word but not nice
 
This lot would have done a job, 90% home grown plus one purchase of an 18 year old.

Hodgkinson

Badger J Shaw Mallender G Shaw

Woodward Richardson Currie Salmons

Jones Birchenall
 
Quote from the article :- Indicating the criteria will also apply to youth and under-21 team players hoping to progress through the ranks, he said: “Players have to be robust, athletic, quick, ball playing warriors. They have to be good for Sheffield United.”

So how do Hammond and Woolford fit in, what's his brief on those two?
 
A team comprised entirely of home-grown players:-

___________Long

Walker Maguire Jagielka Naughton

Lowton Reed Calvert-Lewin S.Quinn

________Sharp Adams


That's what the academy should be about but as is the norm we are miles off.

Not giving us that raises the question, why have it?
 
This lot would have done a job, 90% home grown plus one purchase of an 18 year old.

Hodgkinson

Badger J Shaw Mallender G Shaw

Woodward Richardson Currie Salmons

Jones Birchenall


Keeping #35 would have led to us having #10 if the directors of old and present had any bollocks.

But we won't learn anything from our major cock ups.

And don't throw agents at me, if we had a policy of keeping talent and if we did there would be no way we would be in the third kids would have a path to 400+ appearances for the first team, they wouldn't need an agent.
If they wanted one they wouldn't be let in.

Come on McC and HRH, grow a pair and try something radical.
 
I wrote this this morning but forgot to post it. :rolleyes:

The article in the Stir on a 50% ex-academy representation in the first team got me thinking a bit (after the initial "this means there is little or no money available for the scale of re-build that is going to be required so we are going the so-called "youth route" again with Adkins as the new David Weir). Coming at it from another angle the Academy is not cheap to run and does not appear to be producing enough players good enough for our first team. I can't help thinking that its cost-effectiveness is coming under more and more scrutiny at Board level and it is going to have to start delivering if it is to continue at Category 2.

Speculation on my part for sure but Adkins has a "positivist" way of speaking that turns a problem into a challenge so, reading between the lines, when Adkins says that academy graduates are at the heart of the recruitment strategy for his player identification model and goes on to say,

“You’ve got to put pressure on yourself. If you have an academy then you’ve got to make sure there is a pathway through and that we are producing good players. We’ve done it before at other clubs and there’s an affinity there. It won’t happen, that 50 per cent target, overnight but it’s a good business model....Players have to be robust, athletic, quick, ball playing warriors. They have to be good for Sheffield United.”

I am reading

We are under financial pressure across the Board. If you have an academy then it has to produce players good enough for the first team as we don't have the funds to buy the players we need and this is now the club's business model and its not working at the moment....the Academy therefore has to start producing players who are robust, athletic, quick, ball playing warriors and good for Sheffield United's first team or there is no point having it.


Consider Watford who made an application for category 1 status a while back but reversed it and opted for category 3 for cost reasons. There are significant cost (and other) implications of the Academy level such as (from a Watford newspaper article at the time) -

1) Category 1 status must have several full time employees that, under Category 3, can be made part-time or removed all together eg sports scientist, coach developer, strength and conditioning coach, performance analyst and head of education.
2) The number of coaches employed to work with players under the age of 16 can be reduced. In a Category 1 training session there has to be at least one coach for every eight players. In Category 3 that ratio is one in ten.
3) The guidelines say a Category 1 Academy should spend £2.3m per year, while a Category 3 club’s recommended spending is only £500,000.
4) Under Category 1, Under-11 players receive an annual total of at least 368 hours of tuition.Under Category 3 however, Under-11s could receive as little as 120 hours a year.
5) The opposition is at a lower level in competitive matches.
6) A talented 16-year-old registered with a Category 1 Academy since Under-9 level could attract £200,000 in compensation. For the same player, a Category 3 club would receive £71,500. This replaced the old tribunal process and effectively the fixed rate can mean reduced returns for clubs on player "finds".
7) Category 1 Academy, clubs are required to have a floodlit grass pitch, an indoor surface available all year round and match analysis suites. These are not a requirement for Category 3. As a Category 3 Academy there would be no need for us to retain the Atlas and Norfolk ground.

I've not found the Cat 2 data yet.

My guess is that, unless the Academy starts to deliver first team players or income to the club sooner rather than later, there may well be an axe taken to its status and scale. Austerity indeed.
 
To make an academy work, you need a ten year time span to set a plan, implement it and remain consistent with it. During that time any amateurish aspects should be ironed out and an ethos established and encouraged. The coaches need to be included in first team work from time to time. The managers need to be involved and updated on who is under consideration. The players need a link to the first team, maybe inviting those that impress to train with them before they are even considered for the squad to give them a taste.

I'd be up for trying to establish a partnership with a Dutch club. Ajax to me are the best example of academy development. I presume they have the pick of Holland due to status but the population can't be much different to Yorkshire. Set a project up, get some respected coaches, listen to them and employ techniques that have worked.

The big problem is that another method of anyone competing with the monied elite was smashed by means of extortion which means that the development of players is no longer rewarded when they get poached. It's disgusting and did not get the press it deserved at the time. The world revolves around 20 clubs and soon I fear no one else will be invited to the party. It might be time to start our own and just get half the country to fuck the premier league off.
 
It's austerity, simple. Not quite as severe as the basis Weir was employed, but severe austerity, plain and simple.

If that's how it is then that's as it is. Like being part of any family, company or club, there are good and bad times, simple.

If there is no money get used to it, simple.

ADKINS is our manager,whether he can be a big enough man or not remains to be seen, simple.

Whether you wish to support him and the club is a simple decision.

I said before that the right way was with Weir in 2012. As it happens we have wasted a load more cash on timewasters since then. Let's get back to basics and build a squad with hunger, pace and mobility FFS., no matter how long it takes.

That's where we appear to be at, thank goodness, I hate watching old average players.

Weir signed 12 players including loans:- Brandy, McGinn, Johns, McGinty, Coady, Taylor, Baxter, Cuvelier, Halls, King, Bunn, Lappin

9 out of the 12 hardly played for us.

I must have somehow missed this era of austerity that was the "right way" with Weir.

I agree with your strategy but not convinced that we have actually ever tried to apply it.
Certainly not in 2012 under Weir.
 
This lot would have done a job, 90% home grown plus one purchase of an 18 year old.

Hodgkinson

Badger J Shaw Mallender G Shaw

Woodward Richardson Currie Salmons

Jones Birchenall

My assessment would that just half as good as those players would be plenty for this league, or maybe less even.
 
Weir signed 12 players including loans:- Brandy, McGinn, Johns, McGinty, Coady, Taylor, Baxter, Cuvelier, Halls, King, Bunn, Lappin

9 out of the 12 hardly played for us.

I must have somehow missed this era of austerity that was the "right way" with Weir.

I agree with your strategy but not convinced that we have actually ever tried to apply it.
Certainly not in 2012 under Weir.


There was a bit of cash available from sales and release of high earners but his brief was to sign young, inexpensive players to supplement all the talent we had in our successful recent youth team. I'm pretty sure this '50pc Academy' products has been quoted by KM before.

Baxter came out of the McDonald cash with some to spare. Cuvellier was an emergency buy following the bad start. The rest were cheap, young and not so cheerfull.
 
There was a bit of cash available from sales and release of high earners but his brief was to sign young, inexpensive players to supplement all the talent we had in our successful recent youth team. I'm pretty sure this '50pc Academy' products has been quoted by KM before.

Baxter came out of the McDonald cash with some to spare. Cuvellier was an emergency buy following the bad start. The rest were cheap, young and not so cheerfull.

Yes, I agree that McCabe talked about a 50% Academy team but the only ones that Weir played regularly were Long and Maguire. He didn't even play most of the the "young, hungry" players signed by him or possibly for him (Johns, Bunn, McGinty).

If anything he went against that brief more than Clough who played Maguire, Reed and McGahey fairly regularly plus blooding Adams, K.Wallace, Khan, Dimaio and Calvert-Lewin.

The bottom line is that a 50% Academy team will never be good enough to get us up because we sell the best of them off before the next batch have time to develop and come through.
 



Interesting article by Shield in the Stir - http://www.thestar.co.uk/sport/foot...olumn-this-is-what-needs-to-be-done-1-7727537

"So at what point does it dawn on people that the problem might not rest with whoever is in charge but, actually, is much more ingrained than that? The only change United need to effect is systemic. Decide what they want to be and, come what may, stick to it. Establish permanent scouting, recruitment and administrative systems which remain in place regardless of who is at the helm. Not alter depending on which modus-operandi or individual happens to be in vogue at the time. Ensure Adkins and his eventual successors bend to fit them not the other way around.

Yes, there are improvements which can be made right now that might lead to more consistently positive results. Including, as far as this column is concerned, not allowing opponents to impose their will during the opening exchanges of fixtures, showing greater aggression and getting more out of flair players" ( I avoided putting who Shield thinks the flair players are in case Sitters choked on his morning coffee :D).

The question for me (though I largely agree with the idea of a systemic change as described) is, knowing how Shield never says anything which might jeopardise his relationship with the club's hierarchy, who put him up to saying it and is this what the Board intend to do?

What he doesn't say is about recruiting Managers who fit the club's chosen "system" - though he does refer to the stylistic changes in the various Managers over the last decade or so earlier in the article (Long has averaged a different manager every 16 games he has played for us).

Different article, same publication - nice quote from Sean O'Driscoll

“When somebody comes in and says they can get you in the Premier League and you haven’t got to spend any money, if you believe that then you’re stupid.”
 
Last edited:
Rather than cast around for miracle cures, why doesn't Adkins realise what's under his nose? I was looking at some YouTube vids. yesterday about the non-too-distant past. Flynn two goals at Villa. Che, both goals against Spurs. Scougall, goal at Wembley. Have these three become poor players overnight? Or aren't they Adkins mates from the past?
 
If Adkins really does think this then we are doomed to stay here for the next 10 years.
 
(C+Ped from another thread/)

I don't think it's naive at all. He's had that ambition at his previous clubs. That gets a mention in the interview.

Before we go about presuming failure let's consider the possibilities:
  • it's aspirational
  • it establishes a club-wide philosophy for player development and recruitment
  • players in the junior teams will be playing a certain way all the way up to the first team
  • the attraction of first team football will appeal to some who might otherwise bench warm in Division 1
  • it doesn't mean I'll play bad Academy players over good signings
  • on some days we already have 3 Academy players in the team
On the flip side there are the new rules, which I don't know the details of, but which basically mean Academies can poach your players for token compensation.

He won't have worked in that environment. Doesn't mean it can't be done though.

It'd be interesting to see what his track record is at Scunthorpe in particular did they actually play 50% "kids" - obviously Southampton are an exception and have been for years apparently so that's not representative.
 
Yes, I agree that McCabe talked about a 50% Academy team but the only ones that Weir played regularly were Long and Maguire. He didn't even play most of the the "young, hungry" players signed by him or possibly for him (Johns, Bunn, McGinty).

If anything he went against that brief more than Clough who played Maguire, Reed and McGahey fairly regularly plus blooding Adams, K.Wallace, Khan, Dimaio and Calvert-Lewin.

The bottom line is that a 50% Academy team will never be good enough to get us up because we sell the best of them off before the next batch have time to develop and come through.


Weir was only here 5 minutes when all is said and done.

I venture to suggest that we would be no worse off than we are now and we would have saved about 12m pounds as Weirs brief was to balance the budget. We would also have a squad over 3 years in the making;, young and hungry.

All academic of course.
 
Weir was only here 5 minutes when all is said and done.

I venture to suggest that we would be no worse off than we are now and we would have saved about 12m pounds as Weirs brief was to balance the budget. We would also have a squad over 3 years in the making;, young and hungry.

All academic of course.

Woody , agree with you but one thing stands out more and more theses days, good coaches do not make good managers . Derby , Rotherham have again just learnt that lesson.

UTB
 
it would help if he stopped releasing them all then
players have to be robust, athletic, quick, ball playing warriors?? that's a laugh.. so how come coutts(robust), athletic (jose), quick, (hammond) get in the team ?
Because they are, sadly, better than the alternatives.

Adkins is talking about what he wants, not what he has.

UTB
 
“Players have to be robust, athletic, quick, ball playing warriors. They have to be good for Sheffield United.”

I think NA needs to stop talking about pipe dreams and the long term future and concentrate on winning some games or he won't be here to see the kids come through.

I think NA needs to stop talking.
 
It's austerity, of course it is, but watching young, hungry talent is better than watching old losers any day of the week.

Reed is a really good prospect and Adams can be. Lewin could be special too, but it's early days for him. Baxter's still young too but could end up the orchestrater. Then there's K.Wallace to add. Long? He's a veteran now!!

Kids never win anything?? Old plodders certainly don't!!
 
Don't you think that clubs like Chelsea already pinch players from other academy 1 clubs it goes on all the time,.Any sensible parent would leave there boy with academy s where they have the opportunity to come through,its very difficult at Chelsea but some parents get there head turned by money (real world). United are using the media to tell prospective boy (parents) ;come to us the opportunity to come through is better;;;.
In my opinion that is a good sales pitch.Adkins is always on about a pathway for young players it's up to the club to make it happen.
Or not, and just sign some good players for once.

We've had too big a squad that doesn't help youth progress. That doesn't alter the fact that most of the youngsters are simply not good enough.

UTB
 

All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?

All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?

Back
Top Bottom