A Touch of Realism

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Mad Mick

Mad Mick

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I'm amazed at how well we have done, and long may it continue. I did post before the season started that we may surprise quite a few teams and make the play-offs. It's been a roller coaster but we are now in with a great chance. However after watching us play at Ipswich and last night, both on IFollow I am a little concerned. I felt we were poor in the first half against Ipswich, but much better second half. I thought last night we were better but even though a goal up at half time, not convincing. Second half we were better, but we seem to have lost the cutting edge and swagger of early season. Of course there are a number of reasons for this, losing key players and trying to fit in new ones in etc.

My main concern is the forwards are not scoring. We never seem to do much with set pieces, and cross's are often lamentable. Last night there were some pass's that were just a gnats off being superb. So maybe we need some luck. We did give the ball away a lot as we did against Ipswich. We have Forest on Saturday and if we can win that convincingly I'll be over the moon. If we do get to the play-offs then anything can happen, I just hope we don't have to play Fulham :)
 



At the game last night, at half time i was browsing the match day programme, and the thing that really stands out is relatively speaking how "cheap" and "lower league" our squad is, apart from the few obvious exceptions. Yet first season back in the championship and we are all talking about 80 points for a play off place, and discussing if it can be achieved, or by how many points we will fall short. It really does bring a smile to your face. It is truly remarkable what Wilder has achieved. Long may it continue.:)
 
I think we have been a bit off the boil in general since Christmas, despite some good results in that period. But I have to say at times last night [and I stress at times] I thought we looked as good as we ever have under Wilder. The way we started that second half it looked like it could turn into a massacre but then suddenly we dropped off and let them get into the game. It took wonderboy coming on to change things around, but it's nice to have that armoury available.

Otherwise, agree with the points you make. The strikers have collectively hit a barren patch, although Sharp has been in the goals as a Unit they are less prolific. As for our set pieces and crosses, yes I think they still need some work but they have steadily looked better over time.

It could go to the wire whether or not we grab 6th. No disaster if we don't but I would love to see us have a go at the playoffs with Wilder. Ideally I would like Villa to just miss out on autos and finish 3rd, somewhat deflated. Of all the top 4 they are the team that we have gone toe to toe with and matched the most. We were unlucky not to get something from them at the Lane.

Bring it on!
 
rompodebailey said:
At the game last night, at half time i was browsing the match day programme, and the thing that really stands out is relatively speaking how "cheap" and "lower league" our squad is, apart from the few obvious exceptions. Yet first season back in the championship and we are all talking about 80 points for a play off place, and discussing if it can be achieved, or by how many points we will fall short. It really does bring a smile to your face. It is truly remarkable what Wilder has achieved. Long may it continue.:)
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Yes but my red and white specs see that we have the best player in this leauge .
 
I initially predicted play offs and upgraded that to autos until Coutts got injured.

To finish 7 would be a great achievement. My only goal now is to finish above the likes of Brentford, Preston and Bristol City and my won't have an ounce of disappointment.

Our next target then is to finish above Derby or Boro and it really would be beyond our more realistic expectations.

The return of Brooks and a now rested Clarke (injured) could give us some fresh enthusiasm going into the last month. We have to Win our home games though, all of them.
 
As it stands the top 6 have all spent a fair amount of money over the last couple of seasons in a bid from promotion. There are only 3 places up for grabs so I'm guessing there will be one or two nervous chairmen and managers who know they "need" to be promoted sooner rather than later.
I would say the next 5 in the table, including ourselves, all have a decent chance of grabbing a play off spot...maybe two are there for the taking....and of those five only Bristol City have really spent. The pressure is not on us,Millwall, Brentford or Preston which may work to the advantage of any of us, but on the likes of Derby and Boro and to a lesser extent probably Bristol City.
I think we are just in the right spot with nine games to go. Expectation is not on us and it's all still in our own hands to come good, sneak a play off spot and confound the critics.
Wherever we finish it's been a terrific season to say where we've come from over the last six years.
 
Think I predicted 10th/12th ( ? :) ) so anything above that is great and the play off's would be dreamland!
 
I think we sometimes lose sight of the fact that not only are we playing very good teams pretty much every week (Burton are rock bottom and could have scored 2 or 3 last night), but we are also coming up against good, seasoned and wily managers. I don't think its just a case of us having dropped off a bit since our great start, you also need to give credit to opposing managers who have worked out ways to counter our style of play, and take it as a complement that they have felt the need to so do.

Of course the loss of our best midfielder, and the introduction of new players in January, will certainly have interrupted rhythm to some degree, but if we do get into the play offs from here, it will inevitably be on the back of a good run of form and with a squad which has knitted well. If we fall short, it won't be for the lack of trying and we will still be able to look back on a good season with some outstanding moments. 13 points from 15 (so far) off our friends to the near north for a start! Many reasons for optimism, and few for pessimism as things stand.
 
Agree.

Recently we just look like a decent/ average to above average Championship side.
We seem to have gone slightly more long ball and don’t quite play the midfield Barcelonesque possession football anymore.

We rely so much on Duffy and Brooks to create some magic, those 2 hold the key to us reaching the play-offs.
Will be interesting to see if we revert back to our Barcelonesque passing game when Coutts come back.
 
Perfectly explained Mad Mick we just don't seem as sharp anymore, the snappy short passing forward has been replaced with longer balls but a couple of things that occurred to me last night:
We need to stick with our way and wear teams down as we did last season, we always felt that the breakthrough would come whether in the first or last 5 minutes.
For the first time I can remember we had a lay off on the edge of the box that Evans managed to get a decent effort off with, more of the same guys.
We had a free kick on target, keep at it, a bit lower a bit higher and these are goals.
 
Obviously we want to be entertained but we now have 9 games left and quite honestly I'm not too concerned about performances. It's all about results.

Earlier in the season we played better than many teams (example Forest at their ground) and came away with nothing.

Even if the opposition have 90% possession and we come away with a crappy 1-0 win that will suit me.
 
Mad Mick - I’m going to piggy back on your thread if you don’t mind, as the title seemed on point when I looked at the league table. After last night, we’re in seventh place - and all the teams above us have scored more than us and conceded fewer. If goals for and against are an indicator, then we’re pretty much exactly where we should be - we don’t score quite enough, and we concede a few too many, to have really pushed on into the play off places.
 
I agree it has (already) been a terrific season.

If I was being hyper-critical I would say the January reinforcements haven't really had the desired effect (Evans, the least exciting on paper, the best of the bunch from what we've seen so far). But I will reserve judgement on Holmes and Leonard until we have seen what they can do after a full pre-season with the rest of the squad learning the Wilder/Knill way. With hindsight (though several said the same at the time) we should probably have spent more last summer, and as a result not have had to recruit four new players in January.
 



Hague Blade said:
Mad Mick - I’m going to piggy back on your thread if you don’t mind, as the title seemed on point when I looked at the league table. After last night, we’re in seventh place - and all the teams above us have scored more than us and conceded fewer. If goals for and against are an indicator, then we’re pretty much exactly where we should be - we don’t score quite enough, and we concede a few too many, to have really pushed on into the play off places.
Click to expand...
Yes, the top 6 look very strong. We need a great finish to overhaul either Derby or Boro.

The squad building done by Wilder really has been immense though. Of the 26 first team squad members

4 were inherited from a mid table league 1 team (Basham, Coutts, Sharp and Freeman)
2 are youth team entrants (Brooks, Eastwood)
2 were signed from League 2 (Stevens and Wright)
10 were signed from League 1 (Evens(C), Carruthers, Holmes, Duffy, Evans (L), Leonard, Clarke, Lundstram, Baldock, Fleck)
1 from Scotland (Heneghan)
5 were signed from Championship reserve teams (Donaldson, Stearman, Moore, Lafferty and O'Connell)
2 on loan from prem (and of those Blackman only has league 2 experience)
 
Mad Mick said:
I'm amazed at how well we have done, and long may it continue. I did post before the season started that we may surprise quite a few teams and make the play-offs. It's been a roller coaster but we are now in with a great chance. However after watching us play at Ipswich and last night, both on IFollow I am a little concerned. I felt we were poor in the first half against Ipswich, but much better second half. I thought last night we were better but even though a goal up at half time, not convincing. Second half we were better, but we seem to have lost the cutting edge and swagger of early season. Of course there are a number of reasons for this, losing key players and trying to fit in new ones in etc.

My main concern is the forwards are not scoring. We never seem to do much with set pieces, and cross's are often lamentable. Last night there were some pass's that were just a gnats off being superb. So maybe we need some luck. We did give the ball away a lot as we did against Ipswich. We have Forest on Saturday and if we can win that convincingly I'll be over the moon. If we do get to the play-offs then anything can happen, I just hope we don't have to play Fulham :)
Click to expand...

Spot on that assessment. I think the passing has deteriorated mainly, if we can just calm down a bit and keep possession better, like we were doing early season, then we will fare much better. Notice last night after we went two up they calmed down and the passing improved enormously.
 
blade67 said:
Yes, the top 6 look very strong. We need a great finish to overhaul either Derby or Boro.

The squad building done by Wilder really has been immense though. Of the 26 first team squad members

4 were inherited from a mid table league 1 team (Basham, Coutts, Sharp and Freeman)
2 are youth team entrants (Brooks, Eastwood)
2 were signed from League 2 (Stevens and Wright)
10 were signed from League 1 (Evens(C), Carruthers, Holmes, Duffy, Evans (L), Leonard, Clarke, Lundstram, Baldock, Fleck)
1 from Scotland (Heneghan)
5 were signed from Championship reserve teams (Donaldson, Stearman, Moore, Lafferty and O'Connell)
2 on loan from prem (and of those Blackman only has league 2 experience)
Click to expand...

Slight correction Sharp came from Leeds of the championship.
 
I think the most realistic thing to say is that many games in this league are very tight and closely matched, and that on their day almost any team can win vs any other.

I'd say on average we're a top 10 side who, if all goes right in a given game, can compete to a level at the top end of the playoffs. We just let our consistency slide in the middle of the season. Now we're doing better, but you have to be clinical at both ends of the pitch, something we lacked vs Ipswich.
 
ghandi said:
Slight correction Sharp came from Leeds of the championship.
Click to expand...
yes he did but Wilder inherited him. Probably the 1 player that Wilder hasn't improved as 20 goals under Madkins was probably as good a performance as the 30 odd under Wilder. My point being that Wilder didn't sign him from Leeds just as he didn't sign Coutts from Derby or Basham from Bolton.
 
tomtheblade said:
I think the most realistic thing to say is that many games in this league are very tight and closely matched, and that on their day almost any team can win vs any other.

I'd say on average we're a top 10 side who, if all goes right in a given game, can compete to a level at the top end of the playoffs. We just let our consistency slide in the middle of the season. Now we're doing better, but you have to be clinical at both ends of the pitch, something we lacked vs Ipswich.
Click to expand...
That is so very true of this league and one thing that hasn't changed since we dropped out of it several years ago. A good keeper and a couple of decent goal scorers can be the difference between fighting to get into the play offs and scrapping against relegation. For us that has been Blackman and Clarke and Sharp who are probably worth 25 points between them this year
 
blade67 said:
yes he did but Wilder inherited him. Probably the 1 player that Wilder hasn't improved as 20 goals under Madkins was probably as good a performance as the 30 odd under Wilder. My point being that Wilder didn't sign him from Leeds just as he didn't sign Coutts from Derby or Basham from Bolton.
Click to expand...
I see I thought you were refering to players inherited from League one (not signed by Wilder) not the ones Wilder inherited that were in League one when he became manager. Apologies.
 
Last season was a great one, promotion, and this one has been great. We have had ups and downs, some great games, and are still in the mix.

Every season, one team seems to come up on the rails (to use racing parlance) and it could be us, if we get into the mix and make the play offs, who knows what could happen, I wouldn't put it past CW and AK to rev this team up, should we get to the final.
 
From what I understand Wilders remit was to keep us in the Championship this season with a comparatively small investment, job done. My question is if we were only to consolidate this season were we to expect massive investment next season as new funds come available? Or perhaps by some gargantuan effort by our mostly lower league players, were we to be promoted to the Premiership can we afford to cherry pick the best of the Championship players as we did with League 1 and 2 this season to try to keep us in the Premiership. Will we ever see a squad of players at the Lane who's average weekly wage is 30 or 40 thousand pounds under the current regime? Can we aspire to be, well Burnley perhaps? Having said that Forest at home Saturday COME ON...fill up my senses :-)
 
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